Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Y'all got any more of them Kessel rumors

[Empoleon8771]

I honestly don't see JJ for Rask as a material benefit. Like I said, I'd much rather just buy out JJ.

We don't need another center at this point unless it's a material upgrade, I'd rather give Teddy B a legit shot and we need to shed cap.

I'm just not a fan of the deal.

Literally the only non-benefit of that swap is that Rask is more expensive than Johnson. It's pretty much better in every other way, and it's better than getting 8 years of dead cap space by buying out Johnson.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I don't do stats... My eyes tells me that Phil is Special- Zucker is Decent

I don't trade SPECIAL for decent

I take Phil out of this and look at whats gonna help get Sid and Geno back on top of the mountain before they hang 'em up.
Speedy puck possessors that make everyone they play with better...? I'm in.

I'd love Zucker here but don't see it happenin'(eta: at this point in time).
On to the next offer(s).

 

[Shady Machine]

Literally the only non-benefit of that swap is that Rask is more expensive than Johnson. It's pretty much better in every other way, and it's better than getting 8 years of dead cap space by buying out Johnson.

Meh. The dead cap space is minimal even if for 8 years. Alternatively, you can eat a million and try to trade him for peanuts somewhere else.

I don't want Victor Rask. We have enough middle 6 forwards and bottom pair dmen that are overpaid and have term. Getting rid of one to replace with another is not something I want.

If JR has exhausted all other options to move JJ (he hasn't yet I'm sure) and ownership won't do a buy out, then I guess it's better than nothing, but I see no reason to be happy about this proposed deal.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I take Phil out of this and look at whats gonna help get Sid and Geno back on top of the mountain before they hang 'em up.
Speedy puck possessors that make everyone they play with better...? I'm in.

I'd love Zucker here but don't see it happenin'.
On to the next offer(s).

I agree. If you improve lines 1 and 2 through possible combinations of Horny, Rust and Maata, Phil slides comfortably back with Bjugs on line 3.

I saw that for 5 mins and I liked it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I agree. If you improve lines 1 and 2 through possible combinations of Horny, Rust and Maata, Phil slides comfortably back with Bjugs on line 3.

I saw that for 5 mins and I liked it.

Kessel doesn't want to play on the 3rd line, so I don't know why people keep saying this. He's going to piss and moan if you put him on the 3rd line, it's not an option.

Meh. The dead cap space is minimal even if for 8 years. Alternatively, you can eat a million and try to trade him for peanuts somewhere else.

I don't want Victor Rask. We have enough middle 6 forwards and bottom pair dmen that are overpaid and have term. Getting rid of one to replace with another is not something I want.

If JR has exhausted all other options to move JJ (he hasn't yet I'm sure) and ownership won't do a buy out, then I guess it's better than nothing, but I see no reason to be happy about this proposed deal.

The issue is just getting rid of Johnson without taking salary back is basically not going to happen. You're not going to be able to eat a million and send him somewhere else, because the problem with his contract is term and not the cap hit.

 

[JackFr]

The one positive of Rask is that a 4th line centre is less of a factor than a defenceman. We can hide Rask in a way that we couldn't hide Johnson.

Not that Rask might rebound, not that his contract is better than Johnson's. Getting Johnson away from where he could possibly be getting minutes is THE goal and benefit

 

[HandshakeLine]

Every time someone mentions Rask, I think of Tukka Rask and get really confused for a hot minute until I realize we're talking about Victor Rask of Minnesota and Not Doing Anything fame.

 

[Shady Machine]

The issue is just getting rid of Johnson without taking salary back is basically not going to happen. You're not going to be able to eat a million and send him somewhere else, because the problem with his contract is term and not the cap hit.

Possibly, but taking back Rask is not something I want. I don't know how else to say it. Call me unrealistic, but I'm not going to cheer about a deal that sees Kessel's value diminished because JR was a freaking moron last summer.

 

[Shady Machine]

The one positive of Rask is that a 4th line centre is less of a factor than a defenceman. We can hide Rask in a way that we couldn't hide Johnson.

