Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Killing time with pointless rumors

[WayneSid9987]

Kinda meh on it other than i believe Zucker would do awesome here and no JJ anymore is always gonna be a good thing.
The meh part comes in taking on Rask's contract and the inflexibilty remains, albeit an easier to stomach one with Rask here and JJ not.

The Phil of the last 2 seasons + JJ out for Zucker and Rask makes this team better 5on5 at the very least, imo.
Theres probably enough talent for the PP to not suffer too too much but they'd need to figure out their PP zone entries. Phil was a big part of those the last few seasons BUT we all know how bad he can be on the PP as well.
Theres enough talent here to figure it out without Phil tho 100%.

 

[KIRK]

Guentzel-Sid-Zucker
Rust-Geno-Zuccarello
Simon-Bjugstad-Mcann
ZAR-Blueger-whoever

That seems really solid IMO. Multiple wing options for Sid/Geno and without Kessel/Horny there are no forbidden combos which is huge.

Zucker, Rust, AND McCann on their off wings. Very Penguins like . . .

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yohe on Crowley show tonight thinks if they move Johnson that they keep rest of defense. Isn't quite as sure about forward however mentioned Hornqvist as possible candidate. Says what Jesse said that its basically up to Phil.

I'd be content with them just moving Johnson and not touching the defense otherwise. It's risky, but I'm okay with it.

 

[SEALBound]

Apologies, funny enough, my plus would be Simon. Grunstrom is a reach, he's probably one of the young guys who they can actually rely on in the NHL next year. I could see LA interested in Gudbranson or Maatta, both of the contracts fit what they are trying to do, and they need probably one more defenseman on either side. Toffoli is interesting as well.

I imagine Gudbranson would be of more interest than Maatta in a vacuum but the picks and prospects from Martinez in a TDL of pre-draft trade will be more enticing. Muzzin got 1st+Gundy with 1.5yrs left, I imagine Martinez could pull a 2nd+decent prospect. That said, they could then hand us a 3rd for Maatta and we'd likely take it. So I think in the realm of maximizing return, I don't see them swapping for Maatta. And is Simon enough to entice them? I doubt it. A lot depends on where they see themselves too. I have no clue what they are doing. Seemed like they were about to do great things when Kovy signed. Looking at the roster, they were a quality team. Then they fall flat on their faces. Are they retooling, rebuilding...what? No idea.

Could be that Phil wants it leaked in the hope that a place he likes more will post an offer Rutherford will do. Seems plausible enough to me. Sure everyone knows he's available, but the price and rumour of a nearly there deal will get people moving.

Possible. Florida and Arizona are the only other places that may have interest and Florida is only a maybe if they swing and miss on Panarin and maybe another high end FA. Maybe Arizona hasn't reached out yet. Who knows.

I do feel like though that Kessel is a very "passable" trade. Like "ZOMG, Mr. GM, Kessel is about to be traded. If we want to get in, we need to do it now!" "ummmm...yeah...I'm okay." Like, I imagine there's zero urgency from 29 teams on that front, lol.

I'm not sure why this suddenly would be a priority for JR.

Realistically, we only have one truly great wing - Guentzel. Everyone else is a top 6 capable wing but not the dynamic wing that Jake is. Problem is, in the NHL, we need balance and depth. I think Rust, McCann, Horny, maybe Bjugstad are all acceptable top 6 wings for Geno. They aren't Jake but...finding those high end guys are expensive and that hurts the depth. Is it worth it? I don't know.

Zucker would fit here well. But I'm 100% certain he's going on Sid's RW. Which still leaves a massive hole on Malkin's line.

I would still love to a JT Miller trade. Would mean sending out Hornqvist for Rust+another most likely, but he's a guy I see being good with Malkin.

Jake-Sid-Zucker
Miller-Geno-XXX

Solid top 6. A lot of options to fill that other gap too.

 

[KIRK]

 

[Malkinstheman]

Yohe on Crowley show tonight thinks if they move Johnson that they keep rest of defense. Isn't quite as sure about forward however mentioned Hornqvist as possible candidate. Says what Jesse said that its basically up to Phil.

