Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer Part 3

[chethejet]

GMJR has one hole to fill no matter if Cullen returns or not. Who that is and at what cost will not be determined until the deal comes to fruition. They are not concerned as it is July. Next March will be the time to see what is what. for now I expect GMJR to make a deal that helps the Pens.

 

[Pens x]

GMJR has one hole to fill no matter if Cullen returns or not. Who that is and at what cost will not be determined until the deal comes to fruition. They are not concerned as it is July. Next March will be the time to see what is what. for now I expect GMJR to make a deal that helps the Pens.

I just hate that strategy because we have an obvious hole and we will just end up trading decent assets for rentals like Streit and Hainsey.

 

[Penske]

I'm getting so sick of the we won 2 cups with x player, obviously we are fine argument.

We wop a cup with Ron friggin Hainsey as a starting dman. Does that mean we need to go out and sign another piece of trash dman in order to win again?

You do need players with a varied range of skills though. The best team on paper doesn't always win. You need a good mix of things.

If you took out guys like Hornqvist, Hagelin and Rust and replaced them with better but similar skill sets to Guentzel, Kessel, Sheary we might have better players but not a better team.

That's not advocating for Hainsey though. I didn't want him playing those minutes but he did well enough not to kill us........barely

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Eric Fehr and Sutter were coming off a 33point season and a 20goal season. They were both better players than Rowney. We also were able to move Sutter in an absolute steal for Bones. If we are moving out a Sutter like piece it is someone like Sheary, Rust, or Maatta which ultimately does damage to our roster which we will have to fill in.

Fehr ended up scoring 14 points in 55 games en route to the 2016 Cup, which is very attainable for Rowney.

Nobody knows what we're moving for a 3C. We have a lot of options, and you're simply assuming the worst based on absolutely nothing.

I think your first paragraph is exactly how the management staff feels and that's the arrogance. Our team was able to starve off key injuries because of our center and defensive depth last year. Expecting a repeat of that or that every trade works out like Perron for Hagelin or Sutter for Bonino is arrogance. Signing a legitimate 4C solves these issues as it pushes Rowney to 13th forward and the 4C to their correct position. Otherwise if we wait for the season to start to find a 3C we have two legitimate options at center under Crosby and Malkin with one of Rowney or the 4C playing above their head in a 3C role.

There's nothing arrogant about being patient waiting for the right move and avoiding baseless Chicken Little hysterics.

We may well sign the best 4C in the league in Cullen. But again that requires patience, which is in very short supply in some quarters.

Right now we are hoping as a back to back champion someone is going to sell us a Bonino for pennies on the dollar and Rowney's thirty game stretch before the playoffs wasn't a hot streak. It's just poor planning in my opinion especially with Malkin and Crosby nortiously missing games.

None of it is poor planning, because as has been pointed out several times, the games start in October and we are currently in July. Just promise me you'll recant when we acquire a quality center instead of picking garbage like Desharnais off the scrapheap just because he was there.

We could very easily be forced to make a panic move selling futures and roster players for what should be a depth player you can acquire in Ufa

May God have mercy on us all.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I just hate that strategy because we have an obvious hole and we will just end up trading decent assets for rentals like Streit and Hainsey.

And look how poorly that turned out!

 

[Penske]

JR has said he has some targets but has to wait to see if they become available. I'm assuming that means once arbitration is done and capspace is determined for everyone. He has deals he can likely pull the trigger on right now.

Why wouldn't he wait to see if he can get the better option?

 

[Ogrezilla]

JR has said he has some targets but has to wait to see if they become available. I'm assuming that means once arbitration is done and capspace is determined for everyone. He has deals he can likely pull the trigger on right now.

Why wouldn't he wait to see if he can get the better option?

also, doesn't it make perfect sense for him to wait and see what the players we currently have actually cost? We got Dumoulin signed, but we're still waiting on Sheary.

 

[Penske]

also, doesn't it make perfect sense for him to wait and see what the players we currently have actually cost? We got Dumoulin signed, but we're still waiting on Sheary.

Exactly if we got a more expensive C cap wise then the arbitrators ruling isn't favourable to JR then we have to lose someone as a cap casualty. Once that is done maybe the team isn't better off.

Best to wait on Sheary so he's not forced to do something.

 

[mpp9]

Can't see JR committing to 4 years at big money to a 33 year old, but Nielsen is just about as perfect as it gets for a 3C for us right now. Having he and Cullen would open up things for Sid.

Detroit should be looking to move him for picks/prospects, but Holland's too delusional most likely.

 

[Penske]

Saw a quick interview of Phil on the Pens instagram (will or will not questions). They asked if he would use a stick with less than 65 flex. He said he will not and that he had a lot of trouble this year so might change it into the new season.

