Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster building: " PPG with a clock in its wall|Tic Toc....! We there yet?"

[Ugene Magic]

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Previous threads:
Salary Cap: - Salary Cap + Roster building: "All of your Pittsburgh born players belong to us"
Salary Cap: - Salary Cap + Roster building: "I need a White Russian"
Salary Cap: - Salary Cap + Roster Building: Malkin Avengers - EndGame
Salary Cap: - Salary cap+roster building: To Malkin or not to Malkin?

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[Ugene Magic]

Last few posts from previous thread.

Ian Cole would still be a problem here if he was making 4+ mil.

The issue is the comparable is Jack Johnson here so anyone would be better

If the D was say...

Dumoulin-Letang
Gardiner-Spurgeon
Pettersson-Ruhwedel

I think that window is wide open.

Absolutely, but that's a lot of moving parts (four blueliners out, two significant additions) and we still don't have a good make up for Geno's line with Phil (likely) leaving this summer. Again, I don't think you can discount the JR factor either. "Pushback", "best blueline he's ever had here", focus on bigger, heavy guys that don't have the ability to play a fast game... That's a huge factor and one that can't be overlooked simply because the rest of the hockey world--down to message board dummies like us--can see the approach this team has taken the last two years is akin to sprinting in the opposite direction from the rest of the league, namely Cup chasing teams.

I think Spurgeon can be Schultz and we’d be fine.

This is really what it boils down to. It doesn't matter if we get Panarin this summer if JJ is still our #3 and ZAR is still put in a scoring line role. We can't get a reasonable handle on Geno or Phil until we address the elephants in the room that the org don't seem to think are a big problem. I fear the org's going to make Phil a scapegoat, replace him with another scoring winger, then wonder why the 2nd line is still hemmed in their own end with ZAR trusted to chase down pucks for them on the forecheck and Johnson trusted to get them the puck in transition. Real head scratcher there.

Ideally we'd let Pettersson gestate awhile longer on the bottom pairing, but it's not like playing with Guds is an easy assignment. Playing with Schultz on the 2nd pairing may actually be less demanding on him, and Riikola ought to get a reasonable shot on the big cub next season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

31 Thoughts: Intrigue around NHL Draft starting to take shape - Sportsnet.ca

A couple of executives who said there was definitely something to the Evgeni Malkin trade rumours think those will die down. “If their goal was to rattle his cage,” one said, “he got the message.” When Malkin arrived at the world championships, the future Hall-of-Famer told reporter Simon Galkevich, “I had a bad season…Sometimes criticism is justified. This time it’s probably justified.” Malkin also controls his future.

Looks like these rumors are going to go away soon

 

[Turin]

31 Thoughts: Intrigue around NHL Draft starting to take shape - Sportsnet.ca



Looks like these rumors are going to go away soon

Good.

Bye Phil, Maatta and hopefully but probably not JJ.

 

[Gurglesons]

Good.

Bye Phil, Maatta and hopefully but probably not JJ.

Would be nice

 

[Ugene Magic]

Good.

Bye Phil, Maatta and hopefully but probably not JJ.

I still hope he stays, both of them. (Geno/Phil) It's not easy to get elite players as is.

 

[Turin]

I still hope he stays, both of them. (Geno/Phil) It's not easy to get elite players as is.

I only want to keep him if he’s open to a different role. Malkin had his best year since 2012 away from him, not a coincidence.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I think it was @Jacob who said to start drafting high-end/risk/reward centers. Yes, I like that idea.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

This is really what it boils down to. It doesn't matter if we get Panarin this summer if JJ is still our #3 and ZAR is still put in a scoring line role. We can't get a reasonable handle on Geno or Phil until we address the elephants in the room that the org don't seem to think are a big problem. I fear the org's going to make Phil a scapegoat, replace him with another scoring winger, then wonder why the 2nd line is still hemmed in their own end with ZAR trusted to chase down pucks for them on the forecheck and Johnson trusted to get them the puck in transition. Real head scratcher there.

Ideally we'd let Pettersson gestate awhile longer on the bottom pairing, but it's not like playing with Guds is an easy assignment. Playing with Schultz on the 2nd pairing may actually be less demanding on him, and Riikola ought to get a reasonable shot on the big cub next season.

