Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer Part 3

[davemess]

I am not super worried about having to replace Bonino. He was a very good 3C for us but I don't get all this talk about him being capable to stepping into a top 6 role when Sid or Geno were out. Yeah he did it and the 2nd line worked okay but that's because Kessell was there to carry the line. I think most of the potential 3C's we have been linked with could do a reasonable short term job as the 2C with Kessell and say Hagelin on the wings.

Where I do have an issue is with replacing Cullen, we have been super fortunate to have had THE best 4C in the league over the last 2 years. A guy that was more than able to step up and fill the 3C and at times even a 2C role. I think at this point Rowney is probably capable of doing the 4C role we ask our 4C to do, I just don't think he is able to move up the lineup should it be required.

 

[Shady Machine]

Why so everyone can continue to lament about something that Jimmy's going to resolve when the time is right? I guess GM'ing a team to 2 cups in the last 2 years doesn't count for much around here...

No just to be honest. I feel like some are downplaying how big of a hole we have right now and are cool with waiting until the trade deadline to solve it. I think that's understating the need we have. I'm not emotional or overreacting about it but it's July 27th and there isn't much else to talk about regarding the Pens. It's a topic I think is worth discussing.

 

[billybudd]

Boy, I don't understand what people are seeing if they think Kuhnhackl's physical or should be mentioned in the same breath as Bonino. I don't have any problem with him as a #12-14, but I'm on the same page with Shady that if he sought a 400k raise, that would price him out of the league real quick.

 

[SCPens]

It is a new season with a new roster. Winning two cups in the last two years doesn't make us win a cup this year and resting on those laurels is what has been done this off season. Rutherford says a lot of things. He has had a lot of luck the last two years in pretty much having every trade work out.

Relying on filling our center depth through trade after July or having a 41 year old resign is not proactive and as Shady has said it has been a long time since we've made it this far into an off season with no legitimate 3C. If Cullen walks, we are basically implying that we can fill Cullen and Bonino's contributions with a 3C that we don't have yet and Rowney.

That's a huge, concerning hole. You can probably plug it with a pending UFA. But my point is that if one of Malkin or Crosby goes down and our bottom six depth is a player like Karlsson and a player like Rowney. There is a legitimate chance we could miss the playoffs. It'd be akin to having what we did in 2011 at the later part of the season.

What makes you think Jimmy's been "resting on his laurels" this offseason? It's been reported by a number of local beat writers that he has a list of 3rd line centre options he's inquired about and will make a move when the time is right. And saying Jimmy's been "lucky" with the moves he's made the past 2 seasons is totally subjective. I can make the same statement saying his moves were smart and bang-on. And again, I can't agree with you saying that Jimmy hasn't been proactive, I'm sure his phone is still on and he's been keeping tabs on his list of centres he's inquired about.

 

[Shady Machine]

Is that what it's called when a GM is patient waiting for the right deal rather than acquiring any old player months before he has to?



I guess waiting for a 40 year old to re-sign last year wasn't "proactive" either. It sure was better than any possible alternative though.

And FYI, Desharnais wouldn't fill in for Bonino or Cullen either, what with not being able to play a lick of defense on top of his poor production last year.

There is a big difference between last summer and this one. I don't agree with Pixies completely, but be honest here. Last summer we had Crosby-Malkin-Bonino-Fehr-Sunny. Waiting on Cullen was fine because we didn't NEED him. We had plenty of depth if he decided to move on. This year we don't have that depth. Just acknowledge the difference.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Boy, I don't understand what people are seeing if they think Kuhnhackl's physical or should be mentioned in the same breath as Bonino. I don't have any problem with him as a #12-14, but I'm on the same page with Shady that if he sought a 400k raise, that would price him out of the league real quick.

His totals are actually pretty decent for a 4th liner, but literally everything else he does can be instilled in a thousand other players. They'd just put up about 10 pts a year instead of 20. No real issue with Kuhn but he's a throw in.

 

[Shady Machine]

I am not super worried about having to replace Bonino. He was a very good 3C for us but I don't get all this talk about him being capable to stepping into a top 6 role when Sid or Geno were out. Yeah he did it and the 2nd line worked okay but that's because Kessell was there to carry the line. I think most of the potential 3C's we have been linked with could do a reasonable short term job as the 2C with Kessell and say Hagelin on the wings.

Where I do have an issue is with replacing Cullen, we have been super fortunate to have had THE best 4C in the league over the last 2 years. A guy that was more than able to step up and fill the 3C and at times even a 2C role. I think at this point Rowney is probably capable of doing the 4C role we ask our 4C to do, I just don't think he is able to move up the lineup should it be required.

Right it wasn't just about having Bonino to fill in for Sid-Geno, but also Cullen there.

