Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster building: " PPG with a clock in its wall|Tic Toc....! We there yet?"

[PensandCaps]

KD carried them the last two times and won MVP. They win a few playoff games without him and the media is all over him. We went the whole playoffs and won a Championship without Letang and Pittsburgh media says nothing and everybody acts like he's untradeable. I've called this double standard out many times. Just imagine if we won a Super Bowl without Ben, Bell, or AB they would never hear the end of it.

Because KD is a no good snake.

He took the easy way out and joined a 73 win team. 73 wins...without him. The best record ever. And he joined That team.

Warriors would win the title without KD the last two years. As they have 4 ALL NBA players out of 5 starting posistions without KD.

These two comparisons are not nearly the same. At all.

 

[Lust for Life]

I suspect I'm not the first to say this but, apart from dream returns, I don't really want to take back cap for Kessel and Maatta. I want futures, as much futures as possible, to give us trade currency for the dream additions from struggling teams and the hope of getting ridiculously successful on a pick/prospect. We don't need to add dmen after moving Maatta; the free agent market for wings is strong enough that I don't see the need to trade for one.

Honestly, my dream return for Kessel and Maatta (and Hornqvist too) are deals with no cap back. Load up on picks and go from there.

 

[Extra Texture]

Kessell + Maatta

and


Zucker + dumba?

They are definitely looking to get younger (so they wouldnt want Phil from us) and jettison some of the horses that have fallen short for them the last few years. I dont think they've ever part with Dumba AND Zucker for anything short of a massive payoff, but what about

****let me clarify, I loathe the idea of moving Bjugstad right now***

Bjugstad (-4.1M for 2 more years)
Olli Maatta (-4.08M for 3 more years)
Tristan Jarry (RFA) + an addition pick OR Zach Aston Reese (RFA)

for

Jason Zucker (+5.5M for 4 more years)
Jared Spurgeon (+5.18M for 1 more year)

Minny gets younger overall, and gets another C under 30 that's actually good. We get a solid puckmover, albeit one already over 30. And Zucker, who just seems like the next Nino-like guy primed to explode once he leaves that offensive black hole.

At this point, we would be up one winger and defender, and at about 81M in cap (and Teddy, Petts, ZAR if he stays. Naturally, we'd try to jettison one of MFJJ or Gudbranson to save another 4M to get the RFAs secure. Then there's always the possibility of dealing Phil to Nashville, or Phil to AZ (might get some offensive talent back in this one....Galchenyuk and Crouse, Arizona would be insane to do that right?) while getting back a 3C to slot back in.

Again, this is an extreme scenario. The best idea would be keeping Bjug exactly where he is, and working the roster in other ways. But for sure, if they're actually interested in what we have to trade, some of Minny's names would be very enticing. I just doubt they'd be willing to get older on their roster at this point.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I suspect I'm not the first to say this but, apart from dream returns, I don't really want to take back cap for Kessel and Maatta. I want futures, as much futures as possible, to give us trade currency for the dream additions from struggling teams and the hope of getting ridiculously successful on a pick/prospect. We don't need to add dmen after moving Maatta; the free agent market for wings is strong enough that I don't see the need to trade for one.

Don't count on that happening. JR is going free agent hunting with any money saved from trades this offseason.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Bjugstad (-4.1M for 2 more years)
Olli Maatta (-4.08M for 3 more years)
Tristan Jarry (RFA) + an addition pick OR Zach Aston Reese (RFA)

for

Jason Zucker (+5.5M for 4 more years)
Jared Spurgeon (+5.18M for 1 more year)

Are you at least taking Fenton out to dinner before this deal? Because this is a serious yikes of a proposal.

 

[Riptide]

Don't count on that happening. JR is going free agent hunting with any money saved from trades this offseason.