Phil is a problem, and a big one. Make no mistake about that. He may not be on the same level of JJ, Maatta or JR, but Phil is a problem. A point per game player doesn't get moved without something going awry. Phil's miserable at ES, like atrocious, and he makes his line (Geno in particular) much worse because of that. He scored 46pts at ES this season, all the while looking utterly disinterested and/or clueless without the puck on his stick. Without very strong production from the PP, I don't think anyone's really worried about moving on from Phil at all. He's very likely gone, and with good reason. I just hope JR doesn't take back a ton of cap in the trade, and can possibly nab a mid-1st rounder+prospect in return.

I'm not trying to argue that the blueline is anything but unforgivably bad, I'm just trying to shed light on the issue at Geno's wing. When Phil leaves, with all his warts and baggage, he's still taking a big chunk of production with him. Don't get me wrong, we should absolutely be moving on from Phil Kessel, but Geno isn't some spring chicken anymore and he's going to need a serious upgrade on his wing from the caliber of players we have to give him right now. It cannot be understated and can't be glossed over just how much help Geno's going to need. If we had McCann and Rust running with Sid as opposed to Jake, he's not approaching 100pts. Putting McCann, Rust, Hornqvist or Bjugstad with Geno is simply not enough, not even close.

I think our best bet for Petts is to play him on the bottom pairing with a guy like Riikola, who I also think has a good amount of room to grow into a solid, cheap bottom pairing guy in his own right.

This team may not be a dozen moves away, but the half-dozen it needs to make are significant changes that require an approach wholly unlike the one JR has taken to building this roster for the past two years.

 

[ownal]

Has anyone been following Jan Drozg? Everything I have seen makes me think he is ready for the NHL next year.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I still hope he stays, both of them. (Geno/Phil) It's not easy to get elite players as is.

I’d be shocked if Phil is back.

In terms of dead cap space that needs moved, Phil isn’t even in the concern list because cap hit vs production I’d take Phil all day. Phil is going to get moved because Sully is here and they don’t have a good assistant to be the voice of reason and manage relationships between Sully and the players.

We have too many players whose cap hit vs positive contribution to the team sucks or sucked last year before getting to Phil. Phil will be gone because of issues not related to his play but that will be the scapegoat reason once it happens.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I’d be shocked if Phil is back.

In terms of dead cap space that needs moved, Phil isn’t even in the concern list because cap hit vs production I’d take Phil all day. Phil is going to get moved because Sully is here and they don’t have a good assistant to be the voice of reason and manage relationships between Sully and the players.

We have too many players whose cap hit vs positive contribution to the team sucks or sucked last year before getting to Phil. Phil will be gone because of issues not related to his play but that will be the scapegoat reason once it happens.

Well... I hope cooler heads come around and really dig deep to keep him around. Fix mistakes by way of Maatta, Hornqvist and others.

 

[Andy99]

I’d be shocked if Phil is back.

In terms of dead cap space that needs moved, Phil isn’t even in the concern list because cap hit vs production I’d take Phil all day. Phil is going to get moved because Sully is here and they don’t have a good assistant to be the voice of reason and manage relationships between Sully and the players.

We have too many players whose cap hit vs positive contribution to the team sucks or sucked last year before getting to Phil. Phil will be gone because of issues not related to his play but that will be the scapegoat reason once it happens.

Agree...this is why I don’t trust the FO..because an assessment of the coaching staff needs to be done...I’m not opposed to moving Phil but my guess is he’s not the only one with problems with the coaching staff and yet it doesn’t appear JR’s going to consider any movement there unless Martin gets a job elsewhere...could be a mistake if there are issues there with other players

 

[iFishyHD]

I don't think we would be moving Phil if he could (or got a fair chance for 20+ games) play with Sid under Sully. Not that I didn't think it would be a question at this point this far into the Kessel experiment, but if he and Hornqvist can't play in the top 6, one has to go.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Speaking of Martin, it seems like he's out of the running for Buffalo's HC job.

 

[Turin]

I don't think we would be moving Phil if he could (or got a fair chance for 20+ games) play with Sid under Sully. Not that I didn't think it would be a question at this point this far into the Kessel experiment, but if he and Hornqvist can't play in the top 6, one has to go.

Horny can play anywhere in the lineup. Kessel apparently can only play on Malkin’s line or else he pouts, and Sid doesn’t want him more than he doesn’t want Hornqvist.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Agree...this is why I don’t trust the FO..because an assessment of the coaching staff needs to be done...I’m not opposed to moving Phil but my guess is he’s not the only one with problems with the coaching staff and yet it doesn’t appear JR’s going to consider any movement there unless Martin gets a job elsewhere...could be a mistake if there are issues there with other players

If Phil requires a handler in order to keep from going emotionally nuclear, isn't that a pretty big issue? I understand and appreciate that Sully's abrasive, authoritarian nature can be an issue, but Phil's always been a disposable asset. You try to get the most out of him for a few years before he wears out his welcome. We got back to back Cups before things crumbled, and they have crumbled, but that's pretty damn good.

