Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Y'all got any more of them Kessel rumors

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Gurglesons

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Phil's issues with the team started with the coaching staff last year and then this year plus the Gm. The Gm is backing the wrong horse, losing talent.

Fun.

So, Phil has issues with the coaching staff after they put him in a role that got him two cups and then a career year in points.

Good riddance then. If Kessel thinks he is more important than team success while also having tremendous personal success. He can f*** off. We got what we needed from him and can easily get a more complete player that doesn’t have the issues he does.
 

Gurglesons

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Building on the above point here is an excerpt from Behind the Benches:

Early on in their tenure, Sullivan and his staff settled on the idea of trying Kessel on a line with Bonino. They thought it would give the Penguins a balance on all three lines, featuring Crosby one, Malkin on another and Kessel on the third. They didn’t see much downside, since the Penguins weren’t exactly tearing it up when Sullivan took over.

So Sullivan invited Kessel into his office and shared the idea. They talked about creating balance in an attempt to get Kessel on the ice against the opposing team’s third D pair. At the time, Kessel was playing with Malkin but that line wasn’t generating as much offense as Sullivan thought it could.

“Phil at the time didn’t have a lot of interest.” Sullivan says. “He understood our logic. I’m not sure he agreed with it. To his credit he said “Whatever you want.” But, I do think that for players to be at their best, they have to believe. At the time he was a good soldier. He did it, but I don’t think he really believed.”

Obviously Sullivan is replaceable, but Kessel definitely strikes me as someone that thinks he is always right.
 
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mpp9

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In his defense, pretty sure 87 and 71 and most stars are the same way. They do the same dumb shit on the PP year in year out. Sid's a creature of habit and will do the same things over and over no matter what anyone else tells him. And Malkin is a measured gambler with the puck. If he thinks he can pull something off, he'll do it no matter what the coach tells him.

As for Phil, no elite level scoring winger is gonna be okay with playing on a third line longterm. Not a single one. The problem is that he's just not a style of player that makes playing him on a line with 87 and 71 a whole that's greater than the sum of the parts. Arguably, it doesnt' even produce enough offense to warrant sticking with it for more than a couple months out of the season.
 

cheesedanish87

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Russo: Wild's summer off to rocky start after Phil Kessel...


According to several people close to Kessel, the veteran goal scorer has a couple of concerns about playing for the Wild, but the biggest by far is the fact he has examined the Wild’s recently blown-up roster and simply doesn’t think the team is close to contending for a Stanley Cup. Not even a recent telephone conversation with Fenton was able to change his mind, sources say.
 

Empoleon8771

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On one hand, I don't blame Kessel for looking at the Wild roster with skepticism. But on the other hand, they had 101 points last year. They still have Suter, Dumba, Spurgeon and Brodin on defense and Dubnyk in net. Their forward group really needs help, but Kessel would be a big boost and they have a lot of cap space to address their forward group in free agency.

I think it's at least a silver lining that Russo doesn't appear to be slamming the door shut entirely on Kessel to Minnesota, he's just saying that Kessel is saying no to the deal as of right now. If Kessel doesn't get traded before July 1st and Minnesota makes a big move in free agency, I think Kessel may change his mind on Minnesota. The issue is that I don't think Zucker will stay available until that point.
 

Riptide

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Russo: Wild's summer off to rocky start after Phil Kessel...


According to several people close to Kessel, the veteran goal scorer has a couple of concerns about playing for the Wild, but the biggest by far is the fact he has examined the Wild’s recently blown-up roster and simply doesn’t think the team is close to contending for a Stanley Cup. Not even a recent telephone conversation with Fenton was able to change his mind, sources say.

Hard to fault him on that one. I don't think anyone who looks at that roster see's a team that's really going to challenge for much. However I'm not sure that a true challenger is all that willing to take Kessel on. I know I wouldn't.

From the article. Not really a surprise after playing with Crosby, Malkin and Letang the past 4 seasons.

"Fenton tried to convince him otherwise, but sources say Kessel wondered who would get him the puck and wasn’t swayed by the touted young talent — presumably Fiala, Donato, Luke Kunin, Jordan Greenway, etc."
 

