He served his purpose here, he wasn´t that expensive for us, served a purpose and now when he is almost a negative player for us we can still get a Zucker+ for him? I like it.
jfc... for the sake of transparency:
GF/GA, trailing, with empty net: 2/13 (-11)
GF/GA, all-situations, powerplay: 44/13 (-13)
Thats -24 on the season right off the bat on empty netters and shorties.
GF/GA, all-situations, even-strength: 56-62 (-6)
GF/GA, all-situations, 5v5: 52-44 (+8)
Not good, but not catastrophically bad.
GF/GA, all-situations, all-strengths: 100-75 (+25)
Like it wasn't a great season for him, he obviously ****ed up quite a bit this year just off the eye-test but if you actually think that he was borderline a NEGATIVE player... sorry but no, he still ended up helping them win more games than they lost.
I just hate this.
Everyone always talks about players coming to Pittsburgh and getting 15 more points than their career norms if they play on Crosby's wing, but when was the last time that actually happened?
Guarentee you that Zucker becomes a 50ish point guy in the Burgh, while Kessel goes on to revamp Minny's entire offense.
And also, as much it pains me to say this, give me JJ any day if the alternative is the mutilated corpse of Viktor Rask. That dude is literally pit stank personified.
Kessel can revamp that offense all he wants as he also revamps their standard for defensive commitment.
Kessel's lack of defense was the least of our defensive woes.
This team's luxuriously paid, garbage tower blueline is what cost us more than anything. And aside from JJ, word is, they'll all still be here.
First of all, Zucker scored 65pts a year ago with nothing close to Sid and Jake as linemates. Secondly, Phil's a friggin' disaster at ES--which, last I checked, is like 17 of his 20 minutes a game. He throws a tantrum if he doesn't play with Geno, and they make each other dramatically worse.I just hate this.
Everyone always talks about players coming to Pittsburgh and getting 15 more points than their career norms if they play on Crosby's wing, but when was the last time that actually happened?
Guarentee you that Zucker becomes a 50ish point guy in the Burgh, while Kessel goes on to revamp Minny's entire offense.
And also, as much it pains me to say this, give me JJ any day if the alternative is the mutilated corpse of Viktor Rask. That dude is literally pit stank personified.
It’s not, and the numbers highlight that. Kessel sucks defensively and doesn’t want to play away from Geno, this dragging him down. It is necessary that he goes barring an attitude adjustment when it comes to playing on the third line.
It's not necessarily that he sucks defensively. He sucks, like he is the single worst forward on the team, at getting and retaining possession of the puck. As a by-product, the team frequently plays without the puck while he's on the ice. That means they'll be playing in the defensive zone. Geno isn't the center you want in that situation.
That’s like.. what defense is.. plus he doesn’t block shots or hit.. so..
First of all, Zucker scored 65pts a year ago with nothing close to Sid and Jake as linemates. Secondly, Phil's a friggin' disaster at ES--which, last I checked, is like 17 of his 20 minutes a game. He throws a tantrum if he doesn't play with Geno, and they make each other dramatically worse.
I'll take 65pt Zucker over 80pt Phil, 100 times out of 100. Phil is miserable at ES and makes Geno demonstratively worse. There's really no discussion here.And 2 seasons ago Phil had 92 points and we scoffed at the idea of trading him.
Do you follow the Wild at all? Like even a smidgen?
Go ask those who watch them if Rask will ever sniff anywhere near 20 points again, let alone 50. He's a borderline AHLer now, who is owed $4m a season. And he plays centre, a position we do not need at all. You will all hate him very damn quickly.
As for Zucker, he's a one dimensional winger. Even worse than Phil in that regard.
Terrible at backchecking like Phil, so no improvement there. He lacks ANY creative ability. You all hated James Neal, well, meet his lesser cousin.
The only thing Zucker has is speed. He misses most of his breakaway opportunities, and has a penchant for missing his chances. He also lacks the ability to create his own space.
I'm not totally against trading Phil, but this is not the way to go about it.
Edit: And before anyone calls him a former 30 goal scorer, Zucker had 7 damn empty netters in 17-18. Again, thanks to his speed, but he is not a "sniper" and he never has been.
I'll take 65pt Zucker over 80pt Phil, 100 times out of 100. Phil is miserable at ES and makes Geno demonstratively worse. There's really no discussion here.
Nobody's saying Rask is a good asset, but the fact remains that JJ is never rebounding--since his entire 13 year career has been atrocious. Odds aren't good that Rask rebounds, but there is a non-zero chance he does. That's more than JJ. Also, again, it's entirely possible to scratch or put Rask on the 4th line, playing him ~7 minutes a night. You can't insulate or hide a defenseman to that degree.
You're letting an emotional connection to Phil blind you. He's got to go, for his best interest as well as the team's. He played like he wanted out this season anyway. It's only a matter of time. If you think we're getting better than Zucker in terms of a 1-for-1, you're not really looking at things realistically.
I'd still prefer we went after Zucker in a separate trade and moved Phil for a mid-1st and a great prospect, like we've all been kicking around for a month, but if that's not a possibility, you go with Zucker (if Phil waives). In any event, I'm positive there are a handful of other deals on the table. It was even reported that there were talks with a handful of teams besides the Wild, and several of them were on Phil's accepted trade list.
We'll see. Nothing's going to happen until the draft, but to act like losing Phil and replacing him with Zucker is the apocalypse is shortsighted, at best. We make up a good portion of Phil's PP production when Jake moves to the top unit, and Zucker's immeasurably better at ES. I still play Zucker with Sid and Jake, so it doesn't solve Geno's problem, but it's one domino to fall out of many.
I mean, if I could get anything from Minny, it'd be Spurgeon and then we'd use Schultz to get Phil's replacement. But acting like Zucker is a dramatic, colossal failure as a return for Phil just isn't accurate. It's like when the entire Penguins fanbase stomped their feet and got pissed when we moved another significantly flawed, problematic, yet productive player in Neal for a better fit in Hornqvist.I don't have an emotional attachment to Phil, I just believe this is poor asset management.
Again, I think it's asking a lot from Zucker to repeat his 17-18 season. From what I have seen, and judging by his overall skillset, 50+ points is what I would expect from him.
I could be wrong, but acting like 65+ is a given is folly.
Also, Phil's 5 on 5 play has been horrid. I get that. But special teams points are still points. At the end of the day, goals on the board are all that really matters, and Phil still contributes that in spades.
With his sweetheart cap hit, he certainly should have more value than Zucker and Rask. Heck, if we were getting a top 4 D instead of Zucker I'd be more than fine with this.
Moving him for a lesser winger just screams "trade for the sake of trade".
What probably was the case was that someone caught wind of Kessel doing research on joining the Wild, and they started digging deeper and found that.
Eh, I suppose, but it still doesn't make as much sense to me as if JR's camp leaked it. If Phil's not happy with a potential Minnesota deal, he just blocks it. Again, everybody in the hockey world knows Phil's gone. I'm sure JR is fielding calls from a dozen teams right now that are, at the very least, kicking the tires--half of which are probably getting down to specifics when it comes to assets/players changing hands.
I wish we didn't have to wait another month for something to actually get done, though, and I'm still hoping we can manage to eek out a mid-1st in whatever deal we choose for Phil.