Not that Rask might rebound, not that his contract is better than Johnson's. Getting Johnson away from where he could possibly be getting minutes is THE goal and benefit

And the counter to that is seeing Teddy B being benched and eventually traded only to watch him flourish somewhere else.

I know I'm being negative, but I could totally see that happening.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Possibly, but taking back Rask is not something I want. I don't know how else to say it. Call me unrealistic, but I'm not going to cheer about a deal that sees Kessel's value diminished because JR was a freaking moron last summer.

Kessel's value isn't being diminished in this trade. Rask for Johnson is a positive in value. Kessel just doesn't have much more value than someone like Zucker, that's just where he's at.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Just to clarify, I don't see any upside to trading for Victor Rask, especially when the problem we have is too many mediocre players on slightly inflated contracts. One or two of those players are fine, but we do not need an entire bottom 6/press box full of guys who are making 2 million more than they should.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Kessel doesn't want to play on the 3rd line, so I don't know why people keep saying this. He's going to piss and moan if you put him on the 3rd line, it's not an option.



The issue is just getting rid of Johnson without taking salary back is basically not going to happen. You're not going to be able to eat a million and send him somewhere else, because the problem with his contract is term and not the cap hit.

I don't buy that 3rd line bs. Get a different coach and he'll do what it takes to win.

 

[Peat]

And the counter to that is seeing Teddy B being benched and eventually traded only to watch him flourish somewhere else.

I know I'm being negative, but I could totally see that happening.

It could but my guess is that if this went through, Rask and Blueger would take up the bottom 6 C spots and Bjugstad would find himself a top 6 RW.

I'm not sure that's a particularly more palatable scenario.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I agree. If you improve lines 1 and 2 through possible combinations of Horny, Rust and Maata, Phil slides comfortably back with Bjugs on line 3.

I saw that for 5 mins and I liked it.

I know peeps wanna hang on to Phil for dear life but i can point you to sooo many GDT's the last 2 seasons where alot of people are completely done with the guy.
For me, Phil was fun for the perfect amount of time.
Time to move on.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Is it impossible that Rask just had a really rough year? Honest question. From afar, he looks like a decent player who had a bad year combined with getting injured? Or was he scratched because he was so bad? I just don't know how he's permanently terrible all of a sudden unless there was a serious injury. I dunno, give me the skinny on this player. He doesn't even thrill me in the best case, but did something happen in particular?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is it impossible that Rask just had a really rough year? Honest question. From afar, he looks like a decent player who had a bad year combined with getting injured? Or was he scratched because he was so bad? I just don't know how he's permanently terrible all of a sudden unless there was a serious injury. I dunno, give me the skinny on this player. He doesn't even thrill me in the best case, but did something happen in particular?

There was, that's the guess that most people had for why he was so bad last year:

Victor Rask Undergoes Surgery on Right Hand

His season last year was ruined due to that injury, but I logically think he should be better going forward. If I had to make a baseless guess, I'd say last year was an abbreviation and not his new normal.

 

[Beauner]

I know peeps wanna hang on to Phil for dear life but i can point you to sooo many GDT's the last 2 seasons where alot of people are completely done with the guy.
For me, Phil was fun for the perfect amount of time.
Time to move on.

I couldn't agree more. I see so many people so against trading him. I'm thinking to myself "Am I just subconciously convincing myself this is a good idea? Do I know deep down it's the wrong move but trying to justify it?"

Then I remember late in the season when I literally spent an entire game chronicling every single one of his shifts on my computer, then posted the results in the GDT. All because of how poorly he was playing.

The guy drove us nuts last year. He's not the same player he was 2 years ago.

 

[Pancakes]

I just hate this.

Everyone always talks about players coming to Pittsburgh and getting 15 more points than their career norms if they play on Crosby's wing, but when was the last time that actually happened?

Um, it happened with Kessel? He's been a PPG player twice since coming here. Prior to coming here, he was a PPG player only once over a much longer amount of seasons.

