Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | No Hate

[mpp9]

they bring a premium, but usually in the form of future assets.

Use those assets in another trade. Having two 1sts, Rust and Maatta as luxury pieces should be enough to land you at least one or two key pieces to help address our weaknesses.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Wasn't Talbot stapled to Malkin's hip for way-too-long? With Feds? Hey... kinda what they're trying now!

Though I agree with what you're basically saying. Kind of the same player. I think people overrate the hell out of Rust's offensive game. It seems to come and go at random... mostly go.

he played about 30% of his time in 2009-2010 with one of Sid or Geno. It was about 20% in 2008-2009. It was very little before and after those two years.

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

For comparison, Rust played about half of his time with one of the two each of the last two seasons.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Use those assets in another trade. Having two 1sts, Rust and Maatta as luxury pieces should be enough to land you at least one or two key pieces to help address our weaknesses.

yeah, if things go right we might be able to get someone like Brassard for that.

 

[mpp9]

Just because you view Johnson as a bottom pair/scratch guy doesn't mean coaches and GMs do. I need to reiterate this point:



Johnson has been used like a top-4 defenseman his entire career, more or less. Even in a year where he was healthy scratched for the playoffs, he was still averaging over 19 minutes a night, which are top-4 minutes. He's really clearly not viewed as poorly among NHL executives as how fans do. Him being scratched for 5 games last year doesn't override how he has been used for the rest of his career. I know fans think Johnson sucks, but it's really clear that GMs and coaches in hockey don't agree. Johnson is putting up just as ineffective of advanced stats now as he did in 2010, and he was on Team USA for the Olympics in 2010.

I think he's an extremely flawed player. It seems like you need to play him top 4 minutes to get him involved in the game but insulate him at the same time. Very lucky for him Letang is playing lights out and Dumoulin can anchor his own pairing.

 

[BladeRunner66]

If Letang can insulate JJ and allow Dumoulin to take on some tough minutes on a separate pairing, there's really no reason for Maatta to be here anymore. He's not a top 4 D in that scenario and Oleksiak, Rik and Ruh can give you 10-15 minutes/night.

I don't think JJ is ready yet to jump up that much, i mean, let him adapt to a system against lesser opposition before... wait what? ...you wanna pair him with Letang?

Agree for Big Rig and future Rik though, Ruh? ...don't trust him yet, not sure i ever will so we keep Maatta for now, trade value being low and our D being... erh, low.

 

[KIRK]

Ahhhhhh, that's right. It was Dupuis they switched to the next year, not Talbot. I just remember a garbage line that was a huge waste of Malkin's talents that the coach and a lot of fans insisted was a good "fit" despite how it actually looked out on the ice most nights.

Odd. Reminds me of something.

Actually, they went into the year planning to put him with TK. They spent all preseason together. Looked good. Dupuis was slotted for Cooke-Staal. Then, on the eve of game 1, Bylsma decides to flip Dupuis and TK.

 

[KIRK]

I don’t think there’s anyone in WBS who’s a full time NHL D man right now but I don’t watch as closely as others ...Trotman and Prow could play some games on the third pairing but they’re still just borderline NHL players...

What is Maatta playing like right now?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think JJ is ready yet to jump up that much, i mean, let him adapt to a system against lesser opposition before... wait what? ...you wanna pair him with Letang?

Agree for Big Rig and future Rik though, Ruh? ...don't trust him yet, not sure i ever will so we keep Maatta for now, trade value being low and our D being... erh, low.

He has been playing the last 2 games with Letang and has had 2 really good games. He has already been playing with Letang and the results have been really good.

I think he's an extremely flawed player. It seems like you need to play him top 4 minutes to get him involved in the game but insulate him at the same time. Very lucky for him Letang is playing lights out and Dumoulin can anchor his own pairing.

Some defensemen are just like that, though. I'd say that Orpik was the same way when he was with the Penguins. Orpik had to be playing with a guy carrying the pair who could move the puck, but when he was playing top-4 minutes, he'd be very engaged with his physicality.

That's not really related to my point, though. I'm confident that they could trade Johnson really easily right now, because GMs view him much higher than fans do. I just don't think the Penguins would have any interest in trading him, nor should they. It doesn't even have to do with a hockey point of view, it's just a dick move to give a veteran a long term deal and then trade him 10 games into it.

 

[BladeRunner66]

He has been playing the last 2 games with Letang and has had 2 really good games. He has already been playing with Letang and the results have been really good.

Still sounds risky to me but then again, maybe he thrives playing risky? It just seems to me these 2 guys we're unlikely to complement each others to start with but i'd sure like it to be proven wrong here on a bigger sample size.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Still sounds risky to me but then again, maybe he thrives playing risky? It just seems to me these 2 guys we're unlikely to complement each others to start with but i'd sure like it to be proven wrong here on a bigger sample size.

No, Letang is just playing that well

If that pair works, it's pretty much solely due to Letang. Johnson will be able to provide some elements to that top pair, but he'd just be a passenger on that pair with a Norris caliber defenseman. It's the same kind of pair that Phaneuf-Letang would be. I wouldn't be worried about that pair, because the Penguins have had very successful top pairs in the past with worse defensemen than Johnson on them. Before Dumoulin, the Penguins most common top pairs since 2010 were Orpik-Letang, Scuderi-Letang and Niskanen-Letang.

