Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer Part 3

[Brandinho]

Wings fans seem a bit down on Larkin. I'd swap Maatta for him easily. Take back one of their many mediocre D-men for depth and cap reasons.

Fans might be down on him, but I can't imagine that the Wings would be willing to trade a recent 15th overall pick who also happens to be a local kid.

 

[mpp9]

Fans might be down on him, but I can't imagine that the Wings would be willing to trade a recent 15th overall pick who also happens to be a local kid.

True. But they've been looking to replace Lidstrom. Maatta at least has the potential to be that cerebral two way guy who could get Holland excited.

Both guys seem to be conplemtary at this point. And the Wings have a ton of that type of talent at forward.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not saying any of this. I'm just saying that you are blatantly wrong in saying that Cullen was notably worse last year than the year before.

As far as 3C goes, if the plan was to go the trade route from the start, then I don't see why anyone is at all surprised that we are waiting until after we sign our RFAs and know how much cap space we have. And the free agents really weren't good. And to back up to your question from your previous post, we are still two days away from the date we traded for Bonino in 2015. As for an example of a team successfully trading for a center after July or mid-season, how about LA winning the Cup after trading for Carter? Chicago trading for Vermette in 2015? Those guys won the Cup after those deals. Just last year you have Philly picking up Filpula at the deadline.

B Richards, Carter, Johansen, Jokinen, Riberio those are the big in season deals you see in terms of center depth. Players with some kind of issue, cap concern or soon to be up contract I mean, I'm fine taking the UFA route at the deadline to pick-up a third center. I just think you're taking a huge risk and that rarely works out. Also, you're sacrificing assets for one year rather than a long term solution.

If you want to make a deal for a long term solution it is either going to a blockbluster in season or a trade around trade deadline in today's NHL. Centers and defensemen are way too valuable and too many teams are in contention for the playoffs.

Flip and Bonino are mountains apart in their play and their age.

 

[ColePens]

I'm getting so sick of the we won 2 cups with x player, obviously we are fine argument.

We wop a cup with Ron friggin Hainsey as a starting dman. Does that mean we need to go out and sign another piece of trash dman in order to win again?

And personally I get sick of when people call Ron Hainsey a trash dman when he played legit minutes for the Pens and was actually a huge part of their success. He didn't deserve being re-signed by the Pens with our current situation, obviously, but he was a crucial part of us winning the Cup.

Did he have a few bumps in the road that were frustrating? Yeah... because hew as asked to play top minutes and he's not a top dman anymore. But he's 100% a solid guy to put in your 6 spots because he can eat more minutes than your typical #5/6. He was overpaid in FA, but that's what happens with Cup winners.

People need to stop trashing the guy because while he did have his moments of suck, he actually was a key part of our defense during that run. Why people refuse to admit that is something I just cannot comprehend.

 

[Gurglesons]

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Rutherford is hoping on Pouliot making Olli expendable for an in season move for a similar young, defensive cost controlled center.

 

[Ogrezilla]

B Richards, Carter, Johansen, Jokinen, Riberio those are the big in season deals you see in terms of center depth. Players with some kind of issue, cap concern or soon to be up contract I mean, I'm fine taking the UFA route at the deadline to pick-up a third center. I just think you're taking a huge risk and that rarely works out. Also, you're sacrificing assets for one year rather than a long term solution.

If you want to make a deal for a long term solution it is either going to a blockbluster in season or a trade around trade deadline in today's NHL. Centers and defensemen are way too valuable and too many teams are in contention for the playoffs.

Flip and Bonino are mountains apart in their play and their age.

so add Boyle to Toronto, Hanzal to Min, etc. Again, both just last year.

 

[Pens x]

Josh Yohe has mentioned in a chat that GMJR really likes Jordan Staal, and has had talks to acquire him in the past few years(also noted that it doesn't mean he's a top trade target).
With Carolina's cap being a "mess" what could it take to bring him back to the Burgh?

His salary is $6M until year 2023-2024 when he's a UFA, so they Carolina retaining some salary would be very ideal.

Interesting. I think Jordan Staal is one of the most overrated players in the league but we desperately need a third line center. $6 million is pricey for third line player. He's probably overpaid by $1.5 mill a year. However, I doubt Carolina would retain salary unless we severely overpay him.

I have wondered if he is happy in Carolina after Eric left. Plus the Canes are nowhere near contenders.

 

[ColePens]

I'm not worried about having that ideal 3C to start the season. Traditionally, in the regular season, 2 good scoring lines is enough as you're not playing the same team 7-times in a row, you get more breaks, games are less intense and you get to face some weaker foes.

