Salary Cap: Salary Cap/Roster Thread - As we look forward

[Honour Over Glory]

I will be content with Kessel for 5th OA straightup because I do believe the relationship is that toxic.

Yeah, no.

I'm not even sure what I would want from Arizona if that was the case, Perlini would need to be added for sure, also another prospect as well as that 5 OA pick.

 

[The GM]

I will be content with Kessel for 5th OA straightup because I do believe the relationship is that toxic.

I will be content with Kessel for 5th OA straightup because I do believe the relationship is that toxic.

As long as JR doesn’t go completely off the board with the pick, and then pull off his mask scooby doo style to reveal it was actually ray Shero

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I will be content with Kessel for 5th OA straightup because I do believe the relationship is that toxic.

You better have a plan to get Patches outta Montreal in that case.

 

[mynameisnick4]

I just don't see how the Pens get better moving Kessel, only worse. Like how petty can grown adults be that they their solution to not getting along is sending one out of town making the team considerably worse? A high draft pick means nothing to this team at this stage.

 

[Riptide]

Yeah, no.

I'm not even sure what I would want from Arizona if that was the case, Perlini would need to be added for sure, also another prospect as well as that 5 OA pick.

Agreed. The 5OA isn't nearly enough for me. I don't care how good the prospect is, that's not nearly enough to wait X years until they're ready and to take the chance that they bust. One would need to add, and add significantly.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I just don't see how the Pens get better moving Kessel, only worse. Like how petty can grown adults be that they their solution to not getting along is sending one out of town making the team considerably worse? A high draft pick means nothing to this team at this stage.

It depends on the return. What if you could pull off Martinez and Toffoli for Kessel? You get better with that trade.

 

[Jacob]

Kessel for Panarin

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Agreed. The 5OA isn't nearly enough for me. I don't care how good the prospect is, that's not nearly enough to wait X years until they're ready and to take the chance that they bust. One would need to add, and add significantly.

Yeah and Arizona, while they'll be on the rise now that they are starting to get fixed up, just might not have enough to give up for Kessel, it'd also be a backwards move for them too.

I was scanning through the 1st round picks, if that was what JR wanted in addition to whatever, it's a shame Edmonton likely isn't a destination choice for Phil. I think Phil likely wants to stay closer to the east coast.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Kessel for Panarin

The breadman would be fantastic (I'd also want a 2nd out of Columbus), but then it's....Columbus. Didn't they try to screw us in the expansion draft and Vegas was like nah man.

 

[The Greatest 101]

Kessel has allegedly quit on this team in the playoffs due to the bad relatinship with Sully. You have to move one of them.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The wing group before that also had little skill, though. You're ignoring that the Penguins wing depth was still terrible even with Neal. Let's not sugarcoat it, the Penguins wing depth wasn't good enough until Sheary, Rust and Kuhnhackl broke onto the stage and became NHLers and the Penguins added guys like Hagelin for underachievers. I get why people say Kessel was the big game changer for the Penguins, but he really wasn't. Getting that young talent in both 2016 and 2017 was the biggest factor in the Penguins turnaround, not swapping Hornqvist for Neal or adding Kessel.

A whole lot of things came together...Horny, Sullivan, the WBS kids, Hags, Daley, Schultz, Murray...but Kessel's production on wing we'd been missing since Neal left was a big one, and one we shouldn't give up unless we have an extremely good reason to.

The forward depth argument for moving Kessel is bogus. We're already a deep team - deeper than the Cup Champion Caps. But when 3 of your best forwards are injured and your coach insists on playing ham-and-eggers over talent in a number of other support roles, you're going to have trouble scoring.

 

[Jacob]

Kessel has allegedly quit on this team in the playoffs due to the bad relatinship with Sully. You have to move one of them.

Even the biggest Kessel rumor monger, Madden, said Kessel’s effort or commitment was never in question in the playoffs or any other time.

He looked 1/3rd banged up, 1/3rd frustrated and 1/3rd snakebit

 

[canadianguy77]

Kessel could be huge for a team that has a hard time filling seats and selling jerseys. There might be a few owners/gm's out there who would overpay just for that aspect.

 

[canadianguy77]

Even the biggest Kessel rumor monger, Madden, said Kessel’s effort or commitment was never in question in the playoffs or any other time.

He looked 1/3rd banged up, 1/3rd frustrated and 1/3rd snakebit

He looked like garbage pretty much all playoffs long until he was put on a line with Malkin for a few periods. There might be something to all of this.

