Salary Cap: Salary Cap Thread - Hey.. what are your thoughts on Sheahan?

[Gurglesons]

I'd say Washington is set, Vegas also, and probably a few other teams. But lets not forget nearly half the teams in the league aren't gonna make the playoffs, and many of those aren't even in contention now. So their motivation would be to look to shore up their roster via picks, young players and prospects for coming years.

How is Washington set? How is Vegas set?

You don’t think the caps would move Beagle to wing or Vegas would replace Bellemare?

Plenty of teams will be in contention over the next few weeks and teams can never have enough centers.

 

[Ryder71]

How is Washington set? How is Vegas set?

You don’t think the caps would move Beagle to wing or Vegas would replace Bellemare?

Plenty of teams will be in contention over the next few weeks and teams can never have enough centers.

Nashville also has a boatload of centers, as does STL, but to your point, Ellers doing a fine job in WAS and Veg from what I know is very happy with their center core and of course their team in general. I'm just saying that as more teams drop out, more players of that ilk will become available thus bringing the cost down.

 

[Tom Hanks]

How is Washington set? How is Vegas set?

You don’t think the caps would move Beagle to wing or Vegas would replace Bellemare?

Plenty of teams will be in contention over the next few weeks and teams can never have enough centers.

Right Washington aren’t set at centre: Kuz, Backstrom, Eller and Beagle.

 

[Saints11]

If the Rangers are moving out McDonough, maybe the Pens can ship them Hunwick plus for Grabner. Personally, I’d move both Hunwick and Cole out. It is a plus if LA moves Fantenberg back, if not, we still have Pedan, Bengtsson, Corrado, Tinordi, Trotman, Czuczman, Summers....all who could fit as a 7th/8th D.

 

[Gurglesons]

Right Washington aren’t set at centre: Kuz, Backstrom, Eller and Beagle.

That sure has gotten them past the second round the last two years!

 

[Ryder71]

That sure has gotten them past the second round the last two years!

That doesn't necessarily equate to them not having a good group of centers, that could just mean that ours were better.

 

[Gurglesons]

If the Rangers are moving out McDonough, maybe the Pens can ship them Hunwick plus for Grabner. Personally, I’d move both Hunwick and Cole out. It is a plus if LA moves Fantenberg back, if not, we still have Pedan, Bengtsson, Corrado, Tinordi, Trotman, Czuczman, Summers....all who could fit as a 7th/8th D.

I know Grabs has played LW in the past, but a Grabner - Sheahan - Rust on our fourth is just stuppppid. Plus he PKs.

 

[Gurglesons]

That doesn't necessarily equate to them not having a good group of centers, that could just mean that ours were better.

Every team is trying to get better at center. If someone like Pageau is on the market plently of teams will be interest especially because he has experience as wing.

If you’re taking Letestu or someone similar we could probably get away with him for a 2nd or 3rd.

This is the summer argument all over again.

 

[Ryder71]

Every team is trying to get better at center. If someone like Pageau is on the market plently of teams will be interest especially because he has experience as wing.

If you’re taking Letestu or someone similar we could probably get away with him for a 2nd or 3rd.

This is the summer argument all over again.

No, not every team is trying to get better at center. Some may try to improve their defense, or their top six on wing, or with a good back up goalie, not every team is specifically looking at 3C. And again teams that are sellers are likely looking for young players, prospects and draft picks as their season is largely over.

 

[Gurglesons]

No, not every team is trying to get better at center. Some may try to improve their defense, or their top six on wing, or a good back up goalie, not every team is specifically looking at 3C. And again teams that are sellers are likely looking for young players, prospects and draft picks as their season is largely over.

Okay, let’s just agree to disagree.

Still don’t get how fans of arguably the best center depth we’ve seen over the past ten years consistently overlook how important and costly it is..

 

[Ryder71]

Okay, let’s just agree to disagree.

Still don’t get how fans of arguably the best center depth we’ve seen over the past ten years consistently overlook how important and costly it is..

I'm not saying it's not costly. And for this team I know it's vitally important they get such a player. I'm just saying that not every team has the same needs. For example what does Arizona or Buffalo need a 3C for this season? They're not gonna put forth assets to acquire such a player. Their goal is to build for the future. So, no, we're not competing to try and acquire a 3C against 31 other teams. Again every team will have a different priority as to what they're looking for. Ours of course is 3C. NSH, ARI, BUF, VEG,NJ, STL, TB, OTT, WAS etc aren't looking for that necessarily.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not saying it's not costly. I'm just saying that not every team has the same needs. For example what does Arizona or Buffalo need a 3C this season? They're not gonna put forth assets to acquire such a player. Their goal is to build for the future. So, no, we're not competing to try and acquire a 3C against 31 other teams. Again every team will have a different priority as to what they're looking for. Ours of course is 3C. NSH, ARI, BUF, VEG,NJ, STL, TB, OTT, WAS etc aren't looking for that necessarily.

