Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building: Summer "Hard Times" Daddy!

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SHOOTANDSCORE

Eeny Meeny Miny Moe
Sep 25, 2005
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Yes, Sid takes games and shifts off all the time...I’ve watched him his whole career...that’s why people thought he was done after 2015...he gets tired of fighting thru the bs too...

Agree you need to play a certain way for awhile for it to become habitual, but like we saw with the Pens in 2016 and the Caps in 2018, you can start that in February and be on a roll entering the POs, and it’s better to be hot the last half of the season if you want to make it to the SCF anyway, as the Blues show too
I'd argue that a big part of what made the Pens successful in 2016 was building on the foundation of defensive hockey that MJ had them playing. The same dynamic happened in 2009. Those teams had smart, responsible hockey browbeaten into them. It wasn't successful on it's own but it was a necessary component. I'm not sure a couple of months is enough to fully rebuild that structure and then build on it.

Re: Sid. He definitely takes games off, like any player. But I guarandamntee you that he won't be taking off 41 games. He'll be hard to play against for the majority of the games, easily.
 
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ownal

Registered User
Jan 26, 2019
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yeah I thought that was a big reason to make the deal was moving jj. if that's not happing then there needs to be a high pick coming back to make the deal some what fair.

What about Kessel for Zucker and swap 1sts. Use that 1st swapped + JJ to get Mantha with extension?
 

Tom Hanks

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Nov 10, 2017
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Why? We save cap and get a similar ES goal producer at our weakest positional need.

Phil had double the assists but that makes sense too on a team that scored 271 goals (Minn 210). Trade really makes sense for both teams.

Then there are the “one percenter” stats (little things but can really help) like takeaway/giveaways.

Zucker: 47 takeaways, 31 giveaways
Kessel: 33 takeaways, 78 giveaways
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
76,530
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Zucker is better than Kapanen and that’s the only valuable thing Pitts gave for Phil, when Phil was younger and better.

Kapanen was about 7 years younger and 5 mil cheaper, and came with a 1st round pick. Kessel has also since proven himself on a champion and is coming off a much more productive season.

A Kapanen-level prospect and a 1st round pick would be a lot better return than Zucker.
 
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Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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Tbh, with Zucker's other trade value established at roughly 1st + Frolik, I think that's roughly equal in value to 1st + Kapanen, as Frolik's value at this point is just rental, and Kapanen (back then) would have been an okay return for a Frolik style rental.
 

Clare2904

LEGEND!
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Oct 22, 2016
14,685
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Montreal
Maatta/bjugstad for Danault/2nd
Hagelin @ 2.5
Jordin Benn @ 1.5
Ferland @ 5.5
Rust/JJ for a 7th to Ottawa


Guentzel - Crosby - Mccann
Ferland - Malkin - Horny
Hagelin - Danault - Kessel
Simon - TB - Zar


Dumo - Letang
Petts - Schultz
Benn - Gudbranson
Rik/Ruh

Ouch @ $20 million dollar 2nd line. But after this season Horny atleast has some movement clause.
You really like the Habs
 

pistolpete11

Registered User
Apr 27, 2013
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There probably is a deal to be made there (and iirc, they were reported to be interested in Johnson), but probably not for Mantha or AA ;)
If they were, that was when Ken Holland was running things. He's moved on and Stevie Y. is in charge now. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing. Stevie Y. obviously helped build a damn good team in Tampa, but he also took on Girardi and Callahan, so who knows.
 
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Trade

Guentzel is ELITE
Apr 13, 2015
7,077
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I see Washington paying like 1.5 to 2 million more than they'd want to pay for Vrana rather than letting us pry him away.

Who exactly do they have to resign, don't know much about their situation but if we could somehow snag Vrana for Geno's LW I would be thrilled.
 

Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Kapanen was about 7 years younger and 5 mil cheaper, and came with a 1st round pick. Kessel has also since proven himself on a champion and is coming off a much more productive season.

A Kapanen-level prospect and a 1st round pick would be a lot better return than Zucker.

Kapanen was not even Toronto’s first choice of prospect. They targeted Pouliot and Sprong first and settle for what was 30th overall and Kapanen.
 
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Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,407
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Redmond, WA
Kapanen was about 7 years younger and 5 mil cheaper, and came with a 1st round pick. Kessel has also since proven himself on a champion and is coming off a much more productive season.