 

[Andy99]

Kessel for Panarin

Can you see Phil playing for Torts lol? If he hates playing for Sully....wow

 

[Empoleon8771]

A whole lot of things came together...Horny, Sullivan, the WBS kids, Hags, Daley, Schultz, Murray...but Kessel's production on wing we'd been missing since Neal left was a big one, and one we shouldn't give up unless we have an extremely good reason to.

And it wasn't the biggest one, because the Penguins don't win the cup if their forward depth doesn't become as strong as it became in 2016. That was the transformation of the Penguins, not adding Kessel. Kessel added a player that they needed, the WBS group coming up took them to a championship caliber team.

Teams who win the cup most of the time win based on depth, not based on top end talent. This year is a perfect example of that concept. Guentzel and Crosby scoring like 2 points a game wasn't enough to get them beyond the 2nd round, because their depth just couldn't cut it. Kessel filled the biggest need the Penguins have had since losing Hossa, but the young depth is what made that team elite.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

If/when Kessel is moved, it'll be because of things that don't appear on a statline. It'll be because of the impeding drop off in play due to age, as the wheels are the first thing to go and Kessel's entire game is predicated on his skating. It'll be because Sully and JR are done trying to keep Kessel composed or dealing with his emotional breakdowns mid-game. It'll be because the team wants to move him for something valuable before it's too late.

 

[Jacob]

I think the biggest thing was moving out our two slowest players (Perron & Scuderi) and bringing in two of the best skaters in the league. That singlehandedly changed the identity of the team.

 

[MayorofWBS]

Interesting thought that someone else has probably had, but I haven't seen it posted here. How do people feel about targeting JG Pageau from Ottawa and playing Brassard on LW? I actually like that idea, you get your long term 3C who can play heavy minute with Pageau and you also get a pretty clear LW upgrade with Brassard. I don't know what it would cost for Pageau, but I can't imagine it would be too crazy expensive. Rust for Pageau may make a good amount of sense.

If that doesn't float your boat, Rust for Bjugstad may also be an option that works. Bjugstad had a really good season last year, I'm surprised to see he finished with 49 points and really good possession stats while getting more Dzone starts last season.

In the NHL, Bjugstad is best when he plays RW. If the plan is to have him play center, we'll be very disappointed with Bjugstad.

 

[Shady Machine]

The Pens got the lesser player in the Neal for Hornqvist deal.

The Pens were a better team after the deal because Hornqvist added to and augmented the mix.

Many people here evaluate hockey trades through the former prism and without thought as to the possibility of the latter.

Thankfully, GM's aren't in the rotisserie league business.

The Pens were a better team with Hornqvist and Kessel. As you recall they were bounced in 5 games against Rangers with Horny. Of course there were a variety of reasons for that, but subtract Kessel and just have Horny vs Neal and it’s debatable how much better they would have been.

Don’t get me wrong I love Horny, but just swapping Kessel for a lesser player but better “fit” only works IMO if Sprong is ready for the dance.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Kessel has allegedly quit on this team in the playoffs due to the bad relatinship with Sully. You have to move one of them.

Do you ever just ask yourself "man this lie is stupid, I shouldn't post it."

Because you really should.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think the biggest thing was moving out our two slowest players (Perron & Scuderi) and bringing in two of the best skaters in the league. That singlehandedly changed the identity of the team.

It's why I would look at moving Maatta before even thinking about Kessel, if Phil wants out then he wants out especially if Sullivan still doesn't see putting him with Malkin as a full time option, then you just might as well because Phil isn't going to be happy and I see his side as well as the Pens side in why.

But Olli, dude just stands out so much as a guy that does not fit.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I see all these posts saying Phil is a 92 point player, hes really not that player at all.

Just because you have a good season that doesn't mean that's who you are as a player.

Sidney Crosby isn't a 50 goal scorer because he had one really good year where he put up more goals then he usually scores.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's why I would look at moving Maatta before even thinking about Kessel, if Phil wants out then he wants out especially if Sullivan still doesn't see putting him with Malkin as a full time option, then you just might as well because Phil isn't going to be happy and I see his side as well as the Pens side in why.

But Olli, dude just stands out so much as a guy that does not fit.

My big concern with trading Maatta is that I'm doubtful that you'll bring in a guy with equal puck moving talent that can skate dramatically better than Maatta. If I'm trading Maatta, I want an elite skater back to replace him, I don't want someone who's just a better skater than Maatta. I'd rather keep him if I'm only getting a moderate improvement in skating while trading him, I want a massive improvement if I'm moving him.

 

[Pens1566]

I think the biggest thing was moving out our two slowest players (Perron & Scuderi) and bringing in two of the best skaters in the league. That singlehandedly changed the identity of the team.

Scuderi out, Daley in is/was really underrated around here.