Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building: Summer "Hard Times" Daddy!

[Dipsy Doodle]

Kessel's game away from the puck (or lack of said) is the biggest issue with him. Add periods of bad play with the puck and periods without scoring (like no goals in 20+ games at ES last season) and it's a disaster.

@Soggy Biscuit what would you think about trying ZAR-Crosby-Kessel line next year?? Why only Malkin should be so lucky playing with these two in RS (we know Phil ups his game in PO)
I think there's a reason Kessel is never on Crosby's line (see the first paragraph).

In general, I think it doesn't matter with which center Phil plays, he can perform well with any of our centers, but you need a perfect fit on the opposite wing with him (in Pitt it only is/was Hagelin and Guentzel).

There might be a couple more options. But ZAR sure ain't it.

 

[BrokenStick]

We don't really know for sure that there are no other teams interested in acquiring Kessel.

Everyone's just assuming that if there were that the deal would have already happened, but there's no reason to make a deal before the draft.

And keep in mind the only leak we've had is from a deal that was already dead in the water at the time that we heard about it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'll never understand people's willingness to split up Sid and Jake. That line carried this mediocre, flawed team to the playoffs. Those two are dynamite together, and they're the one forward combo that works perfectly.

Don't screw with that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

FWIW, Rossi is saying there's only like a 5% chance of Kessel coming back next year. He's basically attributing JR's comments to be posturing. It's well known that Kessel doesn't want to play for Sullivan anymore, so they're going to frame a potentially bad return as "he didn't want to be here and our locker room couldn't handle it".

 

[ownal]

Who is more expendable? Bjugstad or Rust?

 

[LittleSpoon]

They'd still offer it though, right? No reason not to and every reason to hope that Phil says "Oh, go on then" - particularly when he didn't turn down Minnesota immediately and there's been plenty of talk about how he might decide to go there if its there or Pittsburgh. Why wouldn't a Nashville or Colorado see whether they couldn't equal the offer and get him?

Why release the info if it’s shot down immediately. I’m not one to assume that I hear every offer JR gets over the phone.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Less worried about the numbers, more worried about lack of talent/skill with losing Phil.

Nice thing about high-end players like Kessel or Laine is that they can completely disappear for all but maybe 5 seconds then score a goal or feather an assist.

Not necessarily a good thing but I do worry about having enough talent outside of 87/71 to bail us out of games where maybe the “earned goals” aren’t bouncing our way. Same thing for the PP.

If/when we trade Kessel, feel like you may want to add a Panik or Labanc type who can play in the middle six and maybe bring some of that to the table, over 200ft guys like Hags or Ferland.

 

[The Old Master]

Everyone's just assuming that if there were that the deal would have already happened, but there's no reason to make a deal before the draft.

unless the other team makes another trade for the guy you wanted.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Who is more expendable? Bjugstad or Rust?

Pretty close but Rust IMO

I thought Bjugstad was very good at 3C for us, Rust doesn’t offer that center capability.

 

[Tom Hanks]

People conveniently forget this...this NTC is another reason to hate JR and want him gone, if the Hunwick and JJ signings weren’t enough...

It’s 3 years full NTC (so 2 left), the last 2 years aren’t. Why would you hate JR for that? I imagine he’d get a higher AAV if that was taken out.

From the day he signed the extension these are his stats:

Games: 87 Points: 54 (30G, 24A) 51 point pace (also his career average per 82)

Further to that I think they brought him back too early after his concussion. Here is that break down.

Before concussion
Games: 52 Points: 43 (27G, 16A) 68 point pace

After concussion
Games: 35 Points:11 (3G, 8A) 26 point pace

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Does everyone expect Hornqvist bounce back next season or something? There's zero talk about him, but all things considered, it's another bad fit, especially if he's not allowed to play with Guentzel-Crosby anymore.

If Kessel was ok with playing on 3rd line and GM and HC didn't act moronic in the past two years, I'd keep him over PH.

Wingers with better all-around game and puck moving D is an absolute need for this team.

I think it's some people just resigned to the fact that he's unmovable due to his asinine full NTC and some people who legitimately think he can bounce back. I think he has it in him to at least be a contributor but I have doubts about where he fits in the lineup. But that's been an ongoing concern for a while.

 

[Pens x]

Who is more expendable? Bjugstad or Rust?

Bjugstad is not a good hockey player.

It’s Rust

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Rutherford and Sullivan determined that the team must become more committed to defense, conscientious with the puck and harder to play against to rediscover their championship form.
While Kessel remains one of only 15 NHL players to hit a point per game in each of the past two seasons, none of those desired areas of improvement are exactly his specialty.
But they can be, Rutherford said. They were during the Stanley Cup seasons of 2016-17.
“He can when he wants to,” Rutherford said.

With trade nixed, Penguins GM Jim Rutherford says he’s content keeping Phil Kessel | TribLIVE.com

That about sums it up. And Phil isn't the only one that applies to.

 

[Gurglesons]

Less worried about the numbers, more worried about lack of talent/skill with losing Phil.

Nice thing about high-end players like Kessel or Laine is that they can completely disappear for all but maybe 5 seconds then score a goal or feather an assist.

Not necessarily a good thing but I do worry about having enough talent outside of 87/71 to bail us out of games where maybe the “earned goals” aren’t bouncing our way. Same thing for the PP.

