Oh, I wasn't questioning the way it is with the organization and Maatta.
Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | No Hate
- Thread starter DegenX
- Start date
- Status
Oh, I wasn't questioning the way it is with the organization and Maatta.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I'll keep posting this because this is what matters. If GMs thought Johnson stunk, he wouldn't have made the WCoH team in 2016. If GMs thought Johnson stunk, he wouldn't have made the Olympic team in 2010. If GMs thought Johnson stunk, he wouldn't have made the WC team 4 times. If GMs thought Johnson stunk, he wouldn't have been playing top-4 minutes for the last decade. If GMs thought Johnson stunk, he wouldn't have gotten a 5 year deal for $3.25 million and a 7 year deal for $4ish million back in 2010.
Again, it does not matter if fans think he stinks, because fans aren't calling the shots. GMs in hockey have shown time and time again that their opinions of Jack Johnson aren't the same as fans opinions of Jack Johnson. Who makes the decisions? The people who think Johnson is better, that's what matters.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
- 34,361
- 28,419
Honestly guys I'm really not trying to be an ass but I just don't understand which Jack Johnson you've been watching all these years. He had like one good season in CBUS and one good season in LA. And he's bled goals his whole career. As a defenseman.
If he turns it around this year I'll more than happily eat a big ol plate of crow.
Wonder Years narrator: He didn't turn it around that year
Yes, but Daley wasn't good defensively in the way Schultz is. It's a different animal, and in the end Daley could've played with any number of partners.
JMFJ literally needs a babysitter.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
- 34,361
- 28,419
Great. Appeal to authority. That always turns out well.
Whatever. Guess we'll KEEP on waiting to see...
Whatever. Guess we'll KEEP on waiting to see...
Empoleon8771
Registered User
When the "authority" has shown a really clear trend, and the "authority" are the ones making the decisions, I don't really see what the problem here is. I'm not saying "Jeremy Roenick thinks Johnson is good, and since he played in the NHL, he's good". I'm saying that the guys making the roster decisions think Johnson is better, and that's what matters when it comes to his tradeability. That's not an "appeal to authority", that's using basic logic.
BladeRunner66
Two-Headed Jerk
- Oct 23, 2017
- 1,164
- 747
2016-17 23pts +23
JJ has had ups and downs, some related to personal crisis but 2016-17 is really near to where he is right now so i'll go with Empo on this one.
JJ + Letang may just end up being a great pair, all risks (
) being considered.Curious to see what happens.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
- 34,361
- 28,419
His 2 'good seasons' in LA, he put up 78 points . . . but only 37 points at ES in 162 games while being a combined -36.
His 2 'good seasons' in Columbus, he put up 73 points, but only 34 points at ES in 161 games while being a combined -20.
And those were his 'good seasons'.
2016-17 23pts +23
JJ has had ups and downs, some related to personal crisis but 2016-17 is really near to where he is right now so i'll go with Empo on this one.
JJ + Letang may just end up being a great pair, all risks (
Curious to see what happens.
Touche.
His 1 'good season', as in the only season EVER he wasn't a complete ES liability.
Of course, they insulated the **** out of him.
And he was a -3 in 5 games in the playoffs.
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 77,316
- 42,447
Maatta and Johnson should hold hands on their way the f*** out of Pittsburgh.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
- 34,361
- 28,419
GMs get caught up in weird obsessions and trends. They get caught watching just like everyone else does. JJ is a big guy with some decent mobility for his size who has put some OK seasons up, point-wise, in the past and was drafted really high. He can work some PK and PP time, as well.
There will always be suckers out there for a player like that. How is that even a controversial opinion? That's been going on since literally the league's inception. This time it was JR.
There will always be suckers out there for a player like that. How is that even a controversial opinion? That's been going on since literally the league's inception. This time it was JR.
BladeRunner66
Two-Headed Jerk
- Oct 23, 2017
- 1,164
- 747
The Penguins seem to have a way to defy logic when they pick up on players that seemed hopeless.
Remember when JR was going to introduce 'analytics' to the organization?
I guess that introduction doesn't apply to shiny toys who happen to be Sid's BFF.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
If you pretend that you're right and GMs are wrong, which is a pretty arrogant stance to take.
Look, this doesn't even have to do with whether you think Johnson is good or not. The point is that what you or I or any other fan individually think of Johnson doesn't mean jack ****, because fans have no say in roster decisions. The guys who make the roster decisions have shown a really clear trend on how they view Johnson, based on how he has been used, how he has been paid and what teams he has played for. You can look at those 3 and say that the Penguins could easily find a taker for Johnson if they wanted to, and have it be a completely fair claim to make.
He'd have to do even worse than what he has done so far for the Penguins to actually have a problem with being able to move him, because for as "bad" as Johnson has been over his career, he has been a top-4 staple for a decade, while playing on an Olympic team and multiple other national teams and making $50 million in contracts.
Here, I'll make a prediction right now that I'm 100% confident will be true. If Johnson is left exposed in the next expansion draft, Seattle will take him.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
- 34,361
- 28,419
They should have just called it "Selective Analytics Based On Current Narrative."
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
- 34,361
- 28,419
Geez, man. I'm not even really sure what you are on about at this point but whatever. You're right. GMs "like" Jack Johnson and he played in the Olympics that one time so he must be good.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Okay, so you're not actually reading what I'm saying. Glad we cleared that up. Maybe you should go back and read through what I was saying instead of just making a fly-by on the posts.
He was a top 4 staple in LA.
They traded him before, coincidentally, they started winning cups.
He was a top 4 staple in Columbus, though part of their process of becoming a more consistent playoff caliber team included limiting his minutes and how he was used and then scratching him.
He's been a top 4 staple for a decade. Absolutely.
He's never been a top 4 staple on a team with legit cup aspirations.
EDIT: I will grant you that JMFJ is less of a problem than Maatta. But honestly at this point the more appropriate description is 'a dog with different fleas'.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
- 34,361
- 28,419
I'm sorry. I missed the part where he played in the Olympics 8 years ago. I edited.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Gurglesons
Registered User
Not technically. Dumo and Letang play a ton of PK.
The bigger issue is Johnson is statistically our most limiting offensively.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
- 34,361
- 28,419
Good point.
Still not comfortable having both Maatta and Johnson on the same sheet of ice for big minutes. I mean... unless at least one of them is on the other team.
Gurglesons
Registered User
He has statistically been one of the worst D in the league every year but one.
Last edited:
Gurglesons
Registered User
- Status
