Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Rainbow's End down That Highway Where Ocean Breezes Blow

[Riptide]

I wouldn’t be making lineups without Hagelin-Malkin-Hornqvist for right now. It seems like a crazy line but it’s really working as a 2-way line. Time will tell though.

It works solely due to Malkin playing lights out. Even in the game yesterday, if he doesn't play beast mode, that line is very average. I also do not want to rely to much on a single game... but him and Guentzel were the only two centers with a zone start over 25%.

First numbers from yesterday. Send group from the last 6 games.
Sheahan: 0% (SAT: 61.9%). 20.37%, SAT: 47.69%
Crosby: 25% (SAT: 64.5%). 41.18%, SAT: 62.98%
Malkin: 54.5% (SAT: 40.74%). 48.21%, SAT: 47.17%
Guentzel: 100% (SAT: 75%). 69.7%, SAT: 53.79%

We need another center. It should be pretty clear looking at the above, that Guentzel cannot hack it as the 3C. People spent the first 3 months of the season bitching about an "increased" workload with "harder" starts for Crosby and Malkin... well now they're getting it. At least when Rowney was healthy, he could start 70% of his shifts in the DZ and finish almost break even in SAT. And while the line looked meh, at least it allowed Crosby and Malkin to start a very high percentage of their shifts in the OZ (71: 71.2%, 87: 62.1%) - which is what we want. Even just a Rowney caliber C would resolve this.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Depends on if FLA wants to cut more salary.

I don't buy the thought that Florida would trade Bjugstad to cut salary. I think the idea of Florida cutting significantly more salary is just wishful thinking. They might trade him if they want to rebuild, but I don't think they'll move him to "cut salary".

 

[NMK11]

If were trading Sheary, a 25 yo on a good contract with cost-controlled years left who scores up and down the lineup, its not going to be for a rental 4C. Especially if we have to add a pick. Sheary+a pick either gets a good rental 3C or a decent 3C/good 4C with at least a year or two left.

 

[Riptide]

Interesting thought, maybe the Penguins could get Martin with salary retained and he could play on the 2nd pair with Schultz. Martin is the exact kind of player I was thinking about, it's just a question of how much gas he has left.

He's played 3 games this year. The last of which was Dec 2nd for less than 13 minutes. The one before was Oct 7th. Unless there's some backup move there if Martin falters... that's an expensive gamble based on very little info. It could be amazing... but that's the sample size - 3 games.

 

[Riptide]

I don't see either of those teams moving Pageau or Bjugstad for Sheary. Flip the scenario, if you had Bjugstad, would you trade him for Sheary?

Pageau doesn't make sense from Ottawa's perspective unless we're adding significantly, to the point that I doubt JR spends much time there. Bjugstad however might. He's being played as a winger, and his salary only goes up over the next 3 years (~14.5m owed), in addition to him making almost 4m this year. It's very possible that Sheary ++ could get something done there - if only to ease FLA's budget.

Interesting thought if the Penguins move out Cole and also manage to trade Hunwick. Having Maatta-Demers as the 2nd pair and Oleksiak-Schultz as the 3rd pair looks pretty attractive. I also think Arizona would be willing to retain salary to get a better return on him.

I think overall he would be too expensive for us to acquire. And with our top 4 already costing 20m, I'm not really in a rush to go acquire another 4m+ D who's not a PMD.

 

[Riptide]

I don't buy the thought that Florida would trade Bjugstad to cut salary. I think the idea of Florida cutting significantly more salary is just wishful thinking. They might trade him if they want to rebuild, but I don't think they'll move him to "cut salary".

Do you remember how badly they got hosed in the Demers trade just to save 225k this year, and 350k next year? Sure there's some long term savings past that - 7.2m - well less as they retained 12.5%, so now only ~6.1m, as he had 2 years left beyond next season... but FLA bent over and took it when they moved him, and it wasn't pretty.

 

[PensandCaps]

Sheary is on pace for less than 30 points, playing with Sid alot. And is a defensive trainwreck.

Doubt he has trade value. He has more value us as a depth scorer for us on the 4th line or 3rd line.

 

[PensandCaps]

Do you remember how badly they got hosed in the Demers trade just to save 225k this year, and 350k next year? Sure there's some long term savings past that - 7.2m - well less as they retained 12.5%, so now only ~6.1m, as he had 2 years left beyond next season... but FLA bent over and took it when they moved him, and it wasn't pretty.