If/when we trade Kessel, feel like you may want to add a Panik or Labanc type who can play in the middle six and maybe bring some of that to the table, over 200ft guys like Hags or Ferland.

People keep saying this, but Phil hasn’t done that for three playoffs.

He has less goals in his last two playoffs than all of our top six forwards. Extend it to three and it is still the same. He has ten goals in his last 40 playoff games. I can think of three games he specifically did what you are saying in. Game 5 Columbus. Game 2 Washington. Game 2 Ottawa. Most of the other goals came in blowouts.

This is actually the major issue with Phil the last three years outside the above. Is he is paid to be that player and he hasn’t done it. Worked in 2017 because you had Jake lighting it up. His no show in Washington and NYI is a major reason we lost.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

So back to the Trouba possibility -which is obviously a long shot

Assuming Phil isn't moved, would Maata plus a high draft pick (s) get us into the conversation and would the numbers work?

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Bjugstad is not a good hockey player.

...

 

[xlm34]

I feel like a lot of people’s expectations for a 3C on this board are outrageous.

 

[Gurglesons]

I feel like a lot of people’s expectations for a 3C on this board are outrageous.

I mean. Bjugstad is definitely more of Brassard IMO.

 

[Andy99]

With trade nixed, Penguins GM Jim Rutherford says he’s content keeping Phil Kessel | TribLIVE.com

That about sums it up. And Phil isn't the only one that applies to.

You know that most players do not play hard for 82 games, right? Except in a few cases like the Isles last year, most teams and many players who aren’t reaching for a personal or team goals (or reacting to snubs) are just not playing all out for the majority of games...and our core, if anyone, especially as they age, definitely subscribe to theory of not playing your hardest for many, many games and shifts within games...whether Phil is there or not, regardless of what JR or Sully wants, no core player on this team will be hard to play against for the majority of games this upcoming year....just a fact...and I’m fine with that as long as they save themselves and bring it in the POs...that’s all that matters

So this idea that they have to rediscover some “championship form” in the RS is fantasy...just not happening...

 

[Andy99]

So back to the Trouba possibility -which is obviously a long shot

Assuming Phil isn't moved, would Maata plus a high draft pick (s) get us into the conversation and would the numbers work?

Probably would be Schultz but WPG reportedly wants an additional player as well

 

[Andy99]

It’s 3 years full NTC (so 2 left), the last 2 years aren’t. Why would you hate JR for that? I imagine he’d get a higher AAV if that was taken out.

From the day he signed the extension these are his stats:

Games: 87 Points: 54 (30G, 24A) 51 point pace (also his career average per 82)

Further to that I think they brought him back too early after his concussion. Here is that break down.

Before concussion
Games: 52 Points: 43 (27G, 16A) 68 point pace

After concussion
Games: 35 Points:11 (3G, 8A) 26 point pace

It may be the concussions and Horny will turn it around, but don’t tell me you’re not worried his injury history and age may make it so he’s on the downslope of his career? Given that Horny was 31 and signed a 5-year contract that was not at a discount, to then give him a full NTC for 3 years on top of that was risky...GMs should not be giving out full NTCs to anyone but their star players...

 

[domaug]

Probably would be Schultz but WPG reportedly wants an additional player as well

an additional player and a high draft pick.

so two NHL-ready players and a 1st round pick, basically (just going on an assumption).

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

People keep saying this, but Phil hasn’t done that for three playoffs.

He has less goals in his last two playoffs than all of our top six forwards. Extend it to three and it is still the same. He has ten goals in his last 40 playoff games. I can think of three games he specifically did what you are saying in. Game 5 Columbus. Game 2 Washington. Game 2 Ottawa. Most of the other goals came in blowouts.

This is actually the major issue with Phil the last three years outside the above. Is he is paid to be that player and he hasn’t done it. Worked in 2017 because you had Jake lighting it up. His no show in Washington and NYI is a major reason we lost.

I mean you’re talking strictly goals and strictly in the the playoffs.

I’m just saying his talent allows him to factor into offense (both goals and assists) even when he’s not playing well. He’s not a guy who needs to be “on” to put up points. After 87, 71, and him there’s not really any other forwards on our team that have that level of talent (maybe McCann to some degree?).

Regardless, my point is that when he does go for more rounded guy like Zucker I think we’re better off balancing out & making the next forward addition for a offensive skill player, rather than a checking type of player.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I feel like a lot of people’s expectations for a 3C on this board are outrageous.

So long as that's what he's playing... 3C... I'm more than content with Bjugstad, for now.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean you’re talking strictly goals and strictly in the the playoffs.

I’m just saying his talent allows him to factor into offense (both goals and assists) even when he’s not playing well. He’s not a guy who needs to be “on” to put up points. After 87, 71, and him there’s not really any other forwards on our team that have that level of talent (maybe McCann to some degree?).

Regardless, my point is that when he does go for more rounded guy like Zucker I think we’re better off balancing out & making the next forward addition for a offensive skill player, rather than a checking type of player.

He had two ES goals in the span of nearly 3 months last season.

Also, Jake Guentzel.

I think we are better letting cheaper players profit off of Malkin and Crosby on the powerplay and focusing on players that win us games at ES where the majority of the game is played and are players that fit with our top two centers.