I'd rather see JR be patient and, if necessary, use the absence to give some reps to those guys waiting in the wings. Maybe some of them will really surprise us. Who would have thought at the beginning of the 2015-16 season we'd win a Cup with Sheary, Rust and Kuhnhackl playing prominent roles? Or this past season with Jake, Rowney, Wilson and, even though they didn't get as many games, Archibald and Ruhwedel?

IMO, there's guys beyond Sprong & ZAR who could end up being one of those guys. Let's try em out!

Welcome back, Travis! I finally get to agree with you again. I think we need to just let things come to us in the first part of the year. We have guys who have to play because they can't hit waivers. Let's see what they are all about first. See if they can take ownership of their career and turn it into gold. If not - we can go find our 3C. No need to overpay now. We can make a hockey trade during the season. I guarantee it.

And I'm always scared when JR pulls a trigger on a guy he really wants. He openly admits he will overpay for a specific player he wants. That can be scary.

Saw a quick interview of Phil on the Pens instagram (will or will not questions). They asked if he would use a stick with less than 65 flex. He said he will not and that he had a lot of trouble this year so might change it into the new season.

That's pretty cool and definitely something to watch. He might start the year cold while he gets used to his release/flex, but that will pay dividends to be frustrated early with a change and be comfortable when it matters.

Can't see JR committing to 4 years at big money to a 33 year old, but Nielsen is just about as perfect as it gets for a 3C for us right now. Having he and Cullen would open up things for Sid.

Detroit should be looking to move him for picks/prospects, but Holland's too delusional most likely.

It's awful. They have one of the worst teams in the league and are at the max cap with AA still to sign. Those bad contracts aren't all ending soon either.

Detroit/LA are two teams that went vet heavy and gave these term contracts to get lower cap hits and they are paying dearly for it. It's funny how so many people loved the idea of those crazy term/lower cap hit deals, and they just aren't working out.

And Detroit's focus on just making the playoffs instead of doing a tiny rebuild to get youth really cost them dearly. They have solid pieces on their team. But in the last 5 years, they were clearly not going to win the Cup and I felt like they focused so hard on trying to just keep the streak alive. That streak is as much as a blessing as it is a curse. They needed to commit just a few years earlier to a tiny rebuild. Hell not even a rebuild, just a quick retooling for youth. They dropped the ball big time.

And say what you want, JR has done a terrific (needs more credit) job of not getting sucked into bad long term contracts for vets. He could have been dumb and handed Lovejoy some Cup winning contract. He could have tried to keep Kunitz/Bones/Fehr/etc. But he's letting those guys walk and he's keeping our younger guys to realistic and fair deals. He's doing a fantastic job. But knowing how he trades for players he loves, it can always scare ya.

 

[ColePens]

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Rutherford is hoping on Pouliot making Olli expendable for an in season move for a similar young, defensive cost controlled center.

Why would anyone have this thought? What would make you want to see DP take on a role that Maatta had? I mean seriously? Blows my mind when people want to trade Maatta for a 3C.

Maatta is another guy who actually had a solid playoffs albeit his bumps in the road were painful and led to some goals against. But when we needed him, he did turn it up a notch. If you even remotely think DP could handle Maatta's responsibility night in/night out, you are crazy.

DP needs to fight for that #6 spot and he needs to take it. He's not going to be handed Maatta's role and do well. That's putting him in a bad spot. One he will fail easily.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why would anyone have this thought? What would make you want to see DP take on a role that Maatta had? I mean seriously? Blows my mind when people want to trade Maatta for a 3C.

Maatta is another guy who actually had a solid playoffs albeit his bumps in the road were painful and led to some goals against. But when we needed him, he did turn it up a notch. If you even remotely think DP could handle Maatta's responsibility night in/night out, you are crazy.

DP needs to fight for that #6 spot and he needs to take it. He's not going to be handed Maatta's role and do well. That's putting him in a bad spot. One he will fail easily.

I love Maatta and think he is worth the contract, but he is our most valuable trade piece, especially if someone goes down with injury and Pooh shines.

so add Boyle to Toronto, Hanzal to Min, etc. Again, both just last year.

I agree. We can make a deal for a one year center solution around Jan-Feb or the trade deadline and probably get a decent piece. That doesn't help if Malkin goes down until March with a leg injury in November and if we don't resign Cullen, a player like Desharnais would've been really helpful. Who on the UFA market is helping our center depth right now? Also, if that situation happens and we are icing a center package of Crosby, Rowney, Cullen, X there is a good chance we could potentially miss the playoffs.