JJ sucks ass, but even without him the Defence is not that good. JR better be looking for another top-4 guy...

 

[KIRK]

I imagine Gudbranson would be of more interest than Maatta in a vacuum but the picks and prospects from Martinez in a TDL of pre-draft trade will be more enticing. Muzzin got 1st+Gundy with 1.5yrs left, I imagine Martinez could pull a 2nd+decent prospect. That said, they could then hand us a 3rd for Maatta and we'd likely take it. So I think in the realm of maximizing return, I don't see them swapping for Maatta. And is Simon enough to entice them? I doubt it. A lot depends on where they see themselves too. I have no clue what they are doing. Seemed like they were about to do great things when Kovy signed. Looking at the roster, they were a quality team. Then they fall flat on their faces. Are they retooling, rebuilding...what? No idea.



Possible. Florida and Arizona are the only other places that may have interest and Florida is only a maybe if they swing and miss on Panarin and maybe another high end FA. Maybe Arizona hasn't reached out yet. Who knows.

I do feel like though that Kessel is a very "passable" trade. Like "ZOMG, Mr. GM, Kessel is about to be traded. If we want to get in, we need to do it now!" "ummmm...yeah...I'm okay." Like, I imagine there's zero urgency from 29 teams on that front, lol.



Realistically, we only have one truly great wing - Guentzel. Everyone else is a top 6 capable wing but not the dynamic wing that Jake is. Problem is, in the NHL, we need balance and depth. I think Rust, McCann, Horny, maybe Bjugstad are all acceptable top 6 wings for Geno. They aren't Jake but...finding those high end guys are expensive and that hurts the depth. Is it worth it? I don't know.




I would still love to a JT Miller trade. Would mean sending out Hornqvist for Rust+another most likely, but he's a guy I see being good with Malkin.

Jake-Sid-Zucker
Miller-Geno-XXX

Solid top 6. A lot of options to fill that other gap too.

Not sure I'd be calling Jake 'GREAT' in his own right, but he certainly is with Sid (or at least he was until it really counted this season). BUT, I agree with the greater point . . .

 

[Turin]

I don’t think this move is the only significant trade being made this offseason, so if it happens I’d say it’s a damn good start from a philosophical standpoint.

 

[iFishyHD]

Yohe on Crowley show tonight thinks if they move Johnson that they keep rest of defense. Isn't quite as sure about forward however mentioned Hornqvist as possible candidate. Says what Jesse said that its basically up to Phil.

I highly doubt Maatta and Schultz stay even if Johnson goes, and Hornqvist. We're only shedding 550k from Zucker/Kessel and Rask/Johnson, so after we resign the RFAs, to get any chance at a UFA forward its going to take two of Hornqvist/Maatta/Schultz/Gudbranson (or really any player 3m+) out the door. I wouldn't really include Schultz, but Rossi seems to think that a Schultz trade is somewhat plausible, and given recent rumors I am willing to run with it.

My dark horse if Kessel doesn't go to Minnesota is Kessel for Gologoski+ and Schultz for a forward. I have a strange feeling when JR meant he had the best defense he has had so far really means he has the most replaceable defense group he has had so far. He probably views Maatta, Johnson, Gudbranson, Schultz, and Pettersson in the same tier. Each having their own strengths, but all guys who aren't to hard to sub in and out.

 

[KIRK]

JJ sucks ass, but even without him the Defence is not that good. JR better be looking for another top-4 guy...

As I said before, if your aim in a Kessel trade is to help Malkin 5 on 5, then it certainly helps to move Kessel and Johnson, who the numbers clearly show killed Malkin every time Sully put him out there (which stupidly was A LOT).

 

[KIRK]

Yohe on Crowley show tonight thinks if they move Johnson that they keep rest of defense. Isn't quite as sure about forward however mentioned Hornqvist as possible candidate. Says what Jesse said that its basically up to Phil.

