Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | The Faster We Go the Rounder We Get

[Honour Over Glory]

We have good D but Dumo, Letang and Maatta have a flaw that really stick out. Different would be better. Adding a really good skater would be awesome.

I’d almost rather trying to get 3 middle pairs than a top, middle and bottom. Not sure how we go about that or if it’s realistic. I think we’d be better off though.

The issue is that the team is married to the notion that Dumo and Letang NEED to be together and Maatta NEEDS to be with Schultz. That stubbornness is causing some issues defensively, but then we've also seen this team play damn solid games with those pairings, so it tells me it's a lot more to do with the coaching stuff than it has to do with the players on that front.

Moving that D now would be asinine. Revisit in the off season and see who to keep, but not during the season. Unless it's dumping Hunwick or Cole, then it's whatever. But even Letang, the moment he's back to his normal training, he WILL be back to his old self, moving him would probably be one of the dumbest things this team does in recent memory in regards to moving a player that shouldn't be moved at all. He's an abomination this year, fine, dude also prepares insanely hard and didn't have that shot, literally had a fraction of that time, I have been guilty of wanting him gone too, but cooler heads prevail after.

 

[WayneSid9987]

From what i understand Bergevin wants someone younger and cheaper that has Patches level production potential.

Problem JR has, he can easily include the 1st+Sheary but adding Sprong to that for only 2 runs of Patches...May be a little too rich for his blood.
Could go after him more in the summer when the cap goes up 5M potentially and Patches has 1 yr left.

I think Cole only goes if he can get something substantial up front for him.
Probably prefers the D depth for a potential run instead.
Hags, it became clearer to me earlier on that JR would like to keep him for this run 100%.
I'm curious what the Duchene offer was. Was the cap dumb portion Sheary+Cole or Hags or was it Maatta?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

From what i understand Bergevin wants someone younger and cheaper that has Patches level production potential.

Problem JR has, he can easily include the 1st+Sheary but adding Sprong to that for only 2 runs of Patches...May be a little too rich for his blood.
Could go after him more in the summer when the cap goes up 5M potentially and Patches has 1 yr left.

Bergevin is a guy that doesn't seem to have a finger on the pulse in the NHL, he's doing what Sakic did with his player and this one is going to bite him in the ass. I would not be shocked at all if Patches is not moved at the deadline and then he gets even less when he tries to move him at the draft. If all JR does is add Plekanec instead for a 2nd + 3rd to get 50% retention, cool.

Simon, Crosby, Sheary
Hagelin, Malkin, Hornqvist
Guentzel, Plekanec, Kessel
Kuhnhackl, Sheahan, Rust

Dumoulin, Letang
Maatta, Schultz
Oleksiak, Ruhwedel

*Hunwick, Cole

We're set.


Also to add...

If we don't go after Patches with 1yr and the rest of this season, I don't go after him with 1yr left, not at all. The cost would not be worth the risk of losing a player for the package likely needed to be given up to land him. Let someone else be that idiot.

 

[Tom Hanks]

The issue is that the team is married to the notion that Dumo and Letang NEED to be together and Maatta NEEDS to be with Schultz. That stubbornness is causing some issues defensively, but then we've also seen this team play damn solid games with those pairings, so it tells me it's a lot more to do with the coaching stuff than it has to do with the players on that front.

Moving that D now would be asinine. Revisit in the off season and see who to keep, but not during the season. Unless it's dumping Hunwick or Cole, then it's whatever. But even Letang, the moment he's back to his normal training, he WILL be back to his old self, moving him would probably be one of the dumbest things this team does in recent memory in regards to moving a player that shouldn't be moved at all. He's an abomination this year, fine, dude also prepares insanely hard and didn't have that shot, literally had a fraction of that time, I have been guilty of wanting him gone too, but cooler heads prevail after.

Yeah I didn’t mean now. With Letang it would depend on the return but I’d certainly explore it. I’ve never thought to move him until this season. He looks so different. He makes a lot of errors and is less capable of correcting those mistakes. When we are rolling I think the best way to beat us is on turnovers. I’d rather minimise that and because of his position they are generally in bad areas on the ice.

Agree with a lot of your post though.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

“What we like in a third-line center is a guy who has a strong two-way game,” Penguins coach Mike Sullivan said. “Who’s dependable and reliable defensively, that we can use in defensive scenarios if we need to, and has the ability to kill penalties, but also has an offensive dimension to his game.

“With our team in particular, with a third-line center who has an offensive dimension to his game, it helps us spread our talent and create more balance through our lineup, that I think makes our team harder to play against.”

