Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Y'all got any more of them Kessel rumors

[Peat]

I'm sure he did. The question is whether Kessel believed it... and from what we've heard, apparently he wasn't convinced. Honestly I don't blame him. He has nothing but time on his side to see how things shake out. The more interesting thing will be how much his list changes in July (or whatever date he gets to set a new list). I think whatever that date will be will be JR's deadline to move him, as allowing Kessel to be a Penguin and be allowed to change his list can only make things harder for JR.

From the sounds of it Phil can't exactly change the list to be any harder.

Also, while Phil's got a lot of time here, he hasn't got unlimited time unless he's okay with coming back here and I'm dubious on that one.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm just pointing out that the league is changing, and that just because we won with speed and skill in 2015/16 doesn't mean that there isn't another way. If anything, 2018 should have shown us that we needed more than just "speed and skill" after Washington man handled us. That doesn't mean go full goons/grit/size, but that just having skilled player's isn't enough.

And the Penguins got worse for several reasons... one of which was because they acquired bad players in general (cough JJ cough), not because they "went away from their identity". Brassard was the epitome of that "identity" and we would have been MUCH better off without him.

Washington lost to a soft speed team this year. Pens lost to the Caps because:

1. Caps wanted it more
2. Pens were mentally and physically exhausted after back 2 back Cups
3. Caps finally got young depth scoring while Pens lost it from prior years.
4. Murray and defense were meh.
5. Random Letang gaffes
Way way way down the list was grit and toughness.


Pens Cup teams were not just pure skill and speed anyway.

Agree to disagree that JR is right. He only wanted pushback due protecting his stars and a weird obsession with Tom Wilson.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Hard to fault him on that one. I don't think anyone who looks at that roster see's a team that's really going to challenge for much. However I'm not sure that a true challenger is all that willing to take Kessel on. I know I wouldn't.

From the article. Not really a surprise after playing with Crosby, Malkin and Letang the past 4 seasons.

"Fenton tried to convince him otherwise, but sources say Kessel wondered who would get him the puck and wasn’t swayed by the touted young talent — presumably Fiala, Donato, Luke Kunin, Jordan Greenway, etc."

But it doesn't make sense to me that Phil wants to go to Arizona if hes concerned about playing for a contender.

Minn is closer to being a contender then Arizona is IMO.

 

[Empoleon8771]

But it doesn't make sense to me that Phil wants to go to Arizona if hes concerned about playing for a contender.

Minn is closer to being a contender then Arizona is IMO.

I think Kessel just wants to have his cake and eat it too.

 

[Gurglesons]

But it doesn't make sense to me that Phil wants to go to Arizona if hes concerned about playing for a contender.

Minn is closer to being a contender then Arizona is IMO.

I don’t agree with that at all. Arizona is in a much better position to be a contender.

 

[Jacob]

I don’t think Kessel cares about winning.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don’t think Kessel cares about winning.

Kinda my thought too. If he wants to play for a contender, well, we're one of the perennials. Or we would be if he wasn't playing like ass lately.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think it's fair to say that Kessel doesn't care about winning, but I think you can say that winning isn't Kessel's #1 priority. I think you could say that he cares more about the city he's going to or what kind of point production potential Kessel would have at that team. In Arizona's case, he cares more about working with a coach he likes.

 

[Jacob]

I don't think it's fair to say that Kessel doesn't care about winning, but I think you can say that winning isn't Kessel's #1 priority. I think you could say that he cares more about the city he's going to or what kind of point production potential Kessel would have at that team. In Arizona's case, he cares more about working with a coach he likes.

And under a small spotlight in a warm climate.

 

[Empoleon8771]

And under a small spotlight in a warm climate.

I think that falls under the city category tbh.

 

[Pancakes]

I'm going to defend Kessel for a minute here. Regardless of whether winning is a priority, what place you live in matters a lot for your own happiness and well-being. Living in a place where you're unhappy is not going to be enjoyable even if you have millions of dollars. If he doesn't like Minnesota because of the area or the weather or whatever, good for him and I respect him for not wanting to let himself get shipped off there.

Also this summer feels like it is really dragging. I want it to be the draft and for this Kessel deal to be done already. Getting anxious wondering where JR heads with this team.

 

[Beauner]

Kessel seems kinda like AB without the massive ego and psychotic tendencies.

He wants to win, he just wants to do it his way

 

[Peat]

I'm going to defend Kessel for a minute here. Regardless of whether winning is a priority, what place you live in matters a lot for your own happiness and well-being. Living in a place where you're unhappy is not going to be enjoyable even if you have millions of dollars. If he doesn't like Minnesota because of the area or the weather or whatever, good for him and I respect him for not wanting to let himself get shipped off there.

