Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Y'all got any more of them Kessel rumors

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Hornqvist was on-ice for 77 goals this year, and 30-40 were because of his screens? That's completely ridiculous, and proof people are too attached to the guy.

It was a very rough estimate based on the fact that he seems to be providing a screen on a goal every 2-3 games. If you have any actual information on screens, I'm sure the board would appreciate it.

I'd argue that what's ridiculous is that you would seize on a guesstimate of a stat that isn't recorded to discredit everyone who thinks Hornqvist is being under appreciated on here. Horny makes his living in front of the net, is it really ridiculous to suggest that a third of the goals scored when he's on the ice happened with him in front of the net?

 

[Jacob]

It is true that there seems to be at *least* a handful of goals every year that wouldn't happen without Hornqvist but he doesn't even get a goal - or even an assist - on them. Certainly not 30 but even if it's 5, and I think that's conservative, that's a lot.

 

[Tom Hanks]

It is true that there seems to be at *least* a handful of goals every year that wouldn't happen without Hornqvist but he doesn't even get a goal - or even an assist - on them. Certainly not 30 but even if it's 5, and I think that's conservative, that's a lot.

I found a site that I can no longer remember or maybe it doesn’t exist but it actually broke down player goals within a certain range of the net and Hornqvist was number 1 in the league. Perry and Simmonds were 2 & 3.

He definitely impacts goals without getting a point on it as well. It’s usually mentioned in the GDT’s when it happens.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If I was the coach I'd be pissed at him too. He's the worst forward in the league defensively.

I don't know why you think everyone thinks that him and Sullivan are good friends. Yeah, Sullivan is probably fed up with him.

Show me proof he's the worst defensively.

And did you f***ing think he was great at it before we got the guy? Don't be daft.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Okay, I think that's good evidence that Kessel did the same thing with his NTC this year as he did in 2015. That's a shame.

It seems like Kessel constructed his NTC to give himself a full NTC, and is willing to waive for Arizona. Sorry @KIRK I should not have been a dick

I mean, if a team was dumb enough to give him that stipulation and also one dumb enough to trade for him should expect that.

Also JR messing up with the relationship with Geno? What? Did JR keep playing him with the wrong people?

Also with Kessel, all he was tried with was with Geno who wasn't having a good year and with Bjugstad and Brassard. The few sips of coffee with Sid is where he looked the most like his old self and some how a bunch of f***ing idiots here want to completely rake the guy over the coals.

Wow. What a shit fanbase this has become.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He's probably looking at his "next' contract. "Upper echelon" players look towards their next contract.

I'm not saying that Phil Kessel is good for the Penguins. I'm saying that GMJR went about his Kessel blame in the wrong way. He didn't play his cards right. And THAT will cost the org in the end.

Phil's issues with the team started with the coaching staff last year and then this year plus the Gm. The Gm is backing the wrong horse, losing talent.

Fun.

 

[Riptide]

I also read that if any big deal goes down the NHL won’t want it to happen til after the finals, so

Correct. The NHL would prefer that GMs not do big trades during the SCFs so that the fans focus can be on the game and not on off ice actions... but they don't specifically prohibit it. I think this is like the Schneider-NJ trade back when the draft was in NJ. NJ asked Vancouver to hold off on announcing the trade until the draft the next day so that there was some excitement for their fans. But even then, that's a request, not a requirement.

 

[Riptide]

With it becoming more likely that Karlsson will be going to Tampa, I think that JT Miller could be had for our 1st so Tampa can clear the necessary cap. Kessel to AZ should net us a 1st so we could still replenish the pipeline in the process. While Miller isn't as prolific as Kessel, he could serve as a Swiss army knife player that fits anywhere in the top 9.

I think EK would like to go there (no real surprise)... but even if he takes some big discount, TB is going to be hard pressed to free up the 8m/10m in cap space it's going to take to sign him. Especially when they already need to free up cap space to sign B.Point and fill out their roster while also being conscious about their RFAs for 20/21 in Vasy, Sergachev and Cerilli.

 

[Riptide]

He's probably looking at his "next' contract. "Upper echelon" players look towards their next contract.

I'm not saying that Phil Kessel is good for the Penguins. I'm saying that GMJR went about his Kessel blame in the wrong way. He didn't play his cards right. And THAT will cost the org in the end.