 

[Ryder71]

Any update on Brassard?

 

[KIRK]

he played about 30% of his time in 2009-2010 with one of Sid or Geno. It was about 20% in 2008-2009. It was very little before and after those two years.

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

For comparison, Rust played about half of his time with one of the two each of the last two seasons.

You linked to 2010-2011.

Here's 2009-2010 for Geno:

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

Geno played 67 games. He was playing 20:51 per game. Figure 18:00 was at even strength.

SO, I'm figuring 1200 ES minutes, maybe 1250 ES minutes tops. Go with the higher number.

He played 4.10% of the time with Talbot and Fedotenko. That's 51.25 ES minutes TOTAL in 2009-2010. What's that? 5 games together? I say 5 instead of 4 because Geno took a lot of shifts with Sid.

He played 1.85% of the time with Talbot and Guerin. That's 23 ES minutes TOTAL. 2 games, I bet.

Everything else was under 1%. Cumulatively maybe 2-3% with Talbot and a rotating player, but that would've been line changes and random shifts. #3 on the list, I think, was Talbot with Sid and Geno, about 0.69%. That's 8 minutes.

SO, as full time line winger for Geno, to answer @BlindWillyMcHurt, Talbot played 7 games with Geno and either Fedotenko OR Guerin.

Adding in the other little shifts, and I'd estimate that Talbot played MAYBE 90 minutes total with Geno in 2009-2010 (including line changes and random shifts where they'd be out there with say Sid for a shift).

 

[KIRK]

No, Letang is just playing that well

If that pair works, it's pretty much solely due to Letang. Johnson will be able to provide some elements to that top pair, but he'd just be a passenger on that pair with a Norris caliber defenseman. It's the same kind of pair that Phaneuf-Letang would be. I wouldn't be worried about that pair, because the Penguins have had very successful top pairs in the past with worse defensemen than Johnson on them. Before Dumoulin, the Penguins most common top pairs since 2010 were Orpik-Letang, Scuderi-Letang and Niskanen-Letang.

It's very telling how much better Letang is right now (compared to last year) that he can successfully babysit a player like JMFJ.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean... honestly I just don't agree, Empo. I fully realize they would never trade the guy this far into his (really long) contract. But JJ just isn't this "who is he?" kind of player. He's stunk for a while. He'll continue to stink here.

Play him with Letang potentially? Wha... ?

 

[Turin]

Letang successfully babysat Daley for a while, but JJ just doesn’t have Daley’s positives either.

 

[KIRK]

I mean... honestly I just don't agree, Empo. I fully realize they would never trade the guy this far into his (really long) contract. But JJ just isn't this "who is he?" kind of player. He's stunk for a while. He'll continue to stink here.

Play him with Letang potentially? Wha... ?

They're playing him with Letang so that they can potentially have 2 pairs with a babysitter.

Letang babysists JMFJ.

Dumo babysits someone else.

 

[Coastal Kev]

View attachment 153243Here's some gold for y'all

That dude on the left almost looks like Sid

 

[BladeRunner66]

I mean... honestly I just don't agree, Empo. I fully realize they would never trade the guy this far into his (really long) contract. But JJ just isn't this "who is he?" kind of player. He's stunk for a while. He'll continue to stink here.

Play him with Letang potentially? Wha... ?

He's stunk for a short while, season prior to last one he was good and while it's a small sample size Empo isn't being Empoo on this one.

I sure hope JJ can get back to former self while being sheltered by Letang (...never thought i'd say that about Letang but hey, seems he matured).

 

[KIRK]

Letang successfully babysat Daley for a while, but JJ just doesn’t have Daley’s positives either.

Daley didn't need babysitting. Not like THAT. Nowhere NEAR like that.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

They're playing him with Letang so that they can potentially have 2 pairs with a babysitter.

Letang babysists JMFJ.

Dumo babysits someone else.

Wouldn't JJ have to like... play even MORE minutes, then?

That seems like a bad plan, boss.

 

[Coastal Kev]

No, Sprong should've been on Malkin's RW, with Rust or Hags on the LW.



THAT one shift is the LAST TIME Malkin and Sprong took a shift together, almost like Sully couldn't stand that it worked so he never tried it again (kind of like the split PP or the adjusted 1-2-2 for the Canada trip).

Unlike you, I won't say that Sprong would've succeeded. BUT, we are about to cast him off as a bust without the coach having legitimately tried him in the one spot where he was best suited to be.

I like your moxy, but I should point out Sprong is on the LEFT boards when he makes that pass. left. left...left

 

[KIRK]

He's stunk for a short while, season prior to last one he was good and while it's a small sample size Empo isn't being Empoo on this one.

I sure hope JJ can get back to former self while being sheltered by Letang (...never thought i'd say that about Letang but hey, seems he matured).

What former self? He's always been what he is now.

 

[Andy99]

What is Maatta playing like right now?

They could sit him now if they wanted to and play Riikola and Ruh, or send Riikola down and bring up Prow...but they haven’t...telling

 

[KIRK]

I like your moxy, but I should point out Sprong is on the LEFT boards when he makes that pass. left. left...left

1. Playing RW.

2. Giving up the right side of the ice because Geno is there.

 

[Turin]

Daley didn't need babysitting. Not like THAT. Nowhere NEAR like that.

Defensively he was not good, but no not like JJ