If a player has term why would Arizona, Buffalo, Vegas, New Jersey, St. Louis, Tampa, or Washington not make a move?

Center is a huge positional hole for everyone. Eller is a UFA.

Go look at the centers for UFA. If centers are available teams will be making moves. The UFAs that would be available this year are on contenders.

 

[Ryder71]

If a player has term why would Arizona, Buffalo, Vegas, New Jersey, St. Louis, Tampa, or Washington not make a move?

Center is a huge positional hole for everyone. Eller is a UFA.

Go look at the centers for UFA. If centers are available teams will be making moves.

Because not every team is in the same mindset or cycle as to what other teams may be. Why would Washington spend assets on a center when currently they're solid there? If they need to add a center why wouldn't they wait till the summer? Or why wouldn't a team like Arizona due the same? WAS for this season is set there. If they want to secure 3c they could just re up Eller.

For Arizona it really doesn't move the needle much one way or the other to make a move such as that at this time. We're not in the same situation as either of those teams. Which brings me back to my original point. We're probably in among a handful of teams that desperately needs a 3C caliber player. And my belief is more such players will be made available as more teams assess their chances this year and beyond.

 

[Jacob]

If the Rangers are moving out McDonough, maybe the Pens can ship them Hunwick plus for Grabner. Personally, I’d move both Hunwick and Cole out. It is a plus if LA moves Fantenberg back, if not, we still have Pedan, Bengtsson, Corrado, Tinordi, Trotman, Czuczman, Summers....all who could fit as a 7th/8th D.

Maybe if we throw in Rowney they’ll throw in J.T. Miller.

 

[Gurglesons]

Because not every team is in the same mindset or cycle as to what other teams may be. Why would Washington spend assets on a center when currently they're solid there? If they need to add a center why wouldn't they wait till the summer? Or why wouldn't a team like Arizona due the same? WAS for this season is set there. If they want to secure 3c they could just re up Eller.

For Arizona it really doesn't move the needle much one way or the other to make a move such as that at this time. We're not in the same situation as either of those teams. Which brings me back to my original point. We're probably in among a handful of teams that desperately needs a 3C caliber player. And my belief is more such players will be made available as more teams assess their chances this year and beyond.

I’ve disagreed with this point all summer and I think plenty of teams that see an RFA or on contract center available would make a pitch. Ryan or Pleks may not see as much interest, but you are certainly going to be bidding with other teams.

 

[Ryder71]

I’ve disagreed with this point all summer and I think plenty of teams that see an RFA or on contract center available would make a pitch. Ryan or Pleks may not see as much interest, but you are certainly going to be bidding with other teams.

We're gonna be bidding against other teams for sure. Where we disagree is in just how many teams that might be. Also just how many 3C caliber players might be available.

 

[WayneSid9987]

The C siuation is sorta similar to JR not having Letang this time last year with the added caveat that he's gonna eventually get a longer term guy at the 3C position.

He made a play for Shattenkirk but settled for Hainsey+Streit.
He'll make plays for the best guys available and either gets them or settles for something underneath the top guys.

 

[Gurglesons]

We're gonna be bidding against other teams for sure. Where we disagree is in just how many teams that might be. Also just how many 3C caliber players might be available.

Please show me the abundance of centers that are moved every year. It is a position that isn’t traded.

It is like the people saying you can move Letang and replace him by committee ignoring the fact what top two defensemen cost.

 

[Ryder71]

Please show me the abundance of centers that are moved every year. It is a position that isn’t traded.

It is like the people saying you can move Letang and replace him by committee ignoring the fact what top two defensemen cost.

I didn't say there's an abundance, I just don't see it as bleak as you do. With the names bantered about there's probably five or six players that fit that category and another two or three will likely become available by the deadline. My focus and concern is solely predicated on this teams post season run. Ideally, I'd prefer a longer term solution, but if we can get a rental that's fine by me if he can be a consistent contributor through the spring.

 

[Riptide]

If we trade Cole for space, I think we're expecting a 2nd in terms of pick. Maybe 2nd + 3rd or something. I know some people refer to 2 2nds, but I see him as Hainsey and that was a 2nd.