The problem that I see is having to replace both. For that reason, I want the 3C to be better than Bonino.

 

[Shady Machine]

Boy, I don't understand what people are seeing if they think Kuhnhackl's physical or should be mentioned in the same breath as Bonino. I don't have any problem with him as a #12-14, but I'm on the same page with Shady that if he sought a 400k raise, that would price him out of the league real quick.

He's not physical and he shouldn't be mentioned anywhere near Bonino. Compare Kuhn and Rowney if you'd like and because of position flexibility, Rowney wins. Now tell me (not you, but collectively) if you think Rowney + pick nets you a good 3rd line center. I think the answer is obvious.

 

[Gurglesons]

What makes you think Jimmy's been "resting on his laurels" this offseason? It's been reported by a number of local beat writers than he has a list of 3rd line centre options he's inquired about and will make a move when the time is right. And saying Jimmy's been "lucky" with the moves he's made the past 2 seasons is totally subjective. I can make the same statement saying his moves were smart and bang-on. And again, I can't agree with you saying that Jimmy hasn't been proactive, I'm sure his phone is still on and he's been keeping tabs on his list of centres he's inquired about.

The fact he has done nothing but sign Hunwick to an inflated deal and expects a 27 year old AHLer to suddenly be a 82 game NHLer cos he had a decent playoffs.

 

[Beauner]

The fact he has done nothing but sign Hunwick to an inflated deal and expects a 27 year old AHLer to suddenly be a 82 game NHLer cos he had a decent playoffs.

Yeah man I'm also bummed about the rule mandating the roster you have on opening night is the same roster you have to use in the playoffs.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

There is a big difference between last summer and this one. I don't agree with Pixies completely, but be honest here. Last summer we had Crosby-Malkin-Bonino-Fehr-Sunny. Waiting on Cullen was fine because we didn't NEED him. We had plenty of depth if he decided to move on. This year we don't have that depth. Just acknowledge the difference.

But we don't "need" anyone right now either. It's July, and our candid GM has been explicit about having targets and fallback options. We aren't going into the season with this collection of centers, and you can quote me on that. You can also quote me that whatever center(s) we get will be better than Desharnais.

Waiting on Cullen is the best possible option because he's the best 4C in the league. Desharnais produced at a 4th line level last year on top of being 5'7" and not being able to play defense. He's an incredibly flawed 4C alternative even if we weren't waiting on Cullen.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The fact he has done nothing but sign Hunwick to an inflated deal and expects a 27 year old AHLer to suddenly be a 82 game NHLer cos he had a decent playoffs.

You're expecting a 5'7" center who had 14 points in 49 games and can't play defense to be a saviour for the 4th line and sub in for generational centers.

 

[davemess]

The problem that I see is having to replace both. For that reason, I want the 3C to be better than Bonino.

We all want that but its unlikely to happen for 2 reasons, the salary cap and a lack of tradable assets.

Somebody isn't going to just give us a great 3C for bits & bobs..... and the player isn't going to want to play for $2-3mill a year for long either.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I can't wait for the inevitable "trade for Bonino" post.

 

[Malkinstheman]

If it doesnt work out in Nashville maybe we can look at getting Bones back.

 

[SCPens]

I'm not worried about having that ideal 3C to start the season. Traditionally, in the regular season, 2 good scoring lines is enough as you're not playing the same team 7-times in a row, you get more breaks, games are less intense and you get to face some weaker foes.

I'd rather see JR be patient and, if necessary, use the absence to give some reps to those guys waiting in the wings. Maybe some of them will really surprise us. Who would have thought at the beginning of the 2015-16 season we'd win a Cup with Sheary, Rust and Kuhnhackl playing prominent roles? Or this past season with Jake, Rowney, Wilson and, even though they didn't get as many games, Archibald and Ruhwedel?

IMO, there's guys beyond Sprong & ZAR who could end up being one of those guys. Let's try em out!

No just to be honest. I feel like some are downplaying how big of a hole we have right now and are cool with waiting until the trade deadline to solve it. I think that's understating the need we have. I'm not emotional or overreacting about it but it's July 27th and there isn't much else to talk about regarding the Pens. It's a topic I think is worth discussing.

I think your last bolded statement appears to be the issue. And just to let you know, Jimmy's been quoted as saying he'd be cool with waiting until the trade deadline to solve the 3rd line centre position. Perhaps some others around here should take up golfing on July 27th...summer's a terrible thing to waste. Take a read of what Coach Travis had to say earlier today, he makes some great points. So even if the 'floor falls out from under us' - which it won't - signing some scud like Desharnais isn't the kind of move that has put this team in the position to win the last 2 cups.