Also they GAVE two top six Wingers away for NOTHING!!!!

Smith and Marchessault.

 

[Andy99]

It works solely due to Malkin playing lights out. Even in the game yesterday, if he doesn't play beast mode, that line is very average. I also do not want to rely to much on a single game... but him and Guentzel were the only two centers with a zone start over 25%.

First numbers from yesterday. Send group from the last 6 games.
Sheahan: 0% (SAT: 61.9%). 20.37%, SAT: 47.69%
Crosby: 25% (SAT: 64.5%). 41.18%, SAT: 62.98%
Malkin: 54.5% (SAT: 40.74%). 48.21%, SAT: 47.17%
Guentzel: 100% (SAT: 75%). 69.7%, SAT: 53.79%

We need another center. It should be pretty clear looking at the above, that Guentzel cannot hack it as the 3C. People spent the first 3 months of the season *****ing about an "increased" workload with "harder" starts for Crosby and Malkin... well now they're getting it. At least when Rowney was healthy, he could start 70% of his shifts in the DZ and finish almost break even in SAT. And while the line looked meh, at least it allowed Crosby and Malkin to start a very high percentage of their shifts in the OZ (71: 71.2%, 87: 62.1%) - which is what we want. Even just a Rowney caliber C would resolve this.

This is really true. I'll also note that Sully has put that Ed Sheeran line out at times against the opposition's best line and if Geno gets shut down or is having a tough time, the line is very mediocre and that was the case last night. Also, Jake at 3C is returning my biggest peeve--double shifting of Sid and Geno. Don't like it at their age with how much they've played...

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I'd prefer to keep Rust, but I wonder what a package of Rust+Sheary could get you.

 

[PensandCaps]

I'd prefer to keep Rust, but I wonder what a package of Rust+Sheary could get you.

Not Rusty

 

[Riptide]

This is really true. I'll also note that Sully has put that Ed Sheeran line out at times against the opposition's best line and if Geno gets shut down or is having a tough time, the line is very mediocre and that was the case last night. Also, Jake at 3C is returning my biggest peeve--double shifting of Sid and Geno. Don't like it at their age with how much they've played...

Guentzel wasn't even cemented at center... there were frequently shifts where him and Kessel where out there with Sheahan or Crosby. Honestly, if it wasn't for how Simon and Sprong have played, I think this would have been over long ago and McKegg would have been called up. But those two are playing well, and I do not think that Sullivan or Rutherford want to change things right now, seeing how this is the best this team has looked (play style wise) all season. So instead we shelter the crap out of our "3C", and ride the f*** out of and depend like hell on our "4C" to do all the work and play all the minutes.

I mean really... when was the last time you looked at the stats for a game, and saw that someone had a 0% zone start stat, had a 61% SAT percentage and played ~15 minutes?

 

[Ryder71]

I'd prefer to keep Rust, but I wonder what a package of Rust+Sheary could get you.

If Sprong is able to stick here that might be an option in moving Rust. Not that I'm clamoring for it, but it would depend on who we'd target. I would think Sheary and Rust would garner a pretty solid return. The thing I'd be most concerned about however is that's a lot of speed to move out on wing. Now, say you bring in a guy like Kane, then the speed component to such a deal isn't a issue. Although if we're sending out a significant package, ideally we need to address 3C as well as wing. And that would likely require another asset.

 

[canadianguy77]

Going to need to hold on to Rust if Hornqvist is on his way out. Those are the only two guys we have who will consistently drive to the net and play all-out every game.

 

[Ryder71]

Going to need to hold on to Rust if Hornqvist is on his way out. Those are the only two guys we have who will consistently drive to the net and play all-out every game.

I was specifically looking at this season but you bring up a good point moving forward.

 

[Peat]

The Penguins aren't going to sell anyone. If anyone is traded off the roster it will be for a 3C and/or for cap space for a 3C.

We have 8 dmen and 14 forwards on the roster. The only waiver exempt players there are Guentzel, Sprong and Simon. How do you bring the roster back down to size?

Jakes been good at 3C

He has no points in 5 games there despite insanely high O zone starts. His line has scored 1 goal.

I mean, yeah, I've liked the way its looked at times, but when you come to brass tacks nothing's coming of it.

