Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building: Summer "Hard Times" Daddy!

[Ugene Magic]

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Previous threads:
Salary Cap: - Salary Cap & Roster Building: The Uncoachable & The Unmovable: The Tale of The American Dream
Salary Cap & Roster Building - Y'all got any more of them Kessel rumors
Salary Cap & Roster building - All of your Pittsburgh born players belong to us
Salary Cap & Roster building - I need a White Russian
Salary Cap: - Salary Cap + Roster Building: Malkin Avengers - EndGame
Salary Cap: - Salary cap+roster building: To Malkin or not to Malkin?
Salary Cap: - Salary Cap + & Roster Building - XXX

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[PensPlz]

When the Skinners of the world getting paid 9 million... Would be foolish to trade Kessel at his cap hit.

Just one man's opinion.

 

[billybudd]

Skinner's not a $9 million player. How many concussions has he had at this point, 15? And unlike Letang, he's a wing.

Edit: looks like he's been healthy the last few years, but I still don't like anything about signing a guy who basically doubled his goal total in a contract year for that much money.

 

[TKalltheTime]

Signing Skinner to that deal is ALMOST as stupid as trading away Kessel.

 

[Riptide]

Signing Skinner to that deal is ALMOST as stupid as trading away Kessel.

So in other words it's not a bad deal and Buffalo did well to make their team better?

 

[Turin]

Skinner's not a $9 million player. How many concussions has he had at this point, 15? And unlike Letang, he's a wing.

Edit: looks like he's been healthy the last few years, but I still don't like anything about signing a guy who basically doubled his goal total in a contract year for that much money.

Just anybody who can’t break 70 points and isn’t good defensively shouldn’t be making that much.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Skinner's not a $9 million player. How many concussions has he had at this point, 15? And unlike Letang, he's a wing.

Edit: looks like he's been healthy the last few years, but I still don't like anything about signing a guy who basically doubled his goal total in a contract year for that much money.

In the 9 seasons (drafted 2010) he’s played 93.5% of the games. In comparison the most games played by any current Penguin drafted from 2008 onwards is about 200 games behind Skinner. He’s pretty durable.

(42 game season was the 48 game lockout year)
Jeff Skinner (b.1992) Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

 

[888 98 twins]

In the 9 seasons (drafted 2010) he’s played 93.5% of the games. In comparison the most games played by any current Penguin drafted from 2008 onwards is about 200 games behind Skinner. He’s pretty durable.

(42 game season was the 48 game lockout year)
Jeff Skinner (b.1992) Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

That's pretty wild. I remember there being questions about whether or not he'd ever play again at one point. IIRC it was right around or right after Sid had his concussion issues.

 

[Riptide]

When the Skinners of the world getting paid 9 million... Would be foolish to trade Kessel at his cap hit.

Just one man's opinion.

Kessel's issues are not directly related to his cap hit, or even his overall production. It's everything else that he brings to the table - or rather that he doesn't bring. And for THIS team, 2019 Kessel is not the best use of 6.8m worth of cap space.

 

[Peat]

Skinner's not a $9 million player. How many concussions has he had at this point, 15? And unlike Letang, he's a wing.

Edit: looks like he's been healthy the last few years, but I still don't like anything about signing a guy who basically doubled his goal total in a contract year for that much money.

Last year was Skinner's lowest shooting percentage in the last 4 years by a huge amount - the only time in that period it wasn't over 10. He was always going to bounce back from that. His 40 goal season is pretty in line with what he did in 16-17 and is the 4th 30+ goal campaign of his career. It's not like this came from nowhere and will never be repeated. The list of guys who've been that consistently prolific through the period Skinner's been active is pretty small - Tavares, Tarasenko, Stamkos, Seguin, Perry, Patches, Pavelski, Ovie, Marchand, Kucherov, Kessel, Crosby, Bergeron, Benn.

I guess you could argue with Patches getting 7m on his latest contract and being probably about the best comparable, that Skinner is a couple of million overpaid... but being that 4 years older makes a difference and Patches signed his contract at his lowest value point. The overpayment on Skinner's a fair chunk less than that.


edit: for everyone pointing at the production/cost of Kessel and saying "Why not keep him?", do you really put no credit at all in the various stuff about him being difficult to coach and that affecting the locker room dynamic, particularly between the coach and the other stars? Or do you believe that's probably a thing but that points are more different?