 

[Coach Travis]

I'm not worried about having that ideal 3C to start the season. Traditionally, in the regular season, 2 good scoring lines is enough as you're not playing the same team 7-times in a row, you get more breaks, games are less intense and you get to face some weaker foes.

I'd rather see JR be patient and, if necessary, use the absence to give some reps to those guys waiting in the wings. Maybe some of them will really surprise us. Who would have thought at the beginning of the 2015-16 season we'd win a Cup with Sheary, Rust and Kuhnhackl playing prominent roles? Or this past season with Jake, Rowney, Wilson and, even though they didn't get as many games, Archibald and Ruhwedel?

IMO, there's guys beyond Sprong & ZAR who could end up being one of those guys. Let's try em out!

 

[Coach Travis]

Saw a quick interview of Phil on the Pens instagram (will or will not questions). They asked if he would use a stick with less than 65 flex. He said he will not and that he had a lot of trouble this year so might change it into the new season.

I own a 65 Flex stick and while it's fun to shoot with any hard pass will flex it back and the puck will go right under your blade. And in puck battles, forget about it. If someone is pressing on your blade with their's you're going to lose that battle 10/10.

 

[Coach Travis]

Can't see JR committing to 4 years at big money to a 33 year old, but Nielsen is just about as perfect as it gets for a 3C for us right now. Having he and Cullen would open up things for Sid.

Detroit should be looking to move him for picks/prospects, but Holland's too delusional most likely.

Oh man, have you ever taken a gander at Detroit's long-term cap situation? I don't know if any team in the league looks that sad. How the mighty have fallen.

 

[Penske]

Oh man, have you ever taken a gander at Detroit's long-term cap situation? I don't know if any team in the league looks that sad. How the mighty have fallen.

It's awful. They have one of the worst teams in the league and are at the max cap with AA still to sign. Those bad contracts aren't all ending soon either.

 

[Gurglesons]

Fehr ended up scoring 14 points in 55 games en route to the 2016 Cup, which is very attainable for Rowney.

Nobody knows what we're moving for a 3C. We have a lot of options, and you're simply assuming the worst based on absolutely nothing.

The Eric Fehr comment is redundant, because we don't have the depth or the cap to employ two centers that are going to push Rowney to the wing like we did in 2016. Let's see what happens to Rowney when people have actually seen tape on him. Fehr actually put up goals in the 2016 run rather than being a scratch and putting up minimal assists.

I'm not assuming the worst. I'm being realistic about what kind of center we are probably going to be acquiring. Bonino and Cullen were diamonds in the rough especially considering what we gave up to acquire Bones. That deal isn't just going to magically happen and we've seen what happens in the playoffs when you have a player of Sutter's caliber as a 3rd center.

There's nothing arrogant about being patient waiting for the right move and avoiding baseless Chicken Little hysterics.

We may well sign the best 4C in the league in Cullen. But again that requires patience, which is in very short supply in some quarters.

Cullen was already notably different last year. I don't want to think what he will look like this year. Especially if our bottom six is centered by only Cullen and Rowney.

None of it is poor planning, because as has been pointed out several times, the games start in October and we are currently in July. Just promise me you'll recant when we acquire a quality center instead of picking garbage like Desharnais off the scrapheap just because he was there.



May God have mercy on us all.

Desharnais would've been such a perfect move for us. One million dollars for a player that can score in a fourth line role and not look terrible playing with players like Hagelin and Kessel when Malkin or Crosby inevitably goes down. Insurance in depth are what won us the cup last year. We lost a lot of our depth last year and we literally haven't replaced any of it outside of Hunwick. It is poor planning and depth can't just be magically constructed throughout the season. Hainsey and Streit were acquired last year at the deadline, but we had Daley coming back from injury, Ruh being a relevant AHL call-up, etc.

Rowney and Ruh were nice because of their ability to step-in and replace players in the short term. Now we are expecting players that excelled in the short term to be our depth. It honestly just reeks so much of Chicago in 2014.

Also, please show me a center deal in the last five even ten years that has been what we need done after July or in season where the team is giving up major assets.

Look at what Rutherford has given up in some of his bad deals for marginal players. For every success story like Hagelin or Hainsey there is a Lovejoy or Winnik trade.

I like the Reaves trade, but honestly it is an overpayment for a player Rutherford wanted. He is notorious for that and it isn't like he has a prisitine record.

 

[mpp9]

Oh man, have you ever taken a gander at Detroit's long-term cap situation? I don't know if any team in the league looks that sad. How the mighty have fallen.

Right up there with Colorado. It's mind bottling.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Cullen was already notably different last year. I don't want to think what he will look like this year. Especially if our bottom six is centered by only Cullen and Rowney.

Yes, Cullen had a notable drop-off from 32 points in 82 games all the way down to 31 points in 72 games. And in the playoffs, it gets even worse. He dropped from 6 points down to...9 points

Seriously, Cullen was great last year just like he had been the year prior.