 

[Riptide]

We have 8 dmen and 14 forwards on the roster. The only waiver exempt players there are Guentzel, Sprong and Simon. How do you bring the roster back down to size?

Sprong going back down. Of those 3, I like Simon better as a player, even if Sprong looks to be the more 'high end' asset long term. He got his cup of tea, he played well (mostly) and was put in a position to succeed. Now go back, keep working on your defensive game (cough so Smith doesn't walk in from the point cough), and wait for your next chance. We'd have more decisions to make when Rust is back, but zero issues putting that off for now.

On a separate note, we're also running out of time for Simon before he will no longer be waiver eligible. Sprong will be a few years off... but am very certain that Simon's eligibility ends before DS's does. Maybe it's next year, I'm not sure (it's been a while since I've looked at that).

He has no points in 5 games there despite insanely high O zone starts. His line has scored 1 goal.

I mean, yeah, I've liked the way its looked at times, but when you come to brass tacks nothing's coming of it.

He's not even getting all that many minutes. He had 3 minutes less of icetime at ES then Sheahan did, and 1-2 minutes less overall with the special teams. What's worse though is that having Guentzel as the 3C, is forcing Crosby and Malkin out of the offensive zone in order to shelter Guentzel. That can't be happening. I honestly do not care who the #3C is... unless that line is so productive (HBK good), you cannot be pulling OZ starts from Crosby and Malkin to shelter the 3rd line. One can think what they want of Sheahan... but he had 0 offensive zone starts last game, and still finished with 62% SAT (+5). Guentzel for comparison sake was 75% SAT (+6), with 100% zone starts.

 

[PensandCaps]

Sprong ain't going back down.

Just sit Reaves, insert Rust on L4.


Sprong does not need to work on his defensive game.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The thought of sending Sprong down to "continue to work on his defense game" is even more stupid than keeping him in the AHL because he's "bad defensively". What games are people watching? Sprong has been about as effective as you could possibly want him to be defensively.

 

[Riptide]

Sprong ain't going back down.

Just sit Reaves, insert Rust on L4.

Sprong does not need to work on his defensive game.

You're talking lineup. We were talking roster. We're at 23 players with Rust on IR. For Rust to come off IR, we need to trade someone or send them to the minors as we cannot have 24 players on the roster.

Reaves will not be sitting anytime soon for Rust or Sprong or anyone else.

 

[PensPlz]

I'd prefer to keep Rust, but I wonder what a package of Rust+Sheary could get you.

Maybe a good start at Landeskog? He'd be a solid replacement for Hornqvist. Cheaper. Younger.

 

[Shaffer]

You're talking lineup. We were talking roster. We're at 23 players with Rust on IR. For Rust to come off IR, we need to trade someone or send them to the minors as we cannot have 24 players on the roster.

Reaves will not be sitting anytime soon for Rust or Sprong or anyone else.

Rowney is on IR, too. We have 12 healthy fowards, 2 on IR, 8 healthy defensemen, and 3 goalies.

Waving Rowney makes sense.

 

[Ryder71]

Bjugstad or Pageau would be ideal targets.

Probably both start with Sheary.

If FLA is trying to cut salary then Rust would make sense also. Maybe Rust or Sheary plus GUS get's a conversation going.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

You're talking lineup. We were talking roster. We're at 23 players with Rust on IR. For Rust to come off IR, we need to trade someone or send them to the minors as we cannot have 24 players on the roster.

Reaves will not be sitting anytime soon for Rust or Sprong or anyone else.

Step 1 should be waiving Rowney, but if Reaves having to play blocks much better players then they’ve got a problem.

Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Hornqvist, Sheary, Sheahan, Sprong, Simon, Rust, Hagelin, Guentzel, Kuhnhackl, Reaves. 13
Letang, Schultz, Maatta, Dumoulin, Oleksiak, Hunwick, Ruhwedel, Cole. 8
Murray, Jarry. 2

That’s 23 and I assume that Cole will be traded at some point.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The rosters also get expanded after the trade deadline, they can have a 24 man roster after the trade deadline. That's what I expect them to do, I think they'll have Rowney, Kuhnhackl, either Sheary or Simon, Ruhwedel and Hunwick as healthy scratches after the deadline. I expect them to add a 3C and a rental defensemen while only subtracting Cole off the roster.