Would you rather have Fantaburger/someone like him or a 2nd? I like mah picks as much (more) as the next person but, as we all know, our picks now are gonna be doing damn well to contribute to the Crosby/Malkin window. A guy who could be in the team next season, that's pretty big. Sure he's a long shot but 2nds are fairly long shots anyway.

A deal like that sounds good to me on paper if we get the right player.

I could see a 2nd+ as a pretty realistic scenario for him. 2 x 2nds is likely reaching and only available if there's a real bidding war for him - something I doubt happens.

The thing to remember is how much Rutherford likes his depth. This can't be over stated. He will absolutely hate the idea of moving one of Hunwick/Cole - even if one of them is sitting as a HS every single game of this season. The only way he'd downgrade from one of them (and it is a downgrade) is if he's being forced to for cap reasons OR in a desire to gain assets to send out for a center/another player. I don't think for a second that he would have hesitated to just move a 4th for Olek if he had had the roster space to do so... but he probably had a good idea that he would lose Archie to waivers and thus flipped him for someone he wanted. The same is going to apply to Cole/Hunwick (likely Cole). He'll be moved for some sort of package that potentially includes a replacement depth D (such as Fantenberg) and something else, and then he'll acquire the desired player using the gained cap space and potentially the assets he just acquired. Or those will be used to replenish what he just shipped out (or at least to help compensate for what he moved).

I think a lot of it has to do with the market. I mean, Hainsey got a 2nd, but Doug Murray got two seconds. Cole has been a solid contributor to two cup winning defenses, is younger than both were, and a lower cap hit. If there arent a lot of sellers at the deadline, I could see him getting two picks/pick and prospect back easy, although maybe not two seconds.

That was also a different era as well in the sense that very little (or at least less) emphasis was placed on speed/skating and size reigned suprime - and Murray had tons of size. And yes I'm aware that was only 5 years ago... but in terms of where the NHL is today vs then (largely - if not entirely due to the 15/16 Penguins), it seems like a lifetime ago.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I just want to confirm that other people see how similar Pageau’s numbers are to Sheahan’s? Everyone’s favourite player. I get fit but if you’re talking about the price and how great he is, ehhhhh. He’s not that far off of Sheahan.

This one half-season is the only one in the last 3 years where Sheahan isn't trounced by Pageau at pretty much everything...and Pageau is playing on the Sens with Pyatt and Smith as his most frequent linemates while Sheahan plays on the Pens with Guentzel and Kessel as his most frequent linemates.

Rumour has it that Max Domi is on the market. Sprong for Domi swap would be ok. Domi is a LW with some sandpaper and a RFA. Estimating his trade value is a bit tricky.

Could be a prime buy low candidate, if we got our center situation in order.

 

[Riptide]

I initially felt that way, but who cares? If they flat out aren't going to use Sprong, and it is getting to be that feeling, then why keep the guy? Just to hear all the excuses of why he's not "defensively responsible?"

Based on what exactly? God this supposition is so annoying. He's still a f***ing rookie who's not even finished his first pro season yet.

He's had a very good start to his pro career, and his AHL numbers are very good. He came to the NHL, had 4 good games followed by 3.66 lesser games. He was (iirc) scratched for a few then sent down when Rust became healthy. And yet the belief is around here that we're somehow jerking him around or yanking his chain. Pittsburgh has a very deep forward group, and one that for the first time in years has remained largely healthy. But it's not like we're sitting him for skill less vets... It's a pair of young kids in Simon and ZAR who've taken the chance and run with it (more-so Simon). And depending on how ZARs stint is and how long Hornqvist/Sheary are out for, I could even see him getting sent back down and Sprong coming back up.

Yet some on here are talking about how we might as well trade him because we won't use him as if he's capable of making an immediate impact, or that he's proven all he has to prove at the AHL level after 35 games. Half a season into his pro career... yeah what the hell, clearly not part of the Pens plans, might as well trade him.

Considering how knowledgeable and smart some of our posters are... they can be really stupid sometimes.

 

[Riptide]

So PPG is how you know if someone is barely better than someone now? I guess Josh Bailey and Taylor Hall are "barely" better than Sidney Crosby. In no way does PPG have an effect on who's better. I mean, Sheahan's dZS% is higher than Pageau's, but Sheahan has been playing with one of or both of Guentzel and Kessel this year. Pageau's most common linemates are: Tom Pyatt and Zack Smith. You cannot evenly compare Sheahan and Pageau this year.

And Pageau played extensively with Stone in the past... and his numbers didn't budget.

 

[JTG]

How did ZAR look?

 

[66-30-33]

Leivo-Sheahan-Soshnikov as our 4th line?

edit- wtf bolded post...