Empoleon8771

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I should also note that Russo says that the Penguins are still interested in Zucker, or at least that's how I'm reading what Russo is saying here:

Besides Pittsburgh, sources say at least some of the teams interested in Zucker include the Vancouver Canucks, Arizona Coyotes, Anaheim Ducks, and, one again, the Flames

Even if it doesn't involve Kessel to Minnesota, I wonder if the Penguins try to get something done with Minnesota for Zucker. Based on the 2 rumored deals involving Zucker (Frolik and a high pick and Kessel), it seems like Minnesota wants a RWer for Zucker. The Penguins have a few guys that may fit outside of Kessel in Bjugstad, Rust and Hornqvist.
 

iFishyHD

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Hard to fault him on that one. I don't think anyone who looks at that roster see's a team that's really going to challenge for much. However I'm not sure that a true challenger is all that willing to take Kessel on. I know I wouldn't.
Why not? Worked out for the Penguins pretty well, even if we're trading him now. Whoever gets him next can just let him walk and still have him for less time than we did. I do think there are specific places that would end up better for Phil. I think Vegas would honestly be great for him. He can play 2RW and let the Stone line take the heavy matchups, and Phil can just produce as much as he can with Stastny/Karlsson on line 2.
 

Empoleon8771

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Hard to fault him on that one. I don't think anyone who looks at that roster see's a team that's really going to challenge for much. However I'm not sure that a true challenger is all that willing to take Kessel on. I know I wouldn't.

From the article. Not really a surprise after playing with Crosby, Malkin and Letang the past 4 seasons.

"Fenton tried to convince him otherwise, but sources say Kessel wondered who would get him the puck and wasn’t swayed by the touted young talent — presumably Fiala, Donato, Luke Kunin, Jordan Greenway, etc."

Why wouldn't Fenton mention Parise and Staal? That's what I imagine their top line would be, Parise-Staal-Kessel. Mentioning those 2, especially after the season Parise had last year (pace of 31 goals and 68 points), makes a lot more sense than saying "you'll be playing with Kevin Fiala".
 

Peat

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I should also note that Russo says that the Penguins are still interested in Zucker, or at least that's how I'm reading what Russo is saying here:



Even if it doesn't involve Kessel to Minnesota, I wonder if the Penguins try to get something done with Minnesota for Zucker. Based on the 2 rumored deals involving Zucker (Frolik and a high pick and Kessel), it seems like Minnesota wants a RWer for Zucker. The Penguins have a few guys that may fit outside of Kessel in Bjugstad, Rust and Hornqvist.

Jesse said it was Kessel or bust for Minnesota though. Maybe they change their minds or we get a 3 way going, but that didn't sound hopeful to me.
 

Empoleon8771

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Jesse said it was Kessel or bust for Minnesota though. Maybe they change their minds or we get a 3 way going, but that didn't sound hopeful to me.

I thought that was just as a part of the Johnson for Rask deal. I thought he said that the swap would only be a part of the Kessel for Zucker deal, not that nothing else could be worked out for Zucker.
 

Coach Travis

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Russo: Wild's summer off to rocky start after Phil Kessel...


According to several people close to Kessel, the veteran goal scorer has a couple of concerns about playing for the Wild, but the biggest by far is the fact he has examined the Wild’s recently blown-up roster and simply doesn’t think the team is close to contending for a Stanley Cup. Not even a recent telephone conversation with Fenton was able to change his mind, sources say.
I can't blame him. Imagine being Phil Kessel, playing the majority of your 5v5 TOI with Jack Johnson, knowing what that's like, and then finding out the GM who wants you also wants to bring in JJ. And he's trying to dump the player he just traded for Nino Niederreiter for. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
 

Empoleon8771

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I can't blame him. Imagine being Phil Kessel, playing the majority of your 5v5 TOI with Jack Johnson, knowing what that's like, and then finding out the GM who wants you also wants to bring in JJ. And he's trying to dump the player he just traded for Nino Niederreiter for. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Kessel would be playing in front of Suter and Dumba most likely. The problem here is Minnesota's forward group is bad.
 