Also look at Sheary's best year versus what he has done in Buffalo so far. No comparison.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I know peeps wanna hang on to Phil for dear life but i can point you to sooo many GDT's the last 2 seasons where alot of people are completely done with the guy.
For me, Phil was fun for the perfect amount of time.
Time to move on.

I don't like him with Geno, never saw him with Sid, so that leaves the 3rd line. Ok with trading him, they better get a good return.

 

[USMC607]

Meh....

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Phil Kessel

The Good; Elite shot, great playmaking ability, good wheels that can push guys back on the rush and create space to use his shot/pass

The Bad; Temperamental, doesn't use his shot, wears out his welcome among those who have to coach/get the most out of him on a nightly basis, refuses to control his emotions and they end up dictating his play, miserable without the puck/defensively, 32 and the wheels are going to fall off sooner than later

Dude's gotta go. Thanks for all you did, Phil, but you were always a disposable asset. You served your purpose. Godspeed. Both parties, I think, would be best served to move on--and they will.

As much as I like Kessel for giving a major FU to Toronto and Simmons by winning the Cups, I think you're right here.

There's part of me that is coming around to believing that Kessel pouted by being on the 3rd line. Not saying that Sullivan should have put him with Geno (because Kessel struggled there too).

But I do think there's failure on Sullivan to not try more of Sid and Kessel to perhaps re-engage him. I realize Sid hates playing with him, but it could have been better for the team.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What this really comes down to with me is that I think this lineup is better than what the Penguins have now:

McCann-Crosby-Guentzel
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
Simon-Bjugstad-Hornqvist
Rask-Blueger-ZAR

Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Pettersson-Gudbranson

To me, that's a clear improvement and I'm not sure that you'd be able to improve the team like this without this trade. I don't know that you can move Johnson without taking a contract like Rask back, and I would rather have a bad 4th line forward than a bad defenseman that the Penguins are going to be playing 17+ minutes a night. I don't know if there are any realistic deals that improve the Penguins more than that swap would improve them. Sure, if you can pull off Granlund for Kessel and move Johnson for a less bad contract than Rask, you may improve more than you would in this trade, but I honestly doubt you'd be able to do that.

Give me a better realistic trade sequence than this and I'll listen to arguments against this deal. Otherwise, I'm just really going to hope that Kessel waives his NTC to go to Minnesota.

 

[Beauner]

What this really comes down to with me is that I think this lineup is better than what the Penguins have now:

McCann-Crosby-Guentzel
Zucker-Malkin-Rust
Simon-Bjugstad-Hornqvist
Rask-Blueger-ZAR

Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Pettersson-Gudbranson

To me, that's a clear improvement and I'm not sure that you'd be able to improve the team like this without this trade. I don't know that you can move Johnson without taking a contract like Rask back, and I would rather have a bad 4th line forward than a bad defenseman that the Penguins are going to be playing 17+ minutes a night. I don't know if there are any realistic deals that improve the Penguins more than that swap would improve them. Sure, if you can pull off Granlund for Kessel and move Johnson for a less bad contract than Rask, you may improve more than you would in this trade, but I honestly doubt you'd be able to do that.

Give me a better realistic trade sequence than this and I'll listen to arguments against this deal. Otherwise, I'm just really going to hope that Kessel waives his NTC to go to Minnesota.

I like that lineup, however it rests on a few assumptions/hopes (which I think are totally possible to occur).

1) Maatta rebounds and plays at least as well as he did in 16/17.
2) Hornqvist rebounds nicely.
3) McCann keeps up his play, and preferably improves
4) Rask isn't a tire fire
5) Zucker clicks in the top 6

If those things happen (which again, totally not unrealistic in my opinion), that's a great hockey team

 

[TimmyD]

I don't buy that 3rd line bs. Get a different coach and he'll do what it takes to win.

Then when he starts to pout because his new coach insists on balance and then his act wears thin on the new guy what happens? Are we just supposed to fire a coach every year and half just so we can keep accommodating Phil?

 

[Malkinstheman]

Coyotes unstable ownership is keeping them from making an offer. So IDK if thats something that can even be resolved in a month. Although the Coyotes did just get a minority owner on Wednesday, so maybe that helps?