Why adding a No. 3 center is the Penguins' No. 1 priority

Translation: we need a center who can exploit Phil at ES, because what we got ain't getting it done.

Good to hear the coach say what most here already figured out though.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

We have good D but Dumo, Letang and Maatta have a flaw that really stick out. Different would be better. Adding a really good skater would be awesome.

I’d almost rather trying to get 3 middle pairs than a top, middle and bottom. Not sure how we go about that or if it’s realistic. I think we’d be better off though.

The thing is pretty much every player ever has a flaw and most of them aren’t subtle. Dumoulin, Schultz and Maatta have accomplished a lot and are still young... and aren’t currently potentially ruined by injury.

I’d like to add another PMD (weak 4/strong 5 to be semi realistic) to put with Oleksiak but the biggest problem is still their most played defensemen being an idiotic wreck. They can’t have a 7.25M problem playing 25+ a game. I think they’d be better off with a 1D but Letang hasn’t been that this season. If Letang can’t be that anymore they’ve got to adapt. Move him to balance out the D or acquire a replacement. If he can’t/won’t be moved then treat him like a normal defenseman where he’s not foisted on PP1 or given a tonne of minutes regardless. I’d say they’re not utilizing other defensemen properly because of Letang right now and Letang isn’t making that worthwhile.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Why adding a No. 3 center is the Penguins' No. 1 priority

Translation: we need a center who can exploit Phil at ES, because what we got ain't getting it done.

Good to hear the coach say what most here already figured out though.

It was always pretty obvious.
Think the problem was, as i've said before, teams need to be out of it/backed into a corner to drop prices.
DET was the only one so far...JR pounced.
These next 4 weeks, is when things open up on that front.

Also i'd add in to that, that i believe JR would like to acquire another impactful player. Likely at C or LW. Thus the pursuit of Duchene. Now he can assess prices at this deadline, probably settles on just a 3C without extracting anything/much then continue the impact player search in the summer with the cap potentially increasing 5M..

 

[mpp9]

So Pacioretty is getting traded soon according to the guy who knows everything French Canadian and hockey.

Do it JR.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So Pacioretty is getting traded soon according to the guy who knows everything French Canadian and hockey.

Do it JR.

I like Patches and all, I just don't see it being a prudent use of assets for us when we clearly need a good 3C more than we need another scoring wing.

If JR could swing both, by all means, but that'd be some epic trading.

 

[mpp9]

I like Patches and all, I just don't see it being a prudent use of assets for us when we clearly need a good 3C more than we need another scoring wing.

If JR could swing both, by all means, but that'd be some epic trading.

Pacioretty is miles better than any 3C. Kessel type impact. Im using Sprong in a trade for a true game changer long before a deal for Pageau.

You can find your rental 3C using a 2nd-4th rounder.

 

[Tom Hanks]

The thing is pretty much every player ever has a flaw and most of them aren’t subtle. Dumoulin, Schultz and Maatta have accomplished a lot and are still young... and aren’t currently potentially ruined by injury.

I’d like to add another PMD (weak 4/strong 5 to be semi realistic) to put with Oleksiak but the biggest problem is still their most played defensemen being an idiotic wreck. They can’t have a 7.25M problem playing 25+ a game. I think they’d be better off with a 1D but Letang hasn’t been that this season. If Letang can’t be that anymore they’ve got to adapt. Move him to balance out the D or acquire a replacement. If he can’t/won’t be moved then treat him like a normal defenseman where he’s not foisted on PP1 or given a tonne of minutes regardless. I’d say they’re not utilizing other defensemen properly because of Letang right now and Letang isn’t making that worthwhile.

Yeah everyone has flaws but we have three of our top 4 with ones that stick out quite a bit.

Dumoulin brings very little offense. He’s ranked 154-174 in production (he’s played more games than everyone equal to him). That’s poor for the amount of ice time/salary he gets.

Maatta obviously has acceleration issues but I guess with him he has the brains to overcome that whether defending or breaking out. He generally makes the right decision.

Letang. Bad IQ, makes poor decisions, lost some of that athleticism (that may come back), reportedly hard to coach, misses a lot of time through injury. Contact issues if it can’t be corrected. We’ve put up with the bad because his best is so good but that seems more distant now.

While they are all good D men those things really stick out. When 3/4 of your top 4 have that it can hurt especially for their combined salaries. I’d move one of them and it’d probably be Letang.

Schultz is the most steady in that regard. He’s alright in the D, zone good offensively (passing and shooting). Doesn’t have a glaring flaw.