If the only move on defense is to move Johnson and to then call it a day, then it's a little addition by subtraction for a defense that needs more than that.

 

[Malkinstheman]

As I said before, if your aim in a Kessel trade is to help Malkin 5 on 5, then it certainly helps to move Kessel and Johnson, who the numbers clearly show killed Malkin every time Sully put him out there (which stupidly was A LOT).

Yeah for sure. Moving those two are huge positives themselves, but I think to be a true contender we need a BIG add on the backend.

 

[iFishyHD]

I imagine Gudbranson would be of more interest than Maatta in a vacuum but the picks and prospects from Martinez in a TDL of pre-draft trade will be more enticing. Muzzin got 1st+Gundy with 1.5yrs left, I imagine Martinez could pull a 2nd+decent prospect. That said, they could then hand us a 3rd for Maatta and we'd likely take it. So I think in the realm of maximizing return, I don't see them swapping for Maatta. And is Simon enough to entice them? I doubt it. A lot depends on where they see themselves too. I have no clue what they are doing. Seemed like they were about to do great things when Kovy signed. Looking at the roster, they were a quality team. Then they fall flat on their faces. Are they retooling, rebuilding...what? No idea.

Probably in year 1 of a 3/4 year rebuild. Probably trying to follow the Boston model, but Quick is no Rask and Kopitar is no Bergeron. They need young players, but some dude's with a high ceiling. I think after watching Chicago nail a pick on Debrincat they'll probably draft Caufield. I think they could find value in Maatta, Jarry if they're moving some goalies, Simon/ZAR, and picks. Gudbranson and Martinez are on identical contracts in terms of term and cap hit, so I could see them being interested in taking him back as a warm body and cap dump. However, I think the trade would end up being Maatta+, LA was interested in Maatta at the deadline (as well as Anaheim), but nothing materialized. I could see LA being more willing to trade Martinez in the offseason as they lost Muzzin a month before the TDL. I am purely speculating, but I think Martinez would be a good calming presence for the defense, and I think we have pieces that could interest them.

 

[KIRK]

Yeah for sure. Moving those two are huge positives themselves, but I think to be a true contender we need a BIG add on the backend.

Agree 100%. Just wrote if Yohe is right that they stand pat if they move Johnson here that it's not enough.

 

[Will Hunting]

Yeah, it´s not a thrilling return at first glance. But more I think about it, the more I like it. Zucker plays the style of game that i love. Healthy and fast hockey, he plays the right way and he is a good player. I hate Kessel´s style, everybody should know it around here. I´m also calling for the change of identity and this would really help. The fact that we can get Zucker+ for him is probably a clear win at this point. This is a last chance to move Kessel in a reasonable way. He served his purpose here, he wasn´t that expensive for us, served a purpose and now when he is almost a negative player for us we can still get a Zucker+ for him? I like it.

 

[Andy99]

If Phil truly wants to play with great players, he won’t go to Minn...no one is there...of course, maybe that’s less important than getting away from Sully...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You have to replace Maatta with a better partner for Schultz. Hell, I'd love for us to move Schultz and replace him with somebody like Trouba so we can groom Trouba to be Letang's eventual replacement in three years or so. But we have to get a better partner for that second pairing. Especially if we won't rid ourselves of Gudbranson's $4 million to play the #6, as we're going to have to put Petts with him.

I'm entirely in agreement with Rupp though; Phil's strength to this team was bringing a scoring threat from the third line. The issue is that he throws a tantrum if he's not with Geno, so it makes no sense (for many more reasons than just that one).

I think the best approach to fixing this team is to, over the next couple of summers, find Sid's permanent RW, find at least one Jake-caliber winger for Geno, revamp the second pairing (if Schultz needs to go, so be it).