Yep. Any cap space that Rutherford frees up will almost certainly be spent on FAs. Maybe not all of it... but most of it.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I'm of the opinion maybe, just maybe, Phil would be less enigmatic and frustrating if he actually DID take a game or two off to reset. Instead of taking a game or two off while actually playing...

Sure, utopia would be awesome. But the bottom line is Phil does not sit out and he does not play balls to the wall every shift. Hell, if he did do everything the fans wanted him to do, or even Sullivan for that matter, we would be in FAR GREATER cap hell than we are in right now. And we would still have the same number of Cups, imo. Value-wise, Phil is still a bargain because we proved we can win with him.

Besides, instead of sitting out, every time he is dressed there is a chance he will snipe one. And scoring goals is a direct way to win hockey games.

I could care less if Sullivan, JR or Guerin are tired of having Phil on the roster. I do care if the players are now tired of Phil. That matters. But there is almost no chance of replacing his production.

As far as Malkin-Kessel goes, I am not convinced they cannot play together and be successful. The left winger on that line is important, for sure. That said, Phil has value even on the third line. Sure he wants to play in the top six but when you win everybody is happy regardless. Just let Phil be Phil.

And, if the argument is we need to trade Phil to fix the D or find someone to play with Malkin, well we have 7 NHL defensemen under contract. Trading Phil to land another defenseman is like trying to fix a leaky pipe with gum. We should trade some of our defensemen to fix the defense. Change of scenery deals happen all the time. Not all trades have to be D for F or F for D. As for the Malkin winger, Hornqvist is the perfect candidate to be moved so that we can have the money to find Malkin a winger. For their level of production and cap hit, Kessel is more valuable to us than Horny (even if both rely heavily on the PP for points). AND, Hornqvist's reputation is completely intact so we can get something interesting in return, even futures. Kessel's rep means we will lose any deal, just like Toronto lost (badly) when they shipped him to us).

Hell, with Horny scoring goals in the worlds right now, we might even be able to get a late 1st rounder for him!

He actually does this thing called "trying" and plays A 200ft game.

Weird concept for Kessel...

This is pretty disrespectful towards Kessel. He has PROVEN he can be an impact player when it matters the most. Did anybody see Radulov towards the tail end of the St. Louis series?

Kessel essentially was the league playoff MVP in 2016...if he were anybody else they would have easily given it to him. But everybody hates Phil, so he lost to Sid, the golden boy.

Phil is to hockey what CM Punk was to the WWE. Sid is Brock Lesnar.

 

[Andy99]

Don't count on that happening. JR is going free agent hunting with any money saved from trades this offseason.

Given his FA signings the past two years, I’m expecting McQuaid and Boyle/Simmonds/Ferland for 6-year terms and an overpayment on AAV...

 

[Pancakes]

Yep. Any cap space that Rutherford frees up will almost certainly be spent on FAs. Maybe not all of it... but most of it.

And that scares me. JR has done well in trades, but his free agent signings are a disaster.

 

[iFishyHD]

Kessel to Arizona for Connaughton (buried in the AHL is 300k, helps Arizona a lot as a budget team)+2019 First (14OA) + a 2nd/3rd

Maatta to Vancouver for Virtanen

Johnson + ZAR + Pick(s) (I would imagine it may take a future first or second if we're not giving picks up this year) for Martinez

Schultz for Hoffman (Penguins likely add a conditional pick on the condition if Hoffman resigns here)

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
UFA-Malkin-Hoffman
McCann-Bjustad-Rust
Simon-Blueger (950k)-Virtanen
Johnson (900k)

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson (2.25M)-Martinez
Riikola (950k)-Gudbranson
Prow/Trotman/Ruhwedel (800k)

Murr/DeSmith

Leaves you 6M in cap space for a FA, I am not a big Ferland guy, but I think he would fit in a line with Malkin and Hoffman. Gain some picks, lose some picks, stay competitive. Target BPA with the 14th OA.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Maatta for Virtanen is an idea I like on paper, I'm just not sure whether Vancouver would do that deal. They're rumored to want some veteran help on defense, since Edler is likely walking as a UFA (plus they have Stecher and Tanev on RD and only Hutton on LD), so there's a logical match there. I think they may be trying for better than a Maatta level addition on LD though, I think they may be going for a Gardiner caliber player or higher.