We are forced to make a trade and we are back to back Stanley Cup champs, that isn't how I want to be set up when making a move for a position as important as a 3C on this team. All I'm saying is the player that we want for our 3C is rarely avaliable right now or in the beginning of the season. Rutherford has the history of focusing on players and giving up major pieces for them. I don't really want to see what kind of deal he may have to settle for.

 

[Rufus]

I love Maatta and think he is worth the contract, but he is our most valuable trade piece, especially if someone goes down with injury and Pooh shines.



I agree. We can make a deal for a one year center solution around Jan-Feb or the trade deadline and probably get a decent piece. That doesn't help if Malkin goes down until March with a leg injury in November and if we don't resign Cullen, a player like Desharnais would've been really helpful. Who on the UFA market is helping our center depth right now? Also, if that situation happens and we are icing a center package of Crosby, Rowney, Cullen, X there is a good chance we could potentially miss the playoffs.

We are forced to make a trade and we are back to back Stanley Cup champs, that isn't how I want to be set up when making a move for a position as important as a 3C on this team. All I'm saying is the player that we want for our 3C is rarely avaliable right now or in the beginning of the season. Rutherford has the history of focusing on players and giving up major pieces for them. I don't really want to see what kind of deal he may have to settle for.

The only way Pouliot plays at all is if the defense gets ravaged by injuries because he is the #8 defenseman right now. I don't see how he could get enough opportunities to shine where JR would be comfortable trading Maatta

 

[Speaking Moistly]

JR and friends are probably desperately hoping Pouliot can be an NHL player in some capacity.

 

[ColePens]

I love Maatta and think he is worth the contract, but he is our most valuable trade piece, especially if someone goes down with injury and Pooh shines.

To get a legit 3C, I don't think we need to move a potential top 4 dman. There are targets out there you could probably get for a pick. Especially come closer to trade deadline. If salary needs to be shed, unfortunately Hags is the first to have to go IMO. And I do not want to see him moved because he is so versatile for this team. But if salary is needed, for whatever reason, Hags is the one we can move on from as we have a lot of speedy wingers up and down the line up. Hopefully we don't have to do that.

I honestly think we can obtain a great 3C for a pick and a player like Kuhn who could be very useful to many teams. No need to hand away a young #4/5 dman who has potential of being better and signed long term.

 

[#1GuinFan]

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Rutherford is hoping on Pouliot making Olli expendable for an in season move for a similar young, defensive cost controlled center.

Here's your problem .
Stop the bolded and you have your answer

 

[Ogrezilla]

I love Maatta and think he is worth the contract, but he is our most valuable trade piece, especially if someone goes down with injury and Pooh shines.



I agree. We can make a deal for a one year center solution around Jan-Feb or the trade deadline and probably get a decent piece. That doesn't help if Malkin goes down until March with a leg injury in November and if we don't resign Cullen, a player like Desharnais would've been really helpful. Who on the UFA market is helping our center depth right now? Also, if that situation happens and we are icing a center package of Crosby, Rowney, Cullen, X there is a good chance we could potentially miss the playoffs.

We are forced to make a trade and we are back to back Stanley Cup champs, that isn't how I want to be set up when making a move for a position as important as a 3C on this team. All I'm saying is the player that we want for our 3C is rarely avaliable right now or in the beginning of the season. Rutherford has the history of focusing on players and giving up major pieces for them. I don't really want to see what kind of deal he may have to settle for.

I'd rather the kind of deal JR goes for than bringing in Desharnais.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The Eric Fehr comment is redundant, because we don't have the depth or the cap to employ two centers that are going to push Rowney to the wing like we did in 2016. Let's see what happens to Rowney when people have actually seen tape on him. Fehr actually put up goals in the 2016 run rather than being a scratch and putting up minimal assists.

You're the one who brought up Fehr, and Rowney's been every bit as good so far as Fehr was when we won the Cup. And I'm quite positive that no team will be going out of their way to gameplan for the subtleties of Carter ****ing Rowney's game.

I'm not assuming the worst. I'm being realistic about what kind of center we are probably going to be acquiring. Bonino and Cullen were diamonds in the rough especially considering what we gave up to acquire Bones. That deal isn't just going to magically happen and we've seen what happens in the playoffs when you have a player of Sutter's caliber as a 3rd center.

Nope. You're pining for Desharnais, who is a proven piece of crap. There's no doubt that we'll be landing a 3C better than David Desharnais. Stick around for the big reveal that only surprises you.