I’d like to move for something like

XXXX-Schultz
Dumoulin-XXXX
Maatta-XXXX

The XXXX’s to total around 13 mil max. We’d get one back in a Letang trade (with another piece). That other piece or a forward another D. We’d still have Big O and Ruhwedel as well to battle for one spot.

 

[ColePens]

I like Patches and all, I just don't see it being a prudent use of assets for us when we clearly need a good 3C more than we need another scoring wing.

If JR could swing both, by all means, but that'd be some epic trading.

This all day. As fun as it is to get the big name and have that rush of a trade, that's not the route the Pens need to go. And I stress the word "need" very much. Do I understand if like a St Louis goes hard for him? Sure do. The Pens don't need to make that type of move. If it's cheap - sure. But how is that guy going to be cheap?

 

[Shaffer]

Are you willing to give up Sheary+Sprong+Lauzon+1st for Pacioretty?

 

[Malkinstheman]

Pacioretty is miles better than any 3C. Kessel type impact. Im using Sprong in a trade for a true game changer long before a deal for Pageau.

You can find your rental 3C using a 2nd-4th rounder.

Do you have anyone in particular in mind? If that were the price for a decent 3C rental, JR would have already acquired him. The only rentals available seem to be Plekanec and Letestu and they are far from decent 3C's.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Pacioretty is miles better than any 3C. Kessel type impact. Im using Sprong in a trade for a true game changer long before a deal for Pageau.

You can find your rental 3C using a 2nd-4th rounder.

A 3C who can facilitate Phil is more important for us than a winger like Patches, because we're not going to be any more than a 2 line team unless we get that center...who won't likely be available for a 2nd rounder.

The likes of Letestu or a broken-down Plekanec are not going to get it done.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Pacioretty is miles better than any 3C. Kessel type impact. Im using Sprong in a trade for a true game changer long before a deal for Pageau.

You can find your rental 3C using a 2nd-4th rounder.

You’d probably run into cap problems or really limit the centre you can bring in due to cap restraints. If you even have the cap room.

 

[mpp9]

A 3C who can facilitate Phil is more important for us than a winger like Patches, because we're not going to be any more than a 2 line team unless we get that center...who won't likely be available for a 2nd rounder.

The likes of Letestu or a broken-down Plekanec are not going to get it done.

Acquiring Patches makes another winger that much more expendable. Use him in that trade for a 3C.

I get the team building vs acquiring players argument. But this Patches situation reaks of Kessel in Toronto. One of the best scorers of the last several years is being scapegoated and is going to get moved. If we can get him for futures we can afford to move, ya do it.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Acquiring Patches makes another winger that much more expendable. Use him in that trade for a 3C.

I get the team building vs acquiring players argument. But this Patches situation reaks of Kessel in Toronto. One of the best scorers of the last several years is being scapegoated and is going to get moved. If we can get him for futures we can afford to move, ya do it.

The only winger it could really be is Sheary and if he could have got a 3C it probably would have happened already.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Are you willing to give up Sheary+Sprong+Lauzon+1st for Pacioretty?

Hey, I saw your name on cap friendly trades

 

[mpp9]

The only winger it could really be is Sheary and if he could have got a 3C it probably would have happened already.

Are we just ignoring that like 90% of the league is still in the playoff race. Pending UFAs will get moved like they always do closer to the deadline.

 

[Riptide]

So Pacioretty is getting traded soon according to the guy who knows everything French Canadian and hockey.

Do it JR.

He will be way too expensive to be worth it.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Are we just ignoring that like 90% of the league is still in the playoff race. Pending UFAs will get moved like they always do closer to the deadline.

Who will be out that has a decent UFA centre that we can fit in under the cap if we get Patches (who we can’t fit in at the moment anyway without likely a couple moves)?

 

[ColePens]

Who will be out that has a decent UFA centre that we can fit in under the cap if we get Patches (who we can’t fit in at the moment anyway without likely a couple moves)?

As you said.. we can't even find a guy right now with pretty much everyone available for trade (short of the bigs + Guentzel). So yeah. It's not easy regardless and then the Pens would shoot to make it harder.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Pacioretty is miles better than any 3C. Kessel type impact. Im using Sprong in a trade for a true game changer long before a deal for Pageau.

You can find your rental 3C using a 2nd-4th rounder.

MaxPac is good but shouldn't be compared to Kessel, he's more of just a great goal scorer.

Also, his production in the playoffs has been poor.

 

[Tender Rip]

I like Patches and all, I just don't see it being a prudent use of assets for us when we clearly need a good 3C more than we need another scoring wing.

You are way more polite than I am.