I'd make that deal if they'd do it, though. ZAR-Blueger-Virtanen is a really solid 4th line on paper and Virtanen provides some needed speed on that line. There's also some potential upside with acquiring Virtanen, since he'll be only 23 to start next season.

 

[Peat]

Don't count on that happening. JR is going free agent hunting with any money saved from trades this offseason.

Don't see how that contradicts what I said?

 

[Extra Texture]

Are you at least taking Fenton out to dinner before this deal? Because this is a serious yikes of a proposal.

Why do you think I posted it here and not on the trade board?

No, but seriously, the value for them isnt great, and for two major pieces we'd obviously have to include more in the way of futures or current talent, but 1. I heard they were kinda done with Zucker and ready to move on Spurgeon 2. their fans were all trying to loop Bjugstad into every deal (makes sense, local kid who is looking like he's rounding into his potential now that he;s out of Florida). The Nino and Granlund deals made me think despite age they're sick of the same cast and want to try something new, but looking at that roster if they're hoping to grow a contender in the next few years, they're going to need someone to grow and develop at C, even as they're financially hamstrung with the Suter/Parise tandem.

I guess if they are looking to move those two parts, that is a "one stop shop" for the Pens in terms of a major deal. It would have to include assets garnered from other trades, and we would have to clear the decks on the blueline before hand, but I think they make a whole lot of sense as a trade partner. They could probably get alot more out of Zucker and Spurgeon with two independent trades

The other outlandish scenario that I wouldnt mind would be

1. this much talked about (on HF) Kessel for Ellis idea
2. A smaller deal around Bjug+ for Zucker
3. Clear salary from the OM/Guds/JJ nexus on the blueline
4. dip into the UFA market for 3C. Someone on the second tier, so we can actually fit them in financially. Thinking like a Filppula or MoJo level player here. I'd love it to be Brock Nelson, but I assume he's probably getting around 6-7M AAV somewhere this summer

Id be reluctant to open the 3C box again so recently after we closed it, and obviously we're not likely to see anywhere near the scale of these changes, but if Nashville and Minny are looking to turn their fortunes around, and are willing to dangle significant talent, this might be the summer to strike.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Don’t really see why Vancouver would make sense for Maatta. They have LD.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

At no point in 15/16 or 16/17 did he ever look as bad as he did this season.

He played the same way, the difference was how he was used. Play him with the players he needs and he will continue to be a huge net positive - in spite of everything working against him, Kessel was 6th among RWs in P/60 last year: http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?rep...ter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=pointsPer60Minutes.

Or...scapegoat him for being a liability while playing with a plodding LW who can't insulate his defensive issues and blueliners who can't get out of their own end. Just remember that Malkin's effectiveness took a similar dip under the same circumstances.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Don’t really see why Vancouver would make sense for Maatta. They have LD.

They only have Hutton as a veteran LD under contract right now. Edler is unsigned as of right now and they're getting rid of Pouliot.

They may want a veteran RD to play on the bottom pair with Hughes to open next year, but there is also a spot on the 2nd pair LD. I find it funny that they traded Gudbranson though, he would be a logical fit on the bottom pair with Hughes.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

We need to remove ourselves from the idea Hornqvist is a top-6 winger. Geno needs more than Hornqvist brings, while Sid and Horny can't coexist for more than a couple shifts at a time. He's a third liner.

Also, Minnesota's got a lot of guys that make sense for us to target, but we're going to have to talk about assets other than Phil. They don't want Phil, I'm almost certain of it--another high price, aging player to go with the likes of Parise, Staal, and Suter.