Peat

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I thought that was just as a part of the Johnson for Rask deal. I thought he said that the swap would only be a part of the Kessel for Zucker deal, not that nothing else could be worked out for Zucker.

Maybe I'm misread it then. Too lazy to look it up.
 

Riptide

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Why not? Worked out for the Penguins pretty well, even if we're trading him now. Whoever gets him next can just let him walk and still have him for less time than we did. I do think there are specific places that would end up better for Phil. I think Vegas would honestly be great for him. He can play 2RW and let the Stone line take the heavy matchups, and Phil can just produce as much as he can with Stastny/Karlsson on line 2.

I should correct that to: I don't think a true challenger will take him on at a price we'd accept - if they'd take him at all.

Biggest issue is his almost complete disregard for a defensive game. And no, pointing to him never being great there is meaningless. He wasn't great defensively in 15/16, 16/17, but he wasn't atrocious. The last two seasons he's been somewhere between bad and absolutely God f***ing awful. Why is that someone that a contending team would want?

Honestly the only thing that I could see a team going after is his PP production. Nashville for example could really use some help there. They might be willing to suck up his defensive issues for help on the PP, hoping that they could insulate the rest of his flaws. But even then I'm not sure. Because if you look at their PP over the past few seasons, while it's never been elite, it's usually been acceptable at least and they haven't really lost any key players from it... which points to it being a systems issue and not a personal one.
 
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Riptide

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Why wouldn't Fenton mention Parise and Staal? That's what I imagine their top line would be, Parise-Staal-Kessel. Mentioning those 2, especially after the season Parise had last year (pace of 31 goals and 68 points), makes a lot more sense than saying "you'll be playing with Kevin Fiala".

I'm sure he did. The question is whether Kessel believed it... and from what we've heard, apparently he wasn't convinced. Honestly I don't blame him. He has nothing but time on his side to see how things shake out. The more interesting thing will be how much his list changes in July (or whatever date he gets to set a new list). I think whatever that date will be will be JR's deadline to move him, as allowing Kessel to be a Penguin and be allowed to change his list can only make things harder for JR.
 

Lust for Life

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I wonder how many "contenders" have a spot for Phil on their team to start with, all things considered. And how many of those teams can give a good return?

Basically, if one of y'all could check this and get back to me :laugh:
 
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T1K

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I think EK would like to go there (no real surprise)... but even if he takes some big discount, TB is going to be hard pressed to free up the 8m/10m in cap space it's going to take to sign him. Especially when they already need to free up cap space to sign B.Point and fill out their roster while also being conscious about their RFAs for 20/21 in Vasy, Sergachev and Cerilli.

Yeah they’ll need to move bodies to make it work, but if EK is willing to sacrifice AAV to get it done I think they’ll the necessary moves.
 

Empoleon8771

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I'm sure he did. The question is whether Kessel believed it... and from what we've heard, apparently he wasn't convinced. Honestly I don't blame him. He has nothing but time on his side to see how things shake out. The more interesting thing will be how much his list changes in July (or whatever date he gets to set a new list). I think whatever that date will be will be JR's deadline to move him, as allowing Kessel to be a Penguin and be allowed to change his list can only make things harder for JR.

I've had the idea from the beginning he only said no to the trade because he wanted to try to get a more desirable location than Minny, but if it came down to it, he'd pick Minnesota over staying in Pittsburgh. The issue is I don't think Minnesota is going to wait that long with Zucker. Zucker is almost definitely being traded by the draft, so if Kessel for Zucker is going to happen, it's going to have to be before then.
 

Riptide

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Nah. Pens got worse when they went away from their identity.

I'm just pointing out that the league is changing, and that just because we won with speed and skill in 2015/16 doesn't mean that there isn't another way. If anything, 2018 should have shown us that we needed more than just "speed and skill" after Washington man handled us. That doesn't mean go full goons/grit/size, but that just having skilled player's isn't enough.

And the Penguins got worse for several reasons... one of which was because they acquired bad players in general (cough JJ cough), not because they "went away from their identity". Brassard was the epitome of that "identity" and we would have been MUCH better off without him.
 
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