Cullen was already notably different last year. I don't want to think what he will look like this year. Especially if our bottom six is centered by only Cullen and Rowney.

Yeah, he was different...he increased his TOI, SHTOI/G, FO%, and production in the 2017 playoffs from the 2016 playoffs.

For reference's sake, Cullen could have a significant dropoff and still be miles better than David Desharnais.

Desharnais would've been such a perfect move for us. One million dollars for a player that can score in a fourth line role and not look terrible playing with players like Hagelin and Kessel when Malkin or Crosby inevitably goes down. Insurance in depth are what won us the cup last year. We lost a lot of our depth last year and we literally haven't replaced any of it outside of Hunwick. It is poor planning and depth can't just be magically constructed throughout the season. Hainsey and Streit were acquired last year at the deadline, but we had Daley coming back from injury, Ruh being a relevant AHL call-up, etc.

Your argument that the Pens have planned poorly is that they haven't acquired a 3C yet, and in the process missed out on a tiny one-dimensional center who scored 14 points in 49 games last year.

Think about that. And then remember how premature you've been when Desharnais sucks again and we have a much better 3C.

Rowney and Ruh were nice because of their ability to step-in and replace players in the short term. Now we are expecting players that excelled in the short term to be our depth. It honestly just reeks so much of Chicago in 2014.

No, you're expecting that. Everybody else understands that it's July and games don't start until October, and it's been a fairly regular thing for us not to have our roster completely filled in by around this time.

Also, please show me a center deal in the last five even ten years that has been what we need done after July or in season where the team is giving up major assets.

Teams acquire centers that help them all the time, including around this time last year when we re-signed Cullen, and around this time the year before when we traded for Bones.

Look at what Rutherford has given up in some of his bad deals for marginal players. For every success story like Hagelin or Hainsey there is a Lovejoy or Winnik trade.

Not with the Pens there's not.

I like the Reaves trade, but honestly it is an overpayment for a player Rutherford wanted. He is notorious for that and it isn't like he has a prisitine record.

Find me another GM with a better trading record since he took over here.

I was as critical as anyone of JR's first year here, but what you're saying is patently false.

I agree. We can make a deal for a one year center solution around Jan-Feb or the trade deadline and probably get a decent piece. That doesn't help if Malkin goes down until March with a leg injury in November and if we don't resign Cullen, a player like Desharnais would've been really helpful. Who on the UFA market is helping our center depth right now? Also, if that situation happens and we are icing a center package of Crosby, Rowney, Cullen, X there is a good chance we could potentially miss the playoffs.

Yeah I'm sure a guy who scored 14 points in 49 games last year would've been able to fill in for Malkin seamlessly.

 

[mpp9]

I think Im leaning towards waiting as long as possible to see who's truly available. Any decent 3C will be there come deadline. And you can always pick guys up on waivers or buy low during the season if need be.

I'm hoping JR is as greedy as me.

 

[Peat]

I'm hoping that Pouliot can surprise us all and make one of our top 4 dmen surplus to requirements. I hope all of our prospects do things like that.

I sure as hell ain't expecting it though. Basing a trade strategy on that hope would be incredibly optimistic, to put it kindly.

 

[Gurglesons]

You're the one who brought up Fehr, and Rowney's been every bit as good so far as Fehr was when we won the Cup. And I'm quite positive that no team will be going out of their way to gameplan for the subtleties of Carter ****ing Rowney's game.



Nope. You're pining for Desharnais, who is a proven piece of crap. There's no doubt that we'll be landing a 3C better than David Desharnais. Stick around for the big reveal that only surprises you.

I'm not pining for Desharnais and giving him a one year, one million deal to be our #4C with Rowney and Reaves on his wings would give this team more depth and cost very little.

I think that people will be way more surprised how much this team will be hurt if we lose both Cullen and Bonino and expect them to be replaced. To your comments about Fehr. Rowney was Fehr last year. Right now, we are asking Rowney to be Cullen. Do you think we are going to roll into the season with a solid answer at 3C, Matt Cullen, and Rowney all on this roster?

Your argument that the Pens have planned poorly is that they haven't acquired a 3C yet, and in the process missed out on a tiny one-dimensional center who scored 14 points in 49 games last year.

Think about that. And then remember how premature you've been when Desharnais sucks again and we have a much better 3C.

I'm advocating bringing in a risk so we have depth at center because we've seen how decimated this team gets by injuries and we can basically handle it at every position, but center.

