Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Well, now what?

[Empoleon8771]

Why? Most of us wanted to see Rust on LW.

I really don't think Rust is a good LWer, I really don't want to see him on LW. His biggest attributes relate to his defensive game and he's much less effective defensively on his off-wing.

I actually don't mind those lines, though I'd swap Hornqvist and Simon for now since Horny seems to be clicking with Cullen and Sheahan.

Bottom six of:
Simon-Brassard-Rust
Sheahan-Cullen-Hornqvist

Hornqvist's minutes would be bumped by him playing top PP unit, Rust's minutes would be bumped by him playing PK, and Brassard's minutes would be bumped by him getting PK and 2nd PP unit minutes.

But again, do you actually see Sullivan doing that? My problem isn't with those lines (although I think you need better than Simon on the 3rd line), I just don't think there's any way that Sullivan would actually do that for any extended period of time. I think he'd sooner play Rust on LW than play Simon in the top-9 over either Rust or Hornqvist.

But at the same point, I also think Sullivan would try Andrighetto on Crosby's wing, so that applies to the guy I want to target too.

 

[Riptide]

But at the same point, I also think Sullivan would try Andrighetto on Crosby's wing, so that applies to the guy I want to target too.

That pretty much is going to apply to any winger we pick up who's not some well established and productive LW - and even then they won't be safe from "trying something out".

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

But again, do you actually see Sullivan doing that? My problem isn't with those lines (although I think you need better than Simon on the 3rd line), I just don't think there's any way that Sullivan would actually do that for any extended period of time. I think he'd sooner play Rust on LW than play Simon in the top-9 over either Rust or Hornqvist.

But at the same point, I also think Sullivan would try Andrighetto on Crosby's wing, so that applies to the guy I want to target too.

He's doing that now anyways, except instead of rolling Simon/Brassard/Sprong, he ends up benching the two wingers after the first period and rotating Brassard onto Crosby's line.

Right now, Sully's lines are basically:
Jake/Sid/Rust (Brassard)
Hags/Geno/Kessel
Cullen/Sheahan/Hornqvist
bench warmer/Brassard/bench warmer

Bringing in Dzingel would just mean that "4th line" would actually continue to be rolled out there, rather than 2/3 of it being benched while Brassard gets shuffled onto Sid's wing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He's doing that now anyways, except instead of rolling Simon/Brassard/Sprong, he ends up benching the two wingers after the first period and rotating Brassard onto Crosby's line.

Right now, Sully's lines are basically:
Jake/Sid/Rust (Brassard)
Hags/Geno/Kessel
Cullen/Sheahan/Hornqvist
bench warmer/Brassard/bench warmer

Bringing in Dzingel would just mean that "4th line" would actually continue to be rolled out there, rather than 2/3 of it being benched while Brassard gets shuffled onto Sid's wing.

I'd rather them just get static lines and not continuously rotate the lines

I'd also rather keep Cullen's minutes down, I haven't been very happy with how Sullivan has used Cullen in a couple of games this year. But that's just more of a comment of I don't like how they're running the lines right now and I'd rather not give Sullivan the idea that he should continue to run the lines like this. I want Brassard solely to be playing center and the team to be rolling all 4 of its lines, instead of jumbling the lines to oblivion the second the game gets close.

 

[Shady Machine]

JJ is a high impact hockey player. He's on the ice for a lot of goals for and against. I suppose that's better than sucking out loud and bleeding goals against while not being able to contribute offensively.

But JJ cannot be classified as having been good. Just have to hope his defensive lapses can be reigned in and in the important spring games his offense hits another level like it has in the past.

As for Sprong. Sullivan wants him to play a low risk game and getting shots on net. He's not good enough to warrant preferential treatment over proven top 9 NHL players. And he has yet to show his shot is dangerous this season. So why screw Rust over by moving him to LW?

JJ has been on the ice for 6GF and 10GA at ES. GF he is 3rd on Pens dmen (2 behind Letang and Dumo) but GA he's the worst by 3. That's brutal.

 

[Shady Machine]

Does anyone want to start placing bets on what veteran 3rd line LWer Sprong gets traded for? I'll place my bet on Sprong going to Edmonton for a rental Reider or to Ottawa for Boedker, although I think Boedker may even be asking for too much.

As a more serious comment, I think Boedker may not be a bad target for the 3rd line LW spot if that spot continues to present problems. With his salary retention, Boedker at $3 million really isn't that bad. The sad thing is that I could totally see Sprong+ for Boedker being a move that this team makes, just like the Despres for Lovejoy trade.

Why would we want Boedker? There goes any chance of re-signing Hagelin. We shouldn't be trading for overpriced depth.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why would we want Boedker? There goes any chance of re-signing Hagelin. We shouldn't be trading for overpriced depth.

They probably won't and should re-sign Hagelin anyway.

 

[Shady Machine]

Another guy I just saw thrown out as an idea for a Sheary replacement on the 3rd line: Sven Andrighetto. He's a RFA after the year and only has a $1.4 million cap hit. He's a guy that reminds me a lot of Sheary, a left handed shoot first player (averaged 2.2 shots/game last year) who can skate extremely well and can play either wing. I think that could make a lot of sense as a LW target for Brassard, he's a guy they can also try on RW with Crosby because he's a natural RWer.



