Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer | The grind it out phase | Moar 3C Talk!

[KIRK]

Something that got glossed over.. so you get the sense Cullen will be our 4c next year?

I have somewhere between no clue and less than no clue.

We don't have to convince Sakic of that. We have to convince Sakic's replacement

And by that time, the price will have dropped.

I suspect that's where JR is (and a couple of other GM's too).

 

[Nakawick]

Kirk, who would you have on a list of 5 players who you think are at the top of JR's list.

 

[Andy99]

FYI Dallas looks to be over the cap now with that depth defense signing and has 24 players, one over the limit. Someone has to go. Shore? Doubtful they're interested in trading Faksa

 

[KIRK]

Kirk, who would you have on a list of 5 players who you think are at the top of JR's list.

I would think that both Duchene and Staal are on JR's wishlist.

I think Bozak probably is there.

I believe there were talks with Dallas (wish it was Faksa but doubt it), and I can buy the suggestion that there's a fallback plan with Vegas (Eakin or Karlsson maybe?).

But, pure hypothetical world, where JR can get who he'd want, it's Duchene first and Staal a distant second.

FYI Dallas looks to be over the cap now with that depth defense signing and has 24 players, one over the limit. Someone has to go. Shore? Doubtful they're interested in trading Faksa

I'd think Shore. No reason to move Faksa.

 

[The Old Master]

AA also mostly plays wing for the Red Wings. So if you trade Sheary for AA, you're essentially doing it to get bigger and slightly faster with less proven production but similar future production on wing, which still leaves a gap at 3C.

Athanasiou could be a good Center, but so far in his NHL career, he's been a much better winger. So moving him to C, might not be what people expect out of him.

he came up as a center.....so plating wing, he's out of his normal position. if he's moved back and left there I think he could grow to be a good one.....but it would be a gamble. ...not a big one though. .....at worst hes like you said "a bigger sheary"

 

[Nakawick]

It does seem like more than a coincidence that Duchene is still in Colorado and we have no 3C. Particularly after Sakic said prices were too low and JR said prices were too high. Maybe Duchene is a bridge too far, but Staal to me seems like more of a long shot. Not sure who we have that would interest the Canes.

 

[Shady Machine]

What's the odds of signing Will Butcher?

Would make moving Maatta inconsequential I would think.

?? What makes you think Will Butcher is a top 4 NHL dman this year?

 

[Andy99]

I would think that both Duchene and Staal are on JR's wishlist.

I think Bozak probably is there.

I believe there were talks with Dallas (wish it was Faksa but doubt it), and I can buy the suggestion that there's a fallback plan with Vegas (Eakin or Karlsson maybe?).

But, pure hypothetical world, where JR can get who he'd want, it's Duchene first and Staal a distant second.



I'd think Shore. No reason to move Faksa.

I mean this was my view of the 3C search too. JR has his sights set high on a very good player (Duchene) who's available for the right price, and then there are other very good players he likes, like Bozak or Staal or Faksa, Haula, who are not available to us, and then there are 4Cs on other teams who could be available but are a projection that they can be a good 3C for us. And the more this goes on, the more I think it's the latter and that our threepeat hopes are a wing and a prayer, not that they weren't anyway but the odds were much better with a strong offensive third line anchored by someone like Duchene

 

[Andy99]

What if the player Dallas really wants to move is Spezza because of his cap hit and the fact that he wants to play center and likely will be penciled in to play wing.

He's signed for two more years at $7.5 mil and he's 34. If Dallas were to retain $1.5 mil and it would only cost us a pick or prospect not named ZAR or Sprong, would anyone do this? Yes, we would need to send salary out somewhere else, Hagelin or Maatta most likely....so not sure if it's feasible

 

[Jenkins]

What if the player Dallas really wants to move is Spezza because of his cap hit and the fact that he wants to play center and likely will be penciled in to play wing.

He's signed for two more years at $7.5 mil and he's 34. If Dallas were to retain $1.5 mil and it would only cost us a pick or prospect not named ZAR or Sprong, would anyone do this? Yes, we would need to send salary out somewhere else, Hagelin or Maatta most likely....so not sure if it's feasible

Not for Spezza and they'd say no anyway as they could get a better deal.

