Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer Part 3

[NeedleInTheHay]

He's turning 37 and has 4 years on his deal. I don't see him being a 6 mil player at 40. Plays the game too hard, too many miles and against the best players in the game every night.

Right now? He's a better overall player than Duchene, sure.

He'd be incredible here the next couple years, then he can find an equipment allergy when the actual dollars goes down, I believe it's one of those front loaded deals.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He put up 68pts last year, at 36. Dude has a ton of game left in him.

 

[Riptide]

He put up 68pts last year, at 36. Dude has a ton of game left in him.

He's 36, however he will turn 37 before the start of the season. "a ton of game left" is really really stretching it. At best he might just finish out his contract in Detroit - and even that is questionable.

I'm not taking away anything from Z, but his game and his career are winding down. It happens with age.

 

[billybudd]

Zero chance of that happening - even if he waived his NMC for any team. Duchene's age will still trump whatever difference in skill there is between him and Z.

As Mpp9 noted, Zetterberg is still better than Duchene (particularly defensively, but he's also better offensively). Additionally, Z's a proven winner and big game player. Finally, I'm not sure what difference their age makes since you're comparing Zetterberg against 2 years of Duchene only.

If it was 5 years vs 5 years, sure, Duchene's more valuable in a transaction. 2 vs 4? I doubt it (not that Z has any chance of being a Penguin).

 

[Riptide]

As Mpp9 noted, Zetterberg is still better than Duchene (particularly defensively, but he's also better offensively). Additionally, Z's a proven winner and big game player. Finally, I'm not sure what difference their age makes since you're comparing Zetterberg against 2 years of Duchene only.

If it was 5 years vs 5 years, sure, Duchene's more valuable in a transaction. 2 vs 4? I doubt it (not that Z has any chance of being a Penguin).

Why does it have to be 2 years only? Duchene will be 27.5 years old when that contract expires.... why can't they give him (whomever they is) an 7/8 year deal? It's rare that players of MD's talent hit FA for a reason, and whomever trades for him will know this and will almost certainly be trading for him with the intent on extending him. This should be pretty straight forward...

Then there's also the fact that Duchene isn't a high risk of turning into a **** contract solely due to age anytime in the next 3-4 years.

As for the "better offensively" bit... I don't think it's enough of a difference to matter. And no, don't go posting his 68pts to MDs 41pts... When one team is 3 games under 500 and the other is 24 games under 500, you're going to see all sorts of ****** numbers.

 

[JTG]

At what point are you messing with the chemistry of a back to back Stanley Cup champion team? We have already lost several guys, although I would say somewhat positive attrition, but it is still a big change to the locker room. I think they need to be careful of how far they can push that.

I wouldn't personally worry about it. When a team loses a guy, they gain a guy. Who is to say Ryan Reaves doesn't have a bigger impact on the room than Chris Kunitz? He very well may. We add character to this team.

I just don't think Hagelin's salary is a proper allocation of resources on this team. Rust will be taking over for him in the coming year, as Rust will be making as much as him. If he aids us in getting better - whether that's by bringing in a top 6 winger, a 3C or a top 4 defenseman...I'm completely fine and comfortable with that.

In regards to Sheary - judging by what I'm reading, Sheary's arbitration has a good possibility of going our way. If that's the truth, I'd try to sign him to a 2-3 year deal, and I'd also flip him. Sheary is a good hockey player, but I don't see how he fits here. He cannot play with Sid when the going gets tough.

 

[JTG]

No way Detroit trades their Captian right after moving into a new arena. Really bad optics.

Still rather have Staal than Duchene. But neither looks remotely possible.

You're high. THere is absolutely no way in the world to spin wanting Jordan Staal over Matt Duchene.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Why does it have to be 2 years only? Duchene will be 27.5 years old when that contract expires.... why can't they give him (whomever they is) an 7/8 year deal? It's rare that players of MD's talent hit FA for a reason, and whomever trades for him will know this and will almost certainly be trading for him with the intent on extending him. This should be pretty straight forward...

Then there's also the fact that Duchene isn't a high risk of turning into a **** contract solely due to age anytime in the next 3-4 years.

As for the "better offensively" bit... I don't think it's enough of a difference to matter. And no, don't go posting his 68pts to MDs 41pts... When one team is 3 games under 500 and the other is 24 games under 500, you're going to see all sorts of ****** numbers.

If he does well here, I don't see how we can afford the raise he'll be looking for.

You're high. THere is absolutely no way in the world to spin wanting Jordan Staal over Matt Duchene.

2 years vs 6 years.

 

[PensPlz]

You're high. THere is absolutely no way in the world to spin wanting Jordan Staal over Matt Duchene.

Cheaper to aquire for starters. Can still put up points and have good years on a losing team. Better defensively. Already knows the city.

Not really in favor of either, just saying if I had to pick one... That's who.

 

[JTG]

If he does well here, I don't see how we can afford the raise he'll be looking for.



2 years vs 6 years.

I'd rather have Duchene for 2 years at 6.6 than Jordan Staal for 6 more years at 6 million bucks. I don't personally see Duchene's salary going much higher than it is right now, and if it does, that means he has put up some pretty absurd numbers.