The question with that is do you think Sullivan would put any of them on the 4th line? I personally doubt it. The safe guess is that Rust would be playing LW if Dzingel would be playing RW, which isn't a swap I'd want to see happen. I agree with you on what this team needs btw, and I think to make an effective Brassard line, you need a Sheary type of LWer for Brassard and Rust/Hornqvist.

Why are you working so hard to replace Sheary with other smurfs?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why are you working so hard to replace Sheary with other smurfs?

Because they need to replace the skill set Sheary has and that usually comes in the form of a guy who's like 5'9" or 5'10" and between 170 and 185 lbs. You're not going to find too many very fast goal scorers who are 6'1" and 205 lbs.

 

[Riptide]

I'd also rather keep Cullen's minutes down, I haven't been very happy with how Sullivan has used Cullen in a couple of games this year. But that's just more of a comment of I don't like how they're running the lines right now and I'd rather not give Sullivan the idea that he should continue to run the lines like this. I want Brassard solely to be playing center and the team to be rolling all 4 of its lines, instead of jumbling the lines to oblivion the second the game gets close.

Agreed. Him playing 14/15 minutes a game is too much. I mean in general for a player it's fine... but no one who's 42 in a week.

Meh. This likely isn't going to happen - so some might as well just accept it.

 

[Riptide]

Another guy I just saw thrown out as an idea for a Sheary replacement on the 3rd line: Sven Andrighetto. He's a RFA after the year and only has a $1.4 million cap hit. He's a guy that reminds me a lot of Sheary, a left handed shoot first player (averaged 2.2 shots/game last year) who can skate extremely well and can play either wing. I think that could make a lot of sense as a LW target for Brassard, he's a guy they can also try on RW with Crosby because he's a natural RWer.

If I was looking at players in Colorado, I'd be looking at Calvert and Nieto.

Because they need to replace the skill set Sheary has and that usually comes in the form of a guy who's like 5'9" or 5'10" and between 170 and 185 lbs. You're not going to find too many very fast goal scorers who are 6'1" and 205 lbs.

At least not ones we'd realistically be able to trade for. That said, I'm more interested in the skill we lost with Sheary then his high end speed.

 

[billybudd]

I am actually curious, what makes Boedker so terrible? His possession stats seem crappy, but he has produced pretty well recently outside of 2016-2017.

Boedker's Arizona production is a mirage. Consisted disproportionately of second assists on the #1 powerplay unit. Just by virtue of being on a #1 powerplay unit, you'll pick up points, whether your performance dictates you belong there or not (see also: Tarnstrom, Dick or Jackman, Rick).

The guy's a third-liner with poor two-way play being paid as if he's something he's not.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Boedker's Arizona production is a mirage. Consisted disproportionately of second assists on the #1 powerplay unit. Just by virtue of being on a #1 powerplay unit, you'll pick up points, whether your performance dictates you belong there or not (see also: Tarnstrom, Dick or Jackman, Rick).

The guy's a third-liner with poor two-way play being paid as if he's something he's not.

He should send the Pens org 1/2 his pay check. He hit the "we need to play fast like the Pens" jackpot.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He does give me the vibe of a "good producer on a bad team" type of player, so this makes sense. I think pixies described Tatar in the same way, I can see that making sense with Boedker. However, I don't think what you're saying is true about him. Boedker did produce at a decent rate last year, he finished with 29 ES points and 27 primary points last year, which isn't bad at all. In his last 3 years with the Coyotes, he had a PP production split of 11 goals, 11 primary assists and 13 secondary assists. Sure, that's more secondaries than primary assists, but I don't think that's a ridiculous spread where it's worthwhile to mention.

The big thing with Boedker is that his possession stats suck, but his production seems pretty fine outside of his bad season with the Sharks 2 years ago. 29 ES points last year, 32 ES points in 2015-2016, pace of 31 ES points/82 games since 2013-2014...those are fine numbers. I'd buy that he's a 3rd liner, because he's putting up a 30 point ES pace while playing top-6 minutes, but I'd still say he's probably a good 3rd liner. I just don't think it's fair to knock him over something like secondary assists, when he still puts up ES points and points at a pretty solid 2nd/3rd line tweener level.

He should send the Pens org 1/2 his pay check. He hit the "we need to play fast like the Pens" jackpot.

I don't think he's even overpaid, he made like $4 million with the Sharks and only makes $3 million now. He's pretty fairly paid if he's just a 3rd liner who brings nothing but speed, seeing what comparable wingers have gotten in free agency.

 

[mpp9]

JJ has been on the ice for 6GF and 10GA at ES. GF he is 3rd on Pens dmen (2 behind Letang and Dumo) but GA he's the worst by 3. That's brutal.

I don't think it's fair to expect him being a positive goal differential player given his zone starts and overall deployment. But yeah, -4 there in only 7 games ain't great.