If Maatta goes in any deal we need a good top 4 D man in return anyway. Best to keep him. He's on a good contract and improved well from a poor season in 15/16.

 

[DesertPenguin]

It does seem like more than a coincidence that Duchene is still in Colorado and we have no 3C. Particularly after Sakic said prices were too low and JR said prices were too high. Maybe Duchene is a bridge too far, but Staal to me seems like more of a long shot. Not sure who we have that would interest the Canes.

Pens can still fit Soderberg at 3M (1.75M retained) without subtracting from the roster...

 

[wheelz87]

Spezza is getting a bit long in the tooth. I'd rather pass, for the assets we'd have to give up. Would not do a contract like Hags PLUS a prospect. Maatta. just no.

Spezza would be big game hunting, so if you do that you do it right and go after a Duchene/Staal/Bozak. Otherwise keep your assets and go for a plan B type you can acquire for much less.

 

[dePENSonFleury]

I would think that both Duchene and Staal are on JR's wishlist.

I think Bozak probably is there.

I believe Bozak isn't an option because he doesn't PK. If he were our guy, we would already have him. Duchene and Staal both PK.

Reaves doesn't PK, and when he is in the lineup it means a PKer is probably sitting. Wilson might can, but didn't last year for some reason. I sure hope a guy like Mckegg isn't on the roster because of special teams and draws because that means one more player has to clear waivers. Some of these projected lineups don't have four guys that can kill a penalty or two that can win a shorthanded draw on the PK. Crosby doesn't need to take half the draws on every penalty.

 

[66-30-33]

?? What makes you think Will Butcher is a top 4 NHL dman this year?

Yeah he's a longshot at best apparently to HFBoards. Worth a gamble, he would be free.

 

[66-30-33]

I would think that both Duchene and Staal are on JR's wishlist.

I think Bozak probably is there.

I think Duchene is also on his wishlist. He said himself if he really wanted to he could pull the trigger for a few guys but is waiting, which means it's a big name he's hoping for and waiting for the ask price to go down. I think he may start the first few months without a real 3C and just keep waiting. It will be before 2017 ends though, he aint waiting untill the TD and will not do anything saying prices were too high because that's a waste, we need that 3C before the games start to really matter. Also if we get Duchene we can rest Crosby/Malkin more and give the 1C to Duchene while Crosby and Malkin get 2C and 3C and less icetime along the way to be more fresh for the playoffs. That top line can get more minutes, maybe rotate the wingers? but 1st line plays the bigger minutes.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The Pens absolutely were in the running for Duchene last year. It's my understanding that both the Isles and Pens consented to give Sakic what he claimed he wanted, at which point he backed out. In the case of the Pens, with Maatta injured, it's my understanding that two of the team's three young wingers with the highest upside may have been agreed before Sakic reneged. Just what I was told . . . whether it's right or not aside, I'm thankful Sakic flaked if that's what JR agreed.

This summer, I think JR circled back, but I suspect JR is going to wait until Sakic is fired or gets his head out of his rear before engaging in serious discussions again.

There's no telling what was offered. At that point in time, it could have been Guentzel, Maatta +.

Is anyone on this board on board with losing Guentzel in a package for Duchene?

For all we know, his ask now from the Penguins would be (knowing Jake is not on the table) - Sheary, Sprong, Maatta, 1st, and maybe even more. Sakic is that delusional.

 

[Ogrezilla]

There's no telling what was offered. At that point in time, it could have been Guentzel, Maatta +.

Is anyone on this board on board with losing Guentzel in a package for Duchene?

we better be discussing Duchene as a part of a package for Guentzel in that case.

But really the simple answer is just no.

 

[PensPlz]

?? What makes you think Will Butcher is a top 4 NHL dman this year?

I didn't say he was.
I assume the D-pairings will be:
Dumo - Letang
Schultz - Cole
Maatta - Hunwick/Ruh/Pooh

Butcher would be filling that 5th/6th D spot -IF- he proves viable after a stint in WBS. Basically just treat him like we did Guentzel.