Also, if the production/cost is so desirable above all other aspects, why isn't the queue for Kessel stretching around the block and down the street? I get that other GMs have seen that Rutherford's tied himself to an anchor with his remarks and that their instinct is to dangle him over the side looking for a bargain rather than untie him, but the price of entry to the sweepstakes has been established pretty darn low; there is plenty of room in which to raise the anchor a bit higher than Minnesota have while getting a bargain, right? So why isn't the rumour market alive with the sound of music?

 

[Shrimper]

But I was told Botteril is a cap genius..

 

[WayneSid9987]

JR's need for a top 6 wing in a Phil deal atm is fine by me but perhaps things change if Phil isn't dealt during the FA interview period up to July.1 and JR can lock in a top 6 winger he really likes.
I guess the first place the mind goes is Ferland and i certainly wouldn't be enthused with him in vs Phil out.
Hopefully they broaden their horizons to the MoJo's and Nyquist's if they're gonna interview some guys.
Once(if) you lock one down, JR can then freely trade Phil away for futures.

End of the day, i simply hope Phil agrees to go to Minny for Zucker but i'm certainly not banking on that.

Also 100% you can't deal Phil for futures without locking in a top 6 winger first. Gambling that a FA will sign certainly hasn't worked in the past...

 

[Lust for Life]

Shame about Horny's NTC. If you could move him for an asset (I still want Virtanen and wouldn't mind overpaying) and then sign Ferland to a comparable contract, I think you would have made an improvement to the team. Then you hope Kessel turns around and waives for Minnesota...

McCann - Crosby - Guentzel
Zucker - Malkin - Rust
Ferland - Bjugstad - Virtanen
Simon - Blueger - ZAR

Younger, faster and with more pushback.
All jokes aside, I wouldn't want to play defense against a line with Ferland and Virtanen on the wings looking for everything and anything to hit.

 

[BrokenStick]

I'd rather have Hornqvist than Ferland, personally.

I mean, it's a moot point, as we're not trading Hornqvist, and wouldn't be even if he didn't have that NTC.

Just as whether or not to keep Kessel is likely a moot point, as it seems the team has decided they don't want him anymore, and has successfully traded him once, even if he blocked it.

Also, Skinner really isn't overpaid. That's the cost of a UFA winger who scores as much as he did this season. As the cap rises, so do salaries.

People should keep that in mind when they suggest we should be going the UFA route to fill in important positions.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Skinner's not a $9 million player. How many concussions has he had at this point, 15? And unlike Letang, he's a wing.

Edit: looks like he's been healthy the last few years, but I still don't like anything about signing a guy who basically doubled his goal total in a contract year for that much money.

I mean, he scored 37 goals in '16-'17.

I imagine playing with Eichel and Reinhart instead of Ryan and Williams plays a pretty big role in the jump too.

 

[Empoleon8771]

There's no chance in hell that Skinner lives up to that contract. Skinner making that much money makes me lose all interest in trading Kessel for only cap space to use in free agency.

 

[xlm34]

Skinner's not a $9 million player. How many concussions has he had at this point, 15? And unlike Letang, he's a wing.

Edit: looks like he's been healthy the last few years, but I still don't like anything about signing a guy who basically doubled his goal total in a contract year for that much money.

He may not be a $9 million dollar player to some teams, but he is to Buffalo right now. That roster is kind of ugly, and getting rid of a 40 goal scorer with no replacement would have been bad.

Plus, Botterill’s back is up against the wall right now and if they don’t have a good season you might see him on the hot seat. I’d overpay a little for a chance at keeping my job.

 

[Andy99]

Yeah, FA sucks...that’s why I think the Pens would be better off making an offer sheet to Kapanen ... if they sign him for $4.3 mil AAV on a three-year contract let’s say, that would cost them a first and third next year, which they have. TOR, even if they trade Marleau, with Johnsson and Marner to sign and not to mention D men, wouldn’t be able to match...other option would be trying to trade a first and third next year for his rights...that’s better than anyone we could pay right now to be an impact player for the Pens while Sid and G are still here...