Like I said, gotta hope the damage in the D-zone is reduced over time and he can earn his paycheck in the offensive zone helping keep plays alive.

Getting Schultz back playing at a 16-17 level or acquiring another reliable big minute D-man would do wonders. Maatta is not that player. Riikola is still learning. And Oleksiak needs to be sheltered.

 

[Riptide]

I don't think he's even overpaid, he made like $4 million with the Sharks and only makes $3 million now. He's pretty fairly paid if he's just a 3rd liner who brings nothing but speed, seeing what comparable wingers have gotten in free agency.

He still carries a 4m cap hit, and Ottawa isn't the team that's going to be retaining on him anytime soon. If Dzingel isn't an option then I'd be kicking tires on someone like Caggiula or Panik. Perlini would be a Godsend, but I doubt he'd actually be available. Or maybe just go back to Archibald or even Wilson and see how he'd do.

But assuming Perlini isn't a realistic option, Dzingel and Panik would be my top options. Would need some retention, but as pending FAs that shouldn't be a big issue.

 

[Turin]

Brodie is a hell of a lot better than Daley. Perhaps not at his peak - but Brodie is on average much better. Daley had 1 season of 30 points+. Brodie has had 5, including two at 40pts+.

Sure, but I meant the Daley the Pens got, not his average.

 

[billybudd]

He does give me the vibe of a "good producer on a bad team" type of player, so this makes sense. I think pixies described Tatar in the same way, I can see that making sense with Boedker.

That was me, and I like Tatar way, way more than I like Boedker.

You don't necessarily have to take my opinion at face value, though. You can run the player by the Sharks board, where I would expect their opinion of him is well south of what we all thought of Sutter at the nadir of his popularity. But that's just my guess. Maybe they have a higher opinion of the player than I do.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He still carries a 4m cap hit, and Ottawa isn't the team that's going to be retaining on him anytime soon. If Dzingel isn't an option then I'd be kicking tires on someone like Caggiula or Panik. Perlini would be a Godsend, but I doubt he'd actually be available. Or maybe just go back to Archibald or even Wilson and see how he'd do.

But assuming Perlini isn't a realistic option, Dzingel and Panik would be my top options. Would need some retention, but as pending FAs that shouldn't be a big issue.

Oh, I thought he had a $3 million cap hit where the Sharks retained on him. Him still being at $4 million makes him dramatically less attractive.

Trade Rumors: Alex Edler a player to keep an eye on

Edler likely being unwilling to waive his NTC makes this dramatically less likely to happen, but it's worth sharing.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm trying to think of a good comparable for what I think of every time I watch Boedker play. Dominik Simon, but with wheels? I can't think of someone. Boedker always struck me as a good who was a decent playmaker with wheels, but nothing else that stood out. And his playmaking isn't *that* good for it to be his one top six attribute.

 

[Andy99]

Oh, I thought he had a $3 million cap hit where the Sharks retained on him. Him still being at $4 million makes him dramatically less attractive.

Trade Rumors: Alex Edler a player to keep an eye on

Edler likely being unwilling to waive his NTC makes this dramatically less likely to happen, but it's worth sharing.

Yeah, I wouldn’t be interested in him now but at the TDL, when his cost comes down, he’d be a good pick up...his primary skill is blocking shots, like Ian Cole...he’d be useful in the POs...

 

[Turin]

I'm trying to think of a good comparable for what I think of every time I watch Boedker play. Dominik Simon, but with wheels? I can't think of someone. Boedker always struck me as a good who was a decent playmaker with wheels, but nothing else that stood out. And his playmaking isn't *that* good for it to be his one top six attribute.

That doesn’t speak well for Simon then. I’m not sure that fits though.

 

[mpp9]

D-men usually take at least a whole season to acclimate to a new team. Especially higher end D who impact the game more and need to figure out how to do it with a new supporting cast and system.

I'd much prefer a scenario where Schultz comes back healthy and contributing, and JJ/Rik can provide some support for the Dumo/Letang pairing. And use our assets to set the forward group up to control possession more. We could use another LWer with some size, scoring acumen and reliability in all zones.

Wingers more regularly make immediate impacts than D.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Just listened to JR's show. While he did not critique Sully, he even made a point to make certain he wasn't. He clearly stated that Sprong hasn't been given a chance to show what's he's capable of.

Please stop saying "Sprong's not producing". Sully is pouting about his fav's being shipped out and Sprong's caught in the middle of a peeing match.

 

[mpp9]

Just listened to JR's show. While he did not critique Sully, he even made a point to make certain he wasn't. He clearly stated that Sprong hasn't been given a chance to show what's he's capable of.

Please stop saying "Sprong's not producing". Sully is pouting about his fav's being shipped out and Sprong's caught in the middle of peeing match.

Coach and GM disagree. It happens. Calm down.

No NHL coach on a contending team is gonna go out of his way to cater to a rookie playing a position where we have three better and more established options.

Sheary broke in with this team as a LW/RW and produced in the limited minutes he was given. Before Guentzel. And before Rust established himself as an NHL top 9 RW.