I am a Staal fan...dude's offensive game is non-existent. Now if we were talking about trading for Staal and Caroline retains 2m...I'm picking up what is being put down.

Cheaper to aquire for starters. Can still put up points and have good years on a losing team. Better defensively. Already knows the city.

Not really in favor of either, just saying if I had to pick one... That's who.

The acquisition cost needs to be compared to what we are getting in return. Often times people see trades for what they are losing, and not what they are gaining.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'd rather have Duchene for 2 years at 6.6 than Jordan Staal for 6 more years at 6 million bucks. I don't personally see Duchene's salary going much higher than it is right now, and if it does, that means he has put up some pretty absurd numbers.

I am a Staal fan...dude's offensive game is non-existent. Now if we were talking about trading for Staal and Caroline retains 2m...I'm picking up what is being put down.

I'm just giving you what could be considered 1 reason. I don't think either would be worth what they likely cost to acquire.

 

[ColePens]

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If he does well here, I don't see how we can afford the raise he'll be looking for.

If we were to acquire Duchene, I think the logic for getting him longer term would have to be that we eventually move Kessel for futures to accommodate him.

Of course everything's contingent on Duchene finding his game, Kessel tapering off a bit, and our young wingers stepping up.

 

[Dr Frasier Crane]

Not sure whose offer/ask is more asinine. To me, both are equidistant from the right number.

 

[froods]

Wow, talk about a lowball by the Pens and a player over valuing himself. He is worth 3-3.5

 

[ColePens]

Wow, talk about a lowball by the Pens and a player over valuing himself. He is worth 3-3.5

That's how it works. If Pens go low and Dumo goes high, hopefully they meet in the middle. Which is ****ing stupid on Dumo's agent to really force this. I think the best possible contract is something like... 3x5 for Dumo. Or 3.2-3.5 x 5. Give up term, keep cap hit low. He's not a points guy. It would be perfect for both sides.

The fact this is going to arbitration is ****ing stupid. And seeing how it's the same agent, I have a feeling the agent just isn't willing to come off a high number. So JR played chicken the right way.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Both of those asks are straight up ridiculous. I don't know why the Penguins are being so cheap here.

 

[Shrimper]

$3.75m for 4 years would seem fair to me.

Both of those asks are straight up ridiculous. I don't know why the Penguins are being so cheap here.

Just a negotiating tactic. Start low and if your player starts high then they'll have to come down. They'll likely settle at $3.75m but if Pens had come in with $3m straight off they would likely try and get more than $3.75m as they will see that the Penguins have higher value in him due to the opening offer.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I smell a short-term deal.

Dumo's more valuable than the numbers they can use in arbitration suggest, so we may opt to get him for cheap until he has UFA leverage.

 

[Asuna]

that's one of the largest differences i've seen.

hopefully they can meet in the middle somewhere

 

[ColePens]

Both of those asks are straight up ridiculous. I don't know why the Penguins are being so cheap here.

I'm going to sound like a broken record. Do you guys/gals have zero clue how this works? Do you really think both parties go in with fair numbers?

IF Pens go in fair @ 3m and Dumo goes at 4.4.... where does it end up? Then you all would ***** when it ends up at 3.8-4.0.

IF Dumo comes in at 3 and Pens come in at 1.9... where does it end up? Then you would all be ecstatic when it comes in cheap but then Dumo leaves after 1-2 years.

Come on guys. You are smarter than this. This is simple negotiation and playing the business.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Yeahhhh. He doesn't have the offensive numbers for that and I'm betting it'll be closer to the Pens' lowball than what he's asking for.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm going to sound like a broken record. Do you guys/gals have zero clue how this works? Do you really think both parties go in with fair numbers?

IF Pens go in fair @ 3m and Dumo goes at 4.4.... where does it end up? Then you all would ***** when it ends up at 3.8-4.0.

IF Dumo comes in at 3 and Pens come in at 1.9... where does it end up? Then you would all be ecstatic when it comes in cheap but then Dumo leaves after 1-2 years.

Come on guys. You are smarter than this. This is simple negotiation and playing the business.

But that's not how the arbitration works, doesn't Dumoulin either get what he was asking for or what the Penguins offered? I don't think they just settle at the middle in arbitration.

 

[froods]

I'm going to sound like a broken record. Do you guys/gals have zero clue how this works? Do you really think both parties go in with fair numbers?

IF Pens go in fair @ 3m and Dumo goes at 4.4.... where does it end up? Then you all would ***** when it ends up at 3.8-4.0.

IF Dumo comes in at 3 and Pens come in at 1.9... where does it end up? Then you would all be ecstatic when it comes in cheap but then Dumo leaves after 1-2 years.

Come on guys. You are smarter than this. This is simple negotiation and playing the business.

OH I get it, but is usually good faith negotiation. This is just stupid.

 

[Nakawick]

But that's not how the arbitration works, doesn't Dumoulin either get what he was asking for or what the Penguins offered? I don't think they just settle at the middle in arbitration.

You are thinking of baseball. That isn't how it works in hockey.