Let’s say you could do this...the cap works...doesn’t this look better than any FA options...
Jake-Sid-Rust/Simon
Zucker-G-Kapanen
McCann-Bjug-Horny
Simon/ZAR-Blueger-Rust

Dumo-Letang
X-Schultz
Petts-Guds
Riikola-Ruh

 

[Son Goku]

Yeah, FA sucks...that’s why I think the Pens would be better off making an offer sheet to Kapanen ... if they sign him for $4.3 mil AAV on a three-year contract let’s say, that would cost them a first and third next year, which they have. TOR, even if they trade Marleau, with Johnsson and Marner to sign and not to mention D men, wouldn’t be able to match...other option would be trying to trade a first and third next year for his rights...that’s better than anyone we could pay right now to be an impact player for the Pens while Sid and G are still here...

Let’s say you could do this...the cap works...doesn’t this look better than any FA options...
Jake-Sid-Rust/Simon
Zucker-G-Kapanen
McCann-Bjug-Horny
Simon/ZAR-Blueger-Rust

Dumo-Letang
X-Schultz
Petts-Guds
Riikola-Ruh

True and let's be honest we can only hope our low first rounder would turn out to be close to Kapanen.

 

[PensandCaps]

There's no chance in hell that Skinner lives up to that contract. Skinner making that much money makes me lose all interest in trading Kessel for only cap space to use in free agency.

Yep..this exactly.

Kessel at 6.8 is amazing. Unless you're getting a signed #2 Dman for him, no point in moving him for cap space, his deal is too great to move for "cap space"

You got jeff skinner taking up 9 mil.

Kessel at 6.8 is a steal


Bet Brayden Schenn gets 7+ next summer.

 

[K Fleur]

Duchene is about to get paid this summer

 

[iFishyHD]

I am willing to bet one team will offer Kevin Hayes 7M if the Flyers can't get him to sign.

 

[Riptide]

Also, if the production/cost is so desirable above all other aspects, why isn't the queue for Kessel stretching around the block and down the street? I get that other GMs have seen that Rutherford's tied himself to an anchor with his remarks and that their instinct is to dangle him over the side looking for a bargain rather than untie him, but the price of entry to the sweepstakes has been established pretty darn low; there is plenty of room in which to raise the anchor a bit higher than Minnesota have while getting a bargain, right? So why isn't the rumour market alive with the sound of music?

This is a big one for me. I mean for all those saying "just keep him if we don't get good value"... this should be a pretty big red flag that perhaps there's more "issues" with Kessel then what some want to believe. And that while we already have Kessel... perhaps we too should be wanting to divest ourselves of those issues for the same reasons. Because there's reasons other than just GMs playing hardball as to why more than just a couple of teams are not willing to invest into a PPG player with a decent contract.

 

[PensandCaps]

If a winger in Skinner got 9 mil.

Then, Duchene is getting 10 with ease.

So that means the leafs are gonna have to pay Marner 12 at the LEAST.


Aho and Point are clearly better players than Skinner by a lot.

Carolina and Tampa have to be pissed at Buffalo. There is no reason that they should get less than 10.5 if skinner got 9.

 

[molon labe]

When the Skinners of the world getting paid 9 million... Would be foolish to trade Kessel at his cap hit.

Just one man's opinion.

Signing Skinner to that deal is ALMOST as stupid as trading away Kessel.

AKA I read about the Pens, like them as my hockey team - but hardly ever watch them.

---

Also, FWIW - the reason the focus is heavily on Phil right now is similar to why a guy like Skinner would sign sooner than later. Sometimes certain moves have a higher necessity to a team and take priority. Upgrading the defense is key for the Pens, but fixing our broken-ass second line is actually more important. Freeing up cap space is second to that. Fixing the defense falls right in line at third - but by trading Phil, you MIGHT be able to stick JJ or Maatta to that deal and kill two birds with one stone. You're certainly not doing the inverse and trading JJ/Maatta for a good LW for Geno, so you begin your Summer with the deal that has the most smoke around it and has the greatest impact to the team overall.

Why does Skinner not wait around? Because he'd be handcuffing Buffalo the entire time. If you want to play for a team, your best bet is to get your deal done as soon as possible to allow your team more time in the offseason to build 'around you'. If Phil would see the writing on the wall, he'd jump ship to his next team sooner than later so they can address any support pieces necessary for his future line (assuming it's not completed yet). Skinner now allows Buffalo to make his team more competitive....