Would you go into the season with a combination of Cole, Maatta, Letang, and Schultz with Pooh and Ruh? Because right now that is essentially what we are running as our center depth.

No, you're expecting that. Everybody else understands that it's July and games don't start until October, and it's been a fairly regular thing for us not to have our roster completely filled in by around this time.

Teams acquire centers that help them all the time, including around this time last year when we re-signed Cullen, and around this time the year before when we traded for Bones.

Find me another GM with a better trading record since he took over here.

I was as critical as anyone of JR's first year here, but what you're saying is patently false.

What issues did Shero make in his back to back years in trades? Of course all of our trades panned out. That's how you win cups.

Yeah I'm sure a guy who scored 14 points in 49 games last year would've been able to fill in for Malkin seamlessly.

It's the idea of having a bottom six combo like Fehr, Cullen, Bonino that insulates your young players. Right now our bottom six is a combo of Hagelin, Rowney and Cullen as "vets" with Wilson, Kuhn, Rust / Hornqvist filling it in. I don't know. I'm not advocating Desharnais is like a slam dunk or anything. Just a player that has proven he can play in the top six is what we need in our bottom six. Wilson, Kuhn, Rowney, and even Hagelin to this degree are all bottom sixers at this point. We need legitimate defensive depth in our bottom six and right now we only have it in Hagelin and Rowney really.

 

[tom_servo]

Look at what Rutherford has given up in some of his bad deals for marginal players. For every success story like Hagelin or Hainsey there is a Lovejoy or Winnik trade.

I like the Reaves trade, but honestly it is an overpayment for a player Rutherford wanted. He is notorious for that and it isn't like he has a prisitine record.

If we're talking about JR's record here... I think Lovejoy and Winnik are literally his only two bad moves (aside from Johnston, ahem). Even Lovejoy can be argued as at least a neutral move. I agree that his early fixation on Winnik cast suspicion, but JR's really been a marvel since about July 1, 2015. I can't think of a single move that wasn't a win in this long road since.

 

[The GM]

If we're talking about JR's record here... I think Lovejoy and Winnik are literally his only two bad moves (aside from Johnston, ahem). Even Lovejoy can be argued as at least a neutral move. I agree that his early fixation on Winnik cast suspicion, but JR's really been a marvel since about July 1, 2015. I can't think of a single move that wasn't a win in this long road since.

I agree. I was originally a little concerned with the Reid McNeill for Danny kristo deal. But it was just a domino that landed us that stud Hainsey.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm not worried about having that ideal 3C to start the season. Traditionally, in the regular season, 2 good scoring lines is enough as you're not playing the same team 7-times in a row, you get more breaks, games are less intense and you get to face some weaker foes.

I'd rather see JR be patient and, if necessary, use the absence to give some reps to those guys waiting in the wings. Maybe some of them will really surprise us. Who would have thought at the beginning of the 2015-16 season we'd win a Cup with Sheary, Rust and Kuhnhackl playing prominent roles? Or this past season with Jake, Rowney, Wilson and, even though they didn't get as many games, Archibald and Ruhwedel?

IMO, there's guys beyond Sprong & ZAR who could end up being one of those guys. Let's try em out!

So you are also advocating trying wingers at center?

Saying "hey let's try our young wingers as wingers rather than trading for a vet winger" is a reasonable statement. Suggesting putting a scoring winger at 3rd line center because "maybe some of them will really surprise us" is not a reasonable statement.

 

[Shady Machine]

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Rutherford is hoping on Pouliot making Olli expendable for an in season move for a similar young, defensive cost controlled center.

That certainly could be the case, but that's a big hope at this point. Going from not an NHLer to top 4 left dman in a season is a tough thing to do, particularly when you regressed the year before.

I do think Olli could be on the block with Hunwick/Cole replacing the minutes until Pouliot emerges or they can swing a replacement at the deadline.

Dumo-Letang
Cole/Hunwick-Schultz
Pouliot/Ruh-Cole/Hunwick

That's not amazing, but it's pretty solid. Obviously if Letang goes down, you have problems, but there is always a Hainsey type available at the deadline.

That said, Maatta is only on the block if you can get very good value and a big upgrade at 3C.

 

[Shady Machine]

To get a legit 3C, I don't think we need to move a potential top 4 dman. There are targets out there you could probably get for a pick. Especially come closer to trade deadline. If salary needs to be shed, unfortunately Hags is the first to have to go IMO. And I do not want to see him moved because he is so versatile for this team. But if salary is needed, for whatever reason, Hags is the one we can move on from as we have a lot of speedy wingers up and down the line up. Hopefully we don't have to do that.

