Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Well, now what?

[Empoleon8771]

I get that. I go back and forth on it, but I seem to like Sheahan more than most. If they go with the balanced offense approach, then yeah, I think they need someone better than Sheahan. If they go with the traditional defensive bottom 6 (not Craig Adams 'defense' mind you), then I think Sheahan would be alright as 3C.

I don't think the problem is running traditional or balanced approach. I think the issue is that you don't have a 3rd line winger that's both good enough and a good enough fit with Sheahan for me to be comfortable with depth scoring from the 3rd line with Sheahan as the center. Considering the Penguins are either going to have an unproven Blueger or another year older Cullen as their 4C next year, that's not really something I want to test out.

If Sprong turns into something, you can put him in the top-6 and put Kessel on the 3rd line, and that 3rd line will produce despite Kessel and Sheahan not being a great fit with each other. That's really your only option to make a 3rd line with Sheahan as the center offensively viable for a legit cup contender, though. It's either that or you're going to need to pull a 2nd line playmaking winger with speed and grit out of thin air.

 

[The Old Master]

I don't think the problem is running traditional or balanced approach. I think the issue is that you don't have a 3rd line winger that's both good enough and a good enough fit with Sheahan for me to be comfortable with depth scoring from the 3rd line with Sheahan as the center. Considering the Penguins are either going to have an unproven Blueger or another year older Cullen as their 4C next year, that's not really something I want to test out.

If Sprong turns into something, you can put him in the top-6 and put Kessel on the 3rd line, and that 3rd line will produce despite Kessel and Sheahan not being a great fit with each other. That's really your only option to make a 3rd line with Sheahan as the center offensively viable for a legit cup contender, though. It's either that or you're going to need to pull a 2nd line playmaking winger with speed and grit out of thin air.

kessel and Sheahan seem to be a good fit to me...…. Sheahan lets kessel run things, that makes phil happy. happy phil scores, making me happy.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Hey, I'll jump on any opportunity I get to rag on corsi!

Line A: generates 7 shots on goal (12 attempts), all of which are low-danger. Gives up 2 shots on goal (7 attempts), one of which is a high-danger chance that results in a goal.

Line B: generates 3 shots on goal (6 attempts), all of which are high-danger chances, resulting in one goal. Give up 8 shots on goal (13 attempts), all of which are low danger, resulting in no goals.

corsi says Line A vastly outperformed Line B. I disagree.

Corsi to me is useless because it doesn't factor in quality of attempt (or your regular defensive pairing if you're on a forward line, and vice versa). That's the one "advanced" stat where the ol' "watch the games" response really does prove superior.

This board whined for a legit skilled top six winger (me included), for years. Pens finally get one and lots of people either want to trade him or put him on the third line because it worked one time.

Just bananas.

Sometimes the best idea, is the simple one. Like playing your star winger with your star center. I’m so tired of hearing that Malkin not shooting is Kessel’s fault. Please. I’m tired of hearing they need their own line. Please.

Lemieux Francis Jagr owned the league when they played together and they only played with one puck back then to.

Kessel-Malkin works. It worked to win a cup, and it’s working again. Maybe sometimes it hits lulls, but so does every good line I’ve watched. If Malkin starts gunning the puck liberally like he should be when he’s with Kessel, those two will be extremely difficult to stop. It’s a Malkin mindset, nothing more.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This board whined for a legit skilled top six winger (me included), for years. Pens finally get one and lots of people either want to trade him or put him on the third line because it worked one time.

Just bananas.

Sometimes the best idea, is the simple one. Like playing your star winger with your star center. I’m so tired of hearing that Malkin not shooting is Kessel’s fault. Please. I’m tired of hearing they need their own line. Please.

Lemieux Francis Jagr owned the league when they played together and they only played with one puck back then to.

Kessel-Malkin works. It worked to win a cup, and it’s working again. Maybe sometimes it hits lulls, but so does every good line I’ve watched. If Malkin starts gunning the puck liberally like he should be when he’s with Kessel, those two will be extremely difficult to stop. It’s a Malkin mindset, nothing more.

What I took away from this is Jiggy thinks Malkin should be moved to LW and we bring in a playmaking center to play with him and Kessel.

 

[Turin]

What I took away from this is Jiggy thinks Malkin should be moved to LW and we bring in a playmaking center to play with him and Kessel.

Crosby.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

What I took away from this is Jiggy thinks Malkin should be moved to LW and we bring in a playmaking center to play with him and Kessel.

If they could swing McDavid for Sprong I’d have no issues with this.

 

[PensandCaps]

Malkin-Brassard-Kessel

 

[Tender Rip]

So, we should trade Brassard because the coach is experimenting with lines but not how you would do it and Kessel and Malkin don’t work because the goals were gimmes.

Wow. Strong on reading.

I do not say we should trade Brassard. I have elsewhere considered the option of doing so IF we cannot find a way to utilize him effectively - which in my opinion would be the very way he was when he just arrived. That would be my priority.
Malkin/Kessel almost always "work" in the sense that they produce offense. There is no disputing that. I am however pointing out that Malkin produces with almost everyone, and that Malkin/Kessel do not in fact outscore their opposition on average, which makes their production a lot less impressive and means the return on one of the most expensive lines in hockey is less than what many make it out to be.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Their 3rd best LW is in WBS. His name is Johnson, A..dam Johnson.

You think he's a better nhl lw than rust?