Unless you have some sort of inside knowledge that hasn't been reported or that has been reported and you know for a fact is 100% wrong... you have no way to judge this. You may not like what's been reported, but you're making an assessment with only a little bit of the information.

 

[Riptide]

Show me proof he's the worst defensively.

And did you ****ing think he was great at it before we got the guy? Don't be daft.

No, but he was a hell of a lot better then (15/16, 16/17) he was this season - and again, that's on him, not his linemates.

I mean, if a team was dumb enough to give him that stipulation and also one dumb enough to trade for him should expect that.

Also JR messing up with the relationship with Geno? What? Did JR keep playing him with the wrong people?

Also with Kessel, all he was tried with was with Geno who wasn't having a good year and with Bjugstad and Brassard. The few sips of coffee with Sid is where he looked the most like his old self and some how a bunch of ****ing idiots here want to completely rake the guy over the coals.

Wow. What a **** fanbase this has become.

Again, it doesn't matter who your linemates are. I'm not pissed that he was constantly scored upon when he was on the ice, I'm pissed that he consistently put little effort into HIS defensive game, put little effort into not making lazy ass passes at his own blueline, and that he decided to shoot significantly less than his average over the previous few seasons. Those are all things he could control regardless of who he was playing with. He CHOOSE not to. Sorry I'm not willing to cater to a guy who decides to not give a shit about the team.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No, but he was a hell of a lot better then (15/16, 16/17) he was this season - and again, that's on him, not his linemates.

Yeah but his line mates were also not playing very well either.

Ignoring that is also wrong.

It's also not Phil's fault Sid and Jake suddenly couldn't produce shit in the playoffs.

 

[Riptide]

Yeah but his line mates were also not playing very well either.

Ignoring that is also wrong.

As has been said many many times. Having JJ/Malkin on the ice doesn't affect how you backcheck or when you make lazy ass passes at your own blueline. Nor does it prevent you from taking the shot. Kessel's game changed drastically (and not in a good way). Some of that was beyond his control - and for that I'm more than okay to give him a pass. But a hell of a lot of it was entirely within his control, and he choose to essentially not give a f***.

It's also not Phil's fault Sid and Jake suddenly couldn't produce **** in the playoffs.

Wasn't the story last playoffs that we "needed our depth to step up when our stars were not scoring"?? I mean that was the excuse used for Malkin and Kessel then. So the excuse now is that it's not Kessel's fault that he had the same ES production as Crosby and Guentzel? Isn't he supposed to be the depth that steps up? I mean thats why we're paying him 6.8m a season.

We need to stop making excuses for a guy that doesn't give a f***. Trade his ass and we'll all be much better off.

 

[Turin]

Phil's issues with the team started with the coaching staff last year and then this year plus the Gm. The Gm is backing the wrong horse, losing talent.

Fun.

When the coaching staff asked that he not be a total liability if he insisted on playing through his injury and proceeded to be horrible in the playoffs? Yea f*** the coaches for holding Phil to a certain standard.

 

[pokey10]

When the coaching staff asked that he not be a total liability if he insisted on playing through his injury and proceeded to be horrible in the playoffs? Yea **** the coaches for holding Phil to a certain standard.

I feel like this was a Letang situation at one point, a couple years back, however he ended up coming out of his funk.

 

[Peat]

I thought I posted this, I forgot I guess. JR is totally going to add to Kessel to get Galchenyuk if Chayka plays hard to get, you know. That's totally a JR type of move. People shouldn't be concerned that Kessel will bring back a bad return, people should be concerned that JR is going to hilariously overpay for a guy he wants in the Kessel deal.

But like I said, I really hope they get a 3-way deal going here. I really want Zucker and I think Arizona has a few big pieces that Minnesota would want for Zucker (Dvorak, Garland and Hinostroza being the big ones).

That would be a very stupid thing to do for a forward with two bad seasons and no term left. I know Rutherford overpays but that seems a bridge too far to me unless things really go south moving Kessel... and frankly at that point I'd like to know what garbage the 8 teams on his list are offering.

Rossi tried to say that was possible. We know it’s not possible, but maybe JR is trying to make it seem like it is. There will be posturing both ways until JR gets what he thinks is reasonable.

Didn't MacKenzie say more or less "Phil is definitely gone, unless Rutherford can't get the right return that is, but he is definitely gone?" Similar sort of fig leaf.



p.s. re Hornqvist - he's missed almost exactly the same number of games every year for the last three years; I don't think that's really his injury problems getting worse and worse. This is the first time they've effected his production - well, potentially effected, as there's a fair few potential reasons why it might have happened. And he's recovered to score plenty for Sweden at worlds.