I honestly think we can obtain a great 3C for a pick and a player like Kuhn who could be very useful to many teams. No need to hand away a young #4/5 dman who has potential of being better and signed long term.

Maybe we have a different definition of what a great 3C is because in my mind, nobody is trading a great 3C for a pick and freakin Kuhnhackl.

 

[SEALBound]

but what do we have to lose by waiting until he gets a chance like we did with Guentzel? Why rush it and take the risk that he's not ready? There's no real gain in creating a hole for him to fill right now. Depth is a great thing to have. If he comes in and earns a spot, make a spot for him then.

Absolutely nothing. Which is why that's what's going to happen. If we move a current roster player it means it's Dec/Jan/Feb and Sprong has forced MS and JRs hand.

I choose to imagine that she looks like Mike Sullivan with blonde wig.

You are only doing yourself a disservice.

Saw a quick interview of Phil on the Pens instagram (will or will not questions). They asked if he would use a stick with less than 65 flex. He said he will not and that he had a lot of trouble this year so might change it into the new season.

Oh man, have you ever taken a gander at Detroit's long-term cap situation? I don't know if any team in the league looks that sad. How the mighty have fallen.

Awful. Thing is though, they do have decent players. If all of them excel, they could have a decent team. I see them like Columbus last year. You look at the dreadful cap situation and wonder if they will ever be good. But like this year showed, even a mediocre-ish roster can do great things.

Josh Yohe has mentioned in a chat that GMJR really likes Jordan Staal, and has had talks to acquire him in the past few years(also noted that it doesn't mean he's a top trade target).
With Carolina's cap being a "mess" what could it take to bring him back to the Burgh?

His salary is $6M until year 2023-2024 when he's a UFA, so they Carolina retaining some salary would be very ideal.

Oh great, back to Staal. Carolina would want our cheap young studs like Guentzel and Sheary and/or Sprong. We would say no and for good reason. It's just not happening.

Wings fans seem a bit down on Larkin. I'd swap Maatta for him easily. Take back one of their many mediocre D-men for depth and cap reasons.

Would you make that trade if you were Detroit? If Guentzel had a down-ish year, would you trade him for Ericsson?

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Rutherford is hoping on Pouliot making Olli expendable for an in season move for a similar young, defensive cost controlled center.

The recent 1yr 800k contract Pouliot just got makes me think the exact opposite of this.

And I'm always scared when JR pulls a trigger on a guy he really wants. He openly admits he will overpay for a specific player he wants. That can be scary.

Detroit/LA are two teams that went vet heavy and gave these term contracts to get lower cap hits and they are paying dearly for it. It's funny how so many people loved the idea of those crazy term/lower cap hit deals, and they just aren't working out.

I don't mind overpaying sometimes if it's the right player. I thought we overpaid for Hagelin...but gosh dang did that work out. We paid 1st+ for Perron and a Perron+ for Hags. So 1st+Klinkhammer+Clendening for Hagelin...I would have said that's too much all things considered. Face value tells you Edmonton and Anaheim won those trades. Our two cups say otherwise. I have a lot of faith in Sullivan. A lot. I think him and JR talk a lot and are on the same page. So if JR thinks it's worth overpaying for a particular player...I will cautiously accept and hope for the best.

RE: those long low hit contracts, LA got what they needed. They have two Cups. Blackhawks got what they needed. Detroit got their 08 Cup and darn near 09 cup (if not for those meddling kids). All it comes down to is some of them performing and some of them not. Keith and Seabrook still performed very well. Toews and Kane were on sweetheart contracts. Hossa was arguably the best value in the league. Now...they are reaping what they sew. Toews and Kane are cap eating monsters, Hossa is all but done, and they are paying for Seabrook now. But like I said...they got their three Cups. LA ditched Richards but still has Carter who is still performing very well. They are just paying through the nose for Kopitar now. Detroit paid Zets, Dats, and Franzen. All things considered, they did what they needed to do. Franzen's noggin is mush now, Dats "retired", and Zets is still hanging in there. It's when you get to the 35+ regions that they start having that affect. Detroit is experiencing that now. Their issue is they put A LOT of faith (read money) in complimentary players. We thought Shero was nuts for resigning Kunitz and Dupuis to what he did...look at Nyquist and Abdelkader. Yikes. Those are offensive forces driving the play. They are your Kunitz and Dupuis. They put a lot of money into the wrong players.