We're going to move Kessel, and we'll be better for it in the long run imo, but we're not going to directly get back guys who immediately step in and make an impact. We're going to have to move Kessel for something like a mid-1st + great prospect, then flip one of the two 1sts as part of a package to land someone like a Spurgeon, or a forward for Geno.

 

[iFishyHD]

They only have Hutton as a veteran LD under contract right now. Edler is unsigned as of right now and they're getting rid of Pouliot.

They may want a veteran RD to play on the bottom pair with Hughes to open next year, but there is also a spot on the 2nd pair LD. I find it funny that they traded Gudbranson though, he would be a logical fit on the bottom pair with Hughes.

I could see them offering Tyler Myers stupid money in free agency.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I could see them offering Tyler Myers stupid money in free agency.

I could see them trading Tanev and throwing a ton of money at both Myers and Karlsson/Stralman. They have the opportunity to do some big things this off-season and they seem interested in adding defensemen.

 

[iFishyHD]

From Rossis article yesterday, seems like the Penguins want to have two firsts in this draft, and keep both of them. I could see them ditching our 2020 first, and try to accelerate things by a year. Problem with that is you likely are waiting until after the first day of the draft to do most of your trading, and July 1st 2019 is a long way from June whatever 2020, so your going to get less value out of it, and it will likely be later then our pick this year.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

They only have Hutton as a veteran LD under contract right now. Edler is unsigned as of right now and they're getting rid of Pouliot.

They may want a veteran RD to play on the bottom pair with Hughes to open next year, but there is also a spot on the 2nd pair LD. I find it funny that they traded Gudbranson though, he would be a logical fit on the bottom pair with Hughes.

They’re gonna re-sign Edler and Hughes will get significant minutes next year. Hutton played well for them last year. Juolevi is their top prospect not in the NHL and will be expected to at least push for time.

Where does Maatta fit in there? Any need is on the right side and even that isn’t terribly pressing. Their top 4 is solid.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They’re gonna re-sign Edler and Hughes will get significant minutes next year. Hutton played very well for them last year. Juolevi is their top prospect not in the NHL and will be expected to at least push for time.

Where does Maatta fit in there?

Edler isn't re-signed, and if it was such a guarantee that he would re-sign, he would have been signed by now. Juolevi only played in 18 AHL games last year before getting injured for the year, he's almost definitely spending most of next year in the AHL. So again, there is a spot on the 2nd pair LD spot.

 

[iFishyHD]

I could see them trading Tanev and throwing a ton of money at both Myers and Karlsson/Stralman. They have the opportunity to do some big things this off-season and they seem interested in adding defensemen.

How far has Juolevi's stock dropped? Maatta+2nd might've been enticing for him if we had one.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Edler isn't re-signed, and if it was such a guarantee that he would re-sign, he would have been signed by now. Juolevi only played in 18 AHL games last year before getting injured for the year, he's almost definitely spending most of next year in the AHL. So again, there is a spot on the 2nd pair LD spot.

? Edler is going nowhere. He didn’t waive his NTC because he doesn’t want to play anywhere else.

He or Hughes will be their second pair LD.

 

[Empoleon8771]

How far has Juolevi's stock dropped? Maatta+2nd might've been enticing for him if we had one.

I'm not sure with him, he missed a ton of time due to injury last year.

? Edler is going nowhere. He didn’t waive his NTC because he doesn’t want to play anywhere else.

He or Hughes will be their second pair LD.

Yet he's still unsigned right now. Do you remember why his name was in trade rumors at the deadline? Because Vancouver was apparently unwilling to match the term/clauses that Edler wanted in his next deal. Until he's actually signed, he shouldn't be assumed to be back. If Vancouver won't give him the term and NMC that he probably wants, he'll probably sign somewhere else with a team that will give him that. So there's a spot on the 2nd pair LD spot until he's re-signed, and Hughes will probably start on the 3rd pair.