 

[EightyOne]

You think he's a better nhl lw than rust?

Rust sure isn't good LW. Or RW, lately.

 

[Zirakzigil]

If they could swing McDavid for Sprong I’d have no issues with this.

Except McDavid isn’t a center.

 

[Turin]

Calgary fans are souring on TJ Brodie. Maybe you could swing a Maatta/something for Brodie trade? I’m not really itching to chase Maatta away, but I’m not sure there’s a closer comparable to pre-injury Daley in the league.

 

[UnrealMachine]

To those who took the glass half-full stance with the JJ contract:

 

[Empoleon8771]

To those who took the glass half-full stance with the JJ contract:

It has been 7 games with Johnson having as many good games as bad games so far. Chill.

I don't know why Brassard gets so much more rope on here than Johnson does. If Brassard deserves time to adjust to the system, why doesn't Johnson? Johnson's issues are things that Martin and Gonchar should be able to fix.

 

[Ogrezilla]

It has been 7 games with Johnson having as many good games as bad games so far. Chill.

I don't know why Brassard gets so much more rope on here than Johnson does. If Brassard deserves time to adjust to the system, why doesn't Johnson? Johnson's issues are things that Martin and Gonchar should be able to fix.

Because brassard has a history of being a much much better player than Johnson.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because brassard has a history of being a much much better player than Johnson.

Are we talking about the same Johnson and Brassard? To say that Brassard has a history of being a "much much" better player than Johnson basically ignores that Johnson was used as a #1 defenseman for a stretch of like 6 years.

We're not talking about a career #5 defenseman and comparing him to Brassard here, we're talking about a guy who was basically on the same level as Dion Phaneuf in Toronto for a vast majority of his career. This is either crazily overrating Brassard, who has been only a 2C over his career, or crazily underrating Johnson.

 

[UnrealMachine]

The "JJ" in my comment was referring to Jack Johnson, not Derick Brassard. Sorry for any confusion on my part.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Because brassard has a history of being a much much better player than Johnson.

Eh...or people don't want to admit they're wrong. As it stands right now, the trade for Brassad has been a flop. I seem to remember the day the trade was made, many people here were breathlessly excited about the move.

Me, eh. I had a wait and see attitude stating I never saw from Brassard what other here saw with him. Nearly 50 games later, eh.

In fairness to Brassard, Sully has not worked the lineup enough to see if there are better linemates for Derek to be successful.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Are we talking about the same Johnson and Brassard? To say that Brassard has a history of being a "much much" better player than Johnson basically ignores that Johnson was used as a #1 defenseman for a stretch of like 6 years.

We're not talking about a career #5 defenseman and comparing him to Brassard here, we're talking about a guy who was basically on the same level as Dion Phaneuf in Toronto for a vast majority of his career. This is either crazily overrating Brassard, who has been only a 2C over his career, or crazily underrating Johnson.

Johnson has been pretty bad for quite some time. Before that he was unsuccessfully used in roles he shouldn't have been used in.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Johnson has been pretty bad for quite some time. Before that he was unsuccessfully used in roles he shouldn't have been used in.

Eh, you're comparing a guy playing a #1D and giving crappy results to a guy who produced like a 2C in like half of his seasons in the NHL. I think you're overstating the difference between the two, Johnson was a Phaneuf type of defenseman being used like a #1 when he wasn't a #1 defenseman. He's been at worst a middle pair defenseman over his career, or a guy who can play top pair minutes and play in all situations with mediocre results. I don't think Brassard is "much much" better than that.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Eh, you're comparing a guy playing a #1D and giving crappy results to a guy who produced like a 2C in like half of his seasons in the NHL. I think you're overstating the difference between the two, Johnson was a Phaneuf type of defenseman being used like a #1 when he wasn't a #1 defenseman. He's been at worst a middle pair defenseman over his career, or a guy who can play top pair minutes and play in all situations with mediocre results. I don't think Brassard is "much much" better than that.

Call it recent history then. Maybe I put too many muches in here, but one has been a good player recently and the other has been bad recently.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Call it recent history then. Maybe I put too many muches in here, but one has been a good player recently and the other has been bad recently.

That's fair to say, since Johnson was ass last year and Brassard was pretty much at his career normal last year. But on the flip side, I also think you can justify being more patient with Johnson than Brassard because you have him long term and you only have Brassard for the year.

 

[chethejet]

I think the off season moves with the trade for Brassard last year forced moves that were not good. JJ was a questionable add for that contract. not adding a capable LW and thinking Reese is going to fill that role was suspect. Now the vulnerability of the D is magnified with Schultz's injury. See how it plays out but GMJR in a cap world can't have everything. Pens need to address the roster and makeup sometime this year. GMJR went in on a trade that was not as critical as the season went along. Not all trades work out as thought.

 

[The Greatest 101]

Any comparable defensive prospect we can swap Sprong for? Dude has no future here because he can’t skate.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think the off season moves with the trade for Brassard last year forced moves that were not good. JJ was a questionable add for that contract. not adding a capable LW and thinking Reese is going to fill that role was suspect. Now the vulnerability of the D is magnified with Schultz's injury. See how it plays out but GMJR in a cap world can't have everything. Pens need to address the roster and makeup sometime this year. GMJR went in on a trade that was not as critical as the season went along. Not all trades work out as thought.

A take I think people here may be angered about: trading Sheary and thinking both to give Johnson that contract and Simon can replace him looks pretty foolish so far.