If not, then we're only looking to fill a depth spot on D at the deadline, instead of looking for centers which is a more important role.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I didn't say he was.
I assume the D-pairings will be:
Dumo - Letang
Schultz - Cole
Maatta - Hunwick/Ruh/Pooh

Butcher would be filling that 5th/6th D spot -IF- he proves viable after a stint in WBS. Basically just treat him like we did Guentzel.

If not, then we're only looking to fill a depth spot on D at the deadline, instead of looking for centers which is a more important role.

Moving Maatta puts that defense at three top-4 d-men, puts a number 7 into the line-up, and makes a guy who was like number 12 three months ago our number 7.

Oh, and one of those three top-4 D is Letang, who misses like 45 games a year. That defense is lacking both a top-4 and adequate depth.

 

[PensPlz]

Moving Maatta puts that defense at three top-4 d-men, puts a number 7 into the line-up, and makes a guy who was like number 12 three months ago our number 7.

Oh, and one of those three top-4 D is Letang, who misses like 45 games a year. That defense is lacking both a top-4 and adequate depth.

Do you not consider Cole a top 4 D man? Geez.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Do you not consider Cole a top 4 D man? Geez.

I love Cole, but no, I don't. He's a very good 3rd pairing guy who can fill in a top 4 spot in a pinch, but he's not a long term top-4 guy. There's a reason he's been 6th in ice time and ES ice time per game in both Cup runs.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think Duchene is also on his wishlist. He said himself if he really wanted to he could pull the trigger for a few guys but is waiting, which means it's a big name he's hoping for and waiting for the ask price to go down. I think he may start the first few months without a real 3C and just keep waiting. It will be before 2017 ends though, he aint waiting untill the TD and will not do anything saying prices were too high because that's a waste, we need that 3C before the games start to really matter. Also if we get Duchene we can rest Crosby/Malkin more and give the 1C to Duchene while Crosby and Malkin get 2C and 3C and less icetime along the way to be more fresh for the playoffs. That top line can get more minutes, maybe rotate the wingers? but 1st line plays the bigger minutes.

I think Staal is probably easier to get, but it would require JR moving some other pieces around. Possibly Maatta for a cheaper young D option from a team that covets a guy like Maatta more so now than waiting for a guy to emerge from their pool of prospects.

Which would then fit Staal in the Pens cap structure. With 3m and some change, moving Maatta makes that 7m and some change, unless JR got Carolina to even retain 15%, that's tough. Even then, what would it take to get Staal?

I'd imagine Jarry would be someone the Hurricanes would covet (Obviously a 1st wound also have to go their way), yeah they have Darling, but he's also 29 signed to a 4yr contract, Ward is probably on his last contract too.

Curious if this would get us Jordan Staal back on the Pens:

To Carolina:
Penguins 1st in 2019
Tristan Jarry
Scott Wilson

To Pittsburgh:
Jordan Staal - 18% retained.

Then you just have to find a trade to move Maatta?

I don't know, I'm not great with the trade ideas.

 

[66-30-33]

There's no telling what was offered. At that point in time, it could have been Guentzel, Maatta +.

Is anyone on this board on board with losing Guentzel in a package for Duchene?

For all we know, his ask now from the Penguins would be (knowing Jake is not on the table) - Sheary, Sprong, Maatta, 1st, and maybe even more. Sakic is that delusional.

I'd say Sheary+1st is fair for Duchene at this point. Adding Sprong and Maatta is mind boggling dumb. Duchene is good but he aint that good to get Sheary, Maatta, Sprong, 1st, Sakic needs to go if Avalanche have any hope at all in their future.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Moving Maatta puts that defense at three top-4 d-men, puts a number 7 into the line-up, and makes a guy who was like number 12 three months ago our number 7.

Oh, and one of those three top-4 D is Letang, who misses like 45 games a year. That defense is lacking both a top-4 and adequate depth.

Huh?

Even if we move Maatta and get back a young guy, our top 4 is still Dumoulin, Letang, Cole, and Schultz.

We did more damage with less.

Hell, if we could get back a damn solid RHD, a young one, for Maatta, I wouldn't be mad at that at all.

 

[Jacob]

Regardless of who plays where moving Maatta just puts Ruhwedel and/or Hunwick way too close to a top 4 spot for my liking.