Jake-Sid-Zucker
McCann-Geno-XXXX
Bjugs-Rask-Rust
Simon-Blueger-AJ/Bjorkqvist

I think that's the forward group we should be running, assuming we make the Zucker deal. We still need to fix that second pairing and find Geno a stud winger, but it's gotta start somewhere. It was never gonna be a quick fix, if we wanted to do it properly. I don't really care if we miss the playoffs this season as long as we work toward fixing things before Geno (and Letang, I think) is gone in three years.

If Zucker gets back to 65pt form, and I think that's got a better chance happening here than just about anywhere else, I'm entirely fine with a Phil for Zucker swap. A 65pt winger who does what Zucker does and brings what he brings is worth more to this team than an 80pt guy with all of Phil's baggage. The big issues, again, are how to fix Geno's wing and fix that second pairing--with Schultz potentially not being a part of that solution.

 

[KIRK]

If Phil truly wants to play with great players, he won’t go to Minn...no one is there...of course, maybe that’s less important than getting away from Sully...

I'm not sure that he necessarily cares about playing with truly great players. He might just be reticent because Minny is kind of a mess and the travel in the West generally sucks.

 

[iFishyHD]

Honestly, even hearing we already have an offer in place for Kessel and Johnson is in it is great news. JR knows this team needs something, and he wants to be proactive about it. The slight optimism is refreshing.

 

[Andy99]

Lol...TIOPS chiming in....here’s a summary...

TIOPS is claiming Kessel was actually asked to waive his NTC on Monday, and has already told the Penguins he is not going to waive his NTC for Minnesota. From what TIOPS is saying, the Penguins and Wild are trying to keep trade hopes alive, and that the Penguins have given the Wild permission to speak to Kessel and his agent. Problem is, accoding to TIOPS, Kessel and co aren't returning the Wild's calls. Wild have tried to get Parise and others involved to try and persuade Kessel to come to Minnesota.

TIOPS claims GMJR has already told Kessel there is zero possibility he is going to return to Pittsburgh next year, and claims Kessel has told the team find a deal with someone on his 8 team trade list, which TIOPS claims includes Nashville, LA, and Arizona

 

[Gurglesons]

If the only move on defense is to move Johnson and to then call it a day, then it's a little addition by subtraction for a defense that needs more than that.

I mean.. Olli should be moved, but at the same time he doesn’t kill everyone else around him like JJ does. He is just bad.

I think the biggest risk is Gudbranson regresses.

 

[KIRK]

I mean.. Olli should be moved, but at the same time he doesn’t kill everyone else around him like JJ does. He is just bad.

I think the biggest risk is Gudbranson regresses.

The problem is that we need a higher impact #3 to partner with Schultz. That's not Maatta (or Pettersson by the way). I think NOT resolving that problem is a bigger risk than Gudbranson regressing.

 

[Turin]

Lol...TIOPS chiming in....here’s a summary...

TIOPS is claiming Kessel was actually asked to waive his NTC on Monday, and has already told the Penguins he is not going to waive his NTC for Minnesota. From what TIOPS is saying, the Penguins and Wild are trying to keep trade hopes alive, and that the Penguins have given the Wild permission to speak to Kessel and his agent. Problem is, accoding to TIOPS, Kessel and co aren't returning the Wild's calls. Wild have tried to get Parise and others involved to try and persuade Kessel to come to Minnesota.

TIOPS claims GMJR has already told Kessel there is zero possibility he is going to return to Pittsburgh next year, and claims Kessel has told the team find a deal with someone on his 8 team trade list, which TIOPS claims includes Nashville, LA, and Arizona

TIOPs -> take what everybody knows and put a dramatic narrative that can’t be verified on it.

 

[Gurglesons]

The problem is that we need a higher impact #3 to partner with Schultz. That's not Maatta (or Pettersson by the way). I think NOT resolving that problem is a bigger risk than Gudbranson regressing.

Fact is you can get that at trade deadline.

You can’t get rid of JJ then.

 

[Turin]

The problem is that we need a higher impact #3 to partner with Schultz. That's not Maatta (or Pettersson by the way). I think NOT resolving that problem is a bigger risk than Gudbranson regressing.

I think both Schultz and Maatta should be shopped.