 

[Coastal Kev]

If it doesnt work out in Nashville maybe we can look at getting Bones back.

...well that happened much quicker than I expected.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think your last bolded statement appears to be the issue. And just to let you know, Jimmy's been quoted as saying he'd be cool with waiting until the trade deadline to solve the 3rd line centre position. Perhaps some others around here should take up golfing on July 27th...summer's a terrible thing to waste. Take a read of what Coach Travis had to say earlier today, he makes some great points. So even if the 'floor falls out from under us' - which it won't - signing some scud like Desharnais isn't the kind of move that has put this team in the position to win the last 2 cups.

And Jimmy being cool with that doesn't mean it's unreasonable for me NOT to be cool with it.

As for the golfing nonsense (I do golf by the way), it's pretty rich that you are posting on a message board telling me not to post anything critical on a message board.

 

[Shady Machine]

But we don't "need" anyone right now either. It's July, and our candid GM has been explicit about having targets and fallback options. We aren't going into the season with this collection of centers, and you can quote me on that. You can also quote me that whatever center(s) we get will be better than Desharnais.

Waiting on Cullen is the best possible option because he's the best 4C in the league. Desharnais produced at a 4th line level last year on top of being 5'7" and not being able to play defense. He's an incredibly flawed 4C alternative even if we weren't waiting on Cullen.

Correct we don't need anyone, but is it unreasonable to be a little concerned? As I said before, this is the worst center depth we've had in 10 years. It can certainly be addressed, but it's currently an issue.

Let's see what JR does through training camp.

 

[SCPens]

The fact he has done nothing but sign Hunwick to an inflated deal and expects a 27 year old AHLer to suddenly be a 82 game NHLer cos he had a decent playoffs.

Seriously, that's your reply? Does it rain EVERY day in your world??

 

[SCPens]

And Jimmy being cool with that doesn't mean it's unreasonable for me NOT to be cool with it.

As for the golfing nonsense (I do golf by the way), it's pretty rich that you are posting on a message board telling me not to post anything critical on a message board.

This coming from someone with almost 29,000 posts.....who's being rich??

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Correct we don't need anyone, but is it unreasonable to be a little concerned? As I said before, this is the worst center depth we've had in 10 years. It can certainly be addressed, but it's currently an issue.

Let's see what JR does through training camp.

I'd absolutely like the center thing resolved and I'm going to be a little uneasy until it is, but I know that Bones and Cullen make things more difficult this year, and that these things can take time so they work out for the best.

What I'm not going to do is wish we prematurely moved on from Cullen to sign any old center from the scrapheap just to say "we have a 4C". Yeah, we would...a really ****** one. I'll wait awhile to see if the chef has another prime steak in the back rather than scour the Arby's parking lot for a half-eaten beef bunwich.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Correct we don't need anyone, but is it unreasonable to be a little concerned? As I said before, this is the worst center depth we've had in 10 years. It can certainly be addressed, but it's currently an issue.

Let's see what JR does through training camp.

Personally I think the answer is no. I can remember back in training camp before 2015-16: People screaming bloody murder (not really an exaggeration at all) because Kunitz was attached to Sid's hip and would never be moved from that line, and how we were short a top 4 defenseman short on top of Scuds being here.

Granted there's no definitive answer to how it will work out in the end, and I'm not saying it definitely will, but we are short positions we can very likely fill over the next six months, and possibly before the season starts.

There will be a 4C available for a draft pick by the deadline at the latest from some team who is completely out of the playoffs. A 3C is a little trickier but let's solidify the rest of the team and then see exactly who we can get. Losing Bones and Cullen (IMO) likely leaving doesn't really change anything we could've done to this point I don't believe.

I'll wait awhile to see if the chef has another prime steak in the back rather than scour the Arby's parking lot for a half-eaten beef bunwich.

Love it.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

What I'm not going to do is wish we prematurely moved on from Cullen to sign any old center from the scrapheap just to say "we have a 4C". Yeah, we would...a really ****** one. I'll wait awhile to see if the chef has another prime steak in the back rather than scour the Arby's parking lot for a half-eaten beef bunwich.

I was with you until you criticized Arby's. There are worse things you can put in your mouth

Anyway I'd like to remind everyone that we didn't trade for Bonino UNTIL July 28th. There's plenty of time for deals to be had. We'll see some activity when Sheary's arbitration is settled.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Correct we don't need anyone, but is it unreasonable to be a little concerned? As I said before, this is the worst center depth we've had in 10 years. It can certainly be addressed, but it's currently an issue.

Let's see what JR does through training camp.

If you want to feel better about our centers, NYR projected top 4 is Zibanejawhatever, Hayes, Desharnais and Lias Andersson (?). And they're right up against the cap. That Girardi buyout is ugly.