 

[Stad]

Right up there with Colorado. It's mind bottling.

I absolutely love it. **** both those teams.

 

[BlackAndGold87]

Josh Yohe has mentioned in a chat that GMJR really likes Jordan Staal, and has had talks to acquire him in the past few years(also noted that it doesn't mean he's a top trade target).
With Carolina's cap being a "mess" what could it take to bring him back to the Burgh?

His salary is $6M until year 2023-2024 when he's a UFA, so they Carolina retaining some salary would be very ideal.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Josh Yohe has mentioned in a chat that GMJR really likes Jordan Staal, and has had talks to acquire him in the past few years(also noted that it doesn't mean he's a top trade target).
With Carolina's cap being a "mess" what could it take to bring him back to the Burgh?

His salary is $6M until year 2023-2024 when he's a UFA, so they Carolina retaining some salary would be very ideal.

it would almost certainly cost too much to acquire him, especially if we somehow get them to retain.

 

[BlackAndGold87]

it would almost certainly cost too much to acquire him, especially if we somehow get them to retain.

Yeah that's what I was thinking, if GMJR really wanted him and the fact he isn't a Penguin shows it's probably a steep price.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes, Cullen had a notable drop-off from 32 points in 82 games all the way down to 31 points in 72 games. And in the playoffs, it gets even worse. He dropped from 6 points down to...9 points

Seriously, Cullen was great last year just like he had been the year prior.

I like Cullen a lot. I'm just saying he's at the age where he could just magically drop off. Also, we are making an assumption that he is going to resign with us. Also, are you comfortable bumping Cullen up to 16-17 minutes a game like Bonino was playing and expecting him to be able to handle another 82 game season?

What happens if Cullen signs with the Wild?

Without Bonino who is eating PK time? Our PK was terrible last year with Bones and Cullen? If you're playing Crosby or Malkin on the PK how is that effecting their production?

The loss of Bonino and Cullen wouldn't be detrimental to this team. The issue is there are no players to replace them. You have to sacrifice a big piece for a player that can bring both what Cullen and Bones did. I guess you hope you get one of our prospects to ease the hit of Cullen and bring in a 3C, but most of the options I see in here are just simple Brandon Sutter rehashes.

 

[billybudd]

Josh Yohe has mentioned in a chat that GMJR really likes Jordan Staal, and has had talks to acquire him in the past few years(also noted that it doesn't mean he's a top trade target).
With Carolina's cap being a "mess" what could it take to bring him back to the Burgh?

His salary is $6M until year 2023-2024 when he's a UFA, so they Carolina retaining some salary would be very ideal.

Staal or ownership (not management, ownership) would need to force it and Jordan would need to be a hardass about his No Movement Clause.

In a 30 team bidding war, the Pens don't have the expendable assets to get him. If they're the only bidder, the Pens can do it.

Far as forcing a move, it's anyone's guess if that ever happens, but regarding the NMC thing, manbearpig keeps telling people Jordan would happily play 3C here again. In the event a Staal move were ever initiated, I'd call it likely that his first instinct would be to force a trade to Pitt.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I like Cullen a lot. I'm just saying he's at the age where he could just magically drop off. Also, we are making an assumption that he is going to resign with us. Also, are you comfortable bumping Cullen up to 16-17 minutes a game like Bonino was playing and expecting him to be able to handle another 82 game season?

What happens if Cullen signs with the Wild?

Without Bonino who is eating PK time? Our PK was terrible last year with Bones and Cullen? If you're playing Crosby or Malkin on the PK how is that effecting their production?

The loss of Bonino and Cullen wouldn't be detrimental to this team. The issue is there are no players to replace them. You have to sacrifice a big piece for a player that can bring both what Cullen and Bones did. I guess you hope you get one of our prospects to ease the hit of Cullen and bring in a 3C, but most of the options I see in here are just simple Brandon Sutter rehashes.

I'm not saying any of this. I'm just saying that you are blatantly wrong in saying that Cullen was notably worse last year than the year before.

As far as 3C goes, if the plan was to go the trade route from the start, then I don't see why anyone is at all surprised that we are waiting until after we sign our RFAs and know how much cap space we have. And the free agents really weren't good. And to back up to your question from your previous post, we are still two days away from the date we traded for Bonino in 2015. As for an example of a team successfully trading for a center after July or mid-season, how about LA trading for Carter? Chicago trading for Vermette in 2015? Those guys won the Cup after those deals. Just last year you have Philly picking up Filpula, Minnesota picking up Hanzal, Toronto getting Boyle...

 

[mpp9]

Wings fans seem a bit down on Larkin. I'd swap Maatta for him easily. Take back one of their many mediocre D-men for depth and cap reasons.