Also this summer feels like it is really dragging. I want it to be the draft and for this Kessel deal to be done already. Getting anxious wondering where JR heads with this team.

This is all fair but given Kessel chosen to go to school there, I doubt he hates it. Unless I've missed something?

 

[Pancakes]

This is all fair but given Kessel chosen to go to school there, I doubt he hates it. Unless I've missed something?

Yeah it sounds like it's more that he thinks Minnesota can't win is the issue. I'm just saying, if he dislikes an area for reasons other than winning, I'm actually OK with that.

Obviously as a fan I hope he accepts a deal that is good for us though.

 

[pensfan71]

This is all fair but given Kessel chosen to go to school there, I doubt he hates it. Unless I've missed something?

Not necessarily, you can go to school to a city you initially loved and then grow to dislike it

 

[Empoleon8771]

This is all fair but given Kessel chosen to go to school there, I doubt he hates it. Unless I've missed something?

He was also only there for 1 year and it's not like there's a ton of top colleges for hockey outside of the midwest and northeast.

 

[billybudd]

I'm going to defend Kessel for a minute here. Regardless of whether winning is a priority, what place you live in matters a lot for your own happiness and well-being. Living in a place where you're unhappy is not going to be enjoyable even if you have millions of dollars. If he doesn't like Minnesota because of the area or the weather or whatever, good for him and I respect him for not wanting to let himself get shipped off there.

Yep. I don't begrudge Kessel for leveraging his NT clause to try to live and work somewhere he wants to. Why shouldn't he? His agent negotiated this, may as well use it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yep. I don't begrudge Kessel for leveraging his NT clause to try to live and work somewhere he wants to. Why shouldn't he? His agent negotiated this, may as well use it.

Not only that, but the Penguins got Kessel for as cheap as they did because of his NTC in 2015. Why should I be pissed at him now for doing the same thing he did in 2015, which gave them Kessel for cheap and resulted in 2 cup wins?

It's why I kinda laugh when people make a big deal out of a Kessel deal and insist the Penguins need to get good value for him. They already got good value for him: 2 cups in 4 years. They got him for 50 cents on the dollar and won 2 cups with him, so why is it a problem if they only get 25 cents on the dollar when they trade him now?

 

[Turin]

I wonder how many "contenders" have a spot for Phil on their team to start with, all things considered. And how many of those teams can give a good return?

Basically, if one of y'all could check this and get back to me

0. If Phil wanted to stay on a contender so bad he should have maybe taken a hit this year or something.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not only that, but the Penguins got Kessel for as cheap as they did because of his NTC in 2015. Why should I be pissed at him now for doing the same thing he did in 2015, which gave them Kessel for cheap and resulted in 2 cup wins?

It's why I kinda laugh when people make a big deal out of a Kessel deal and insist the Penguins need to get good value for him. They already got good value for him: 2 cups in 4 years. They got him for 50 cents on the dollar and won 2 cups with him, so why is it a problem if they only get 25 cents on the dollar when they trade him now?

My question is why did we honor the NTC. We didn’t have to correct?

 

[Empoleon8771]

My question is why did we honor the NTC. We didn’t have to correct?

No they had to. The only time you can not honor a NTC if you acquire a player before their NTC kicks in, like when Carter was traded to Columbus right before his NTC set in.

 

[Ryder71]

I do think acquiring players who possess both speed and good offensive acumen is the way to go. Speed should be heavily weighted when considering what assets or players to go after. It doesn't necessarily guarantee success, but having that dimension to ones game IMO anyhow is a huge selling point. Zucker would be a nice get under the circumstances.

Which is why when people talk about possibly trading Rust I cringe. He's has his flaws as many players do, but his speed is something that enhances our forecheck and we need more such players.

 

[Peat]

Not necessarily, you can go to school to a city you initially loved and then grow to dislike it

He was also only there for 1 year and it's not like there's a ton of top colleges for hockey outside of the midwest and northeast.

Okay, true, but we're talking a place he's had on his permitted list pretty recently too.

 

[The Old Master]

0. If Phil wanted to stay on a contender so bad he should have maybe taken a hit this year or something.

I don't think Phil knows what he wants. but right now he just wants more options. imo

 

[Jagged Ice]

Phil's name is already on the cup. Not just once. Did he decline Minny because they aren't a contender? Probably wants to finish things living in Scottsdale and playing for Tocchet.