I won't say I'm not concerned, because I'm concerned about all our ageing long term cap investments, but people are blowing up what happened this season far far too much.

 

[ncm7772]

No doubt this has been mentioned before, but I tend to not be a maniac in the off-season, so I don’t come around much.

GMJR is gonna go full mental this summer after seeing two bigger, physical teams in the SCF. Should be interesting and I can’t wait to see the meltdowns.

 

[WayneSid9987]

No doubt this has been mentioned before, but I tend to not be a maniac in the off-season, so I don’t come around much.

GMJR is gonna go full mental this summer after seeing two bigger, physical teams in the SCF. Should be interesting and I can’t wait to see the meltdowns.

Dunno...
Everything thats come out so far points to a potential "getting back on the right track" if you will...
Zucker as a target...
Potentially getting JJ outta here quickly...

Theres some hope that JR, when he said, "i'm gonna do a deep dive here and see whats wrong/needs turned around" gained a new purpose/direction.
Perhaps leaning on a guy on the payroll like Sam Ventura a tad, or a ton more even.

I think JR can sorta shift with the winds with his philosophies. We all know in '15/16 it was "need to get faster" then from summer '17 to the end of this last season it was "protect the stars"
and "push back".

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he has a new philosophy after this "deep dive" he voiced he was doing.
Guess we'll just have to wait and see...

 

[Peat]

Yeah. Famous last words, but so far it looks like Rutherford's not got size/grit/pushback/physicality etc.etc. high on the priority list so far. Speed, youth, better locker room. Maybe he thinks Gudbranson and ZAR give enough size; maybe he thinks with people going back to size its time to go back to speed. Maybe he's lying to us. But so far... so good.

 

[The Old Master]

Yeah. Famous last words, but so far it looks like Rutherford's not got size/grit/pushback/physicality etc.etc. high on the priority list so far. Speed, youth, better locker room. Maybe he thinks Gudbranson and ZAR give enough size; maybe he thinks with people going back to size its time to go back to speed. Maybe he's lying to us. But so far... so good.

or he can't remember what yr it is or what he said last week. so who knows what he'll be thinking when the time comes.

 

[Tom Hanks]

or he can't remember what yr it is or what he said last week. so who knows what he'll be thinking when the time comes.

As long as he doesn’t just make a bad trade or bad FA signing just to get someone. If the right person isn’t there just don’t do anything wait for another day (Phil aside because he needs to be traded).

 

[Hottubber]

Correct. The NHL would prefer that GMs not do big trades during the SCFs so that the fans focus can be on the game and not on off ice actions... but they don't specifically prohibit it. I think this is like the Schneider-NJ trade back when the draft was in NJ. NJ asked Vancouver to hold off on announcing the trade until the draft the next day so that there was some excitement for their fans. But even then, that's a request, not a requirement.

Lou actually went so far as to say that if the trade got leaked before he would pull out

 

[ownal]

McCann - Crosby - Guentzel
Zucker - Malkin - x
Lehkonen - Lee - Hornqvist
Simon - TB - Rust
Zar



Bjugstad should be traded for a ELC defenseman and use the cap space to sign Anders Lee.
Maatta should be traded for Lehkonen
JJ bought out.
If the cap is 83 million, we will have 4 million left to sign a top 6 RW.

Connolly at 4 million wouldn't be bad.

 

[ownal]

McCann - Crosby - Guentzel
Zucker - Malkin - x
Lehkonen - Lee - Hornqvist
Simon - TB - Rust
Zar



Bjugstad should be traded for a ELC defenseman and use the cap space to sign Anders Lee.
Maatta should be traded for Lehkonen
JJ bought out.
If the cap is 83 million, we will have 4 million left to sign a top 6 RW.

 

[ownal]

I wonder what it would take to trade for jon merrill. He would make a great pairing with Schultz.

 

[Riptide]

No doubt this has been mentioned before, but I tend to not be a maniac in the off-season, so I don’t come around much.

GMJR is gonna go full mental this summer after seeing two bigger, physical teams in the SCF. Should be interesting and I can’t wait to see the meltdowns.

3 of the 4 teams that made the conference finals were bigger physical teams. Same went for 17/18. So perhaps Rutherford has a legitimate reason to want to see some change in his team.