A Kapanen-level prospect and a 1st round pick would be a lot better return than Zucker.

No it wouldn't, that's pretty much exactly where Zucker's value is based on the Frolik and a 1st for Zucker deal that fell through at the deadline.
 

vodeni

Registered User
Oct 27, 2010
30,059
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Pittsburgh
I don’t think you get my point. Zucker for Phil is fine with me at this point. I’m saying the next add after that should be a skillful player in the mold of Phil-lite rather than a player like Hagelin. Team will have a ton of dirty area players and a IMO a cheaper middle six skill guy would compliment them better.

And Phil still was close to PP/G in that span. Which goes to show that he doesn’t need to play well whatsoever to factor in offensively.

Don’t really agree on Guentzel tbh. Love the kid but he’s like the best complimentary player in the league (and one of the smartest). Don’t think he brings a ton of skill, and he was so consistent last year that I don’t really know what he looks like when he’s off. (Regardless, Guentzel doesn’t really matter because he’s tethered to Crosby and L1. Want to hand some hands/scoring touch to L2/3)
maybe you want to rewatch those 4 games against Isles, :sarcasm:
 

Big Friggin Dummy

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Feb 22, 2019
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Zucker, assuming he gets back to 65pt level (which I think would be a safe bet), is absolutely the best we're getting for a 32 year old, temperamental winger. I'm still putting Zucker with Sid and Jake, so it doesn't really fix Geno's wing, but the combination of Jake-Sid-Zucker would absolutely decimate the NHL.

As far as the Kap+1st return; it's just whatever you value at the moment. A Kap+1st return gives us much more cap flexibility and sets us up to be better down the road. Zucker is a guy who steps in immediately and has a significant impact, but he's also young enough to be around (and at a high level) well after Geno and Letang's deals are up in three years.

The cap relief from a Kap+1st type of return doesn't do a ton for us though because Skinner's off the table, Panarin doesn't want to play/live in a city like Pittsburgh, and Duchene is a center first and foremost.
 
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pistolpete11

Registered User
Apr 27, 2013
11,592
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Zucker, assuming he gets back to 65pt level (which I think would be a safe bet), is absolutely the best we're getting for a 32 year old, temperamental winger. I'm still putting Zucker with Sid and Jake, so it doesn't really fix Geno's wing, but the combination of Jake-Sid-Zucker would absolutely decimate the NHL.

As far as the Kap+1st return; it's just whatever you value at the moment. A Kap+1st return gives us much more cap flexibility and sets us up to be better down the road. Zucker is a guy who steps in immediately and has a significant impact, but he's also young enough to be around (and at a high level) well after Geno and Letang's deals are up in three years.

The Kap+1st type of return doesn't do a ton for us though because Skinner's off the table, Panarin doesn't want to play/live in a city like Pittsburgh, and Duchene is a center first and foremost.
I wouldn't be mad with Zucker as the return, but they could use that $5.5M to go towards a Zucc, Gus, etc. that would give them similar if not better results to Zucker + have a Kapanen on a cheap contract for several more years + that 1st that could help down the line. To me, that's a no brainer. Whether a team is offering that up or whether any of the FA wingers would sign with the Pens are the questions I have.

Although, I'm not as sold on Zucker being a 60+ winger as you appear to be, so...
 
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BrokenStick

Registered User
Feb 8, 2004
768
225
Ellwood City, PA
I'm done now. I am giving Penguin fans a bad look with unrealistic trades.

Your trade ideas are off the wall and unrealistic, sometimes to the point of being silly, but at least you make suggestions of trade targets, which is honestly a refreshing change from just repeating "X player has to go" and "addition by subtraction" ad nauseum.
 
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ZeroPucksGiven

Registered User
Feb 28, 2017
6,338
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Would that big + coming back be enough to unload with JJ for as Andy99 said Mantha or AA?

I wanted AA 2 years ago because he could essentially replace Hags and at a cheaper price

The trade should have been Scott Wilson, plus a pick for Sheahan and AA
 

Turin

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
21,890
25,281
I wanted AA 2 years ago because he could essentially replace Hags and at a cheaper price

The trade should have been Scott Wilson, plus a pick for Sheahan and AA

Just because a player is fast doesn’t mean they do the same things. Athanasiou is not even close to Hags defensively and physically.
 
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