I don't know, man. People seem to be pointing the finger anywhere and everywhere but at Phil. Replacing his production is a must, but people are acting like Phil is being driven out of town unreasonably and isn't laden with his own baggage. The guy played his way out of town with his inability/unwillingness to control his emotions and keep them from having a detrimental effect on his game, and the fact that he's not a good fit for any of our top three lines for numerous reasons.

 

[CallArnoldSlick]

Phil is a problem, and a big one. Make no mistake about that. He may not be on the same level of JJ, Maatta or JR, but Phil is a problem. A point per game player doesn't get moved without something going awry. Phil's miserable at ES, like atrocious, and he makes his line (Geno in particular) much worse because of that. He scored 46pts at ES this season, all the while looking utterly disinterested and/or clueless without the puck on his stick. Without very strong production from the PP, I don't think anyone's really worried about moving on from Phil at all. He's very likely gone, and with good reason. I just hope JR doesn't take back a ton of cap in the trade, and can possibly nab a mid-1st rounder+prospect in return.

I mean, 46 even strength points is 13th in the league among right wingers. It's a little low from what we'd want from Phil, but that's not atrocious (Vlad Tarasenko had the same). He was 5th a year ago with 50. He finished 7th and 10th his first two years in Pittsburgh. He's not atrocious at even strength. A big part of Phil/Malkin's problems this season were the anchors they played with on the blueline. Pairing an offensive-minded (defensively weak) winger with possession troubled defensemen is a bad recipe for success.

I'm not saying moving Phil wouldn't help this roster, depending on the return. I'm also not saying he is without his flaws. But I don't think he's as bad as some are making him out to be for a cap hit of $6.8 million. I'm certainly not convinced Pittsburgh is going to magically find a replacement winger for him that can remotely match his offensive production this upcoming season if he is moved.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I only want to keep him if he’s open to a different role. Malkin had his best year since 2012 away from him, not a coincidence.

So did Phil.

 

[CallArnoldSlick]

Pascal Dupuis is the only other Penguins' right winger in the Crosby/Malkin era to score 46 ES points or finish in the 10 ten in ES scoring at his position. He did it twice in 2011/12 and 2012/13.

Phil has done it each of his 4 years here. Good luck replacing it.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

If Phil requires a handler in order to keep from going emotionally nuclear, isn't that a pretty big issue? I understand and appreciate that Sully's abrasive, authoritarian nature can be an issue, but Phil's always been a disposable asset. You try to get the most out of him for a few years before he wears out his welcome. We got back to back Cups before things crumbled, and they have crumbled, but that's pretty damn good.

I don't know, man. People seem to be pointing the finger anywhere and everywhere but at Phil. Replacing his production is a must, but people are acting like Phil is being driven out of town unreasonably and isn't laden with his own baggage. The guy played his way out of town with his inability/unwillingness to control his emotions and keep them from having a detrimental effect on his game, and the fact that he's not a good fit for any of our top three lines for numerous reasons.

Phil needing a handler like Tocchet is one thing but this isn’t an isolated issue. There are legit problems with Sully and certain emotional players on the team needing mending with a coach that provides that bridge that Tocchet did.

The problem is Sully yelling has worn itself out. There is no translator between Sully’s yelling and the frustration of the players when shit isn’t going well.

 

[KIRK]

31 Thoughts: Intrigue around NHL Draft starting to take shape - Sportsnet.ca



Looks like these rumors are going to go away soon

Unless Geno has too much fun playing with Dadonov and defensemen who can move the puck and starts thinking (rightly in the case of this GM and coach) that the grass may be greener on the other side . . .

 

[KIRK]

Pascal Dupuis is the only other Penguins' right winger in the Crosby/Malkin era to score 46 ES points or finish in the 10 ten in ES scoring at his position. He did it twice in 2011/12 and 2012/13.

Phil has done it each of his 4 years here. Good luck replacing it.

James Neal would find this interesting.

 

[CallArnoldSlick]

NHL's Top 12 UFAs of 2019: Latest rumours, reports - Sportsnet.ca

Pens possibly interested in Tyler Myers? We'd have to move two of JJ/Maatta/Gudbranson or (hopefully not) Schultz.

 

[ownal]

Maatta/Johnson for Martinez.
Gudbranson/4th for Spurgeon.