Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Killing time with pointless rumors

[ColePens]

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Previous threads:
Salary Cap: - Salary Cap + Roster building: "All of your Pittsburgh born players belong to us"
Salary Cap: - Salary Cap + Roster building: "I need a White Russian"
Salary Cap: - Salary Cap + Roster Building: Malkin Avengers - EndGame
Salary Cap: - Salary cap+roster building: To Malkin or not to Malkin?

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[ownal]

How could we acquire Edler & Mccabe? Obviously trade JJ, Maatta and Gudbranson. Any ideas on a trade scenario to do that?

 

[Corvidae]

How could we acquire Edler & Mccabe? Obviously trade JJ, Maatta and Gudbranson. Any ideas on a trade scenario to do that?

None that don't involve science fiction.

 

[Lust for Life]

Imo, there are two approaches for the next three years

I would definitely go for the re-build. There are too many players in the organization who either a) don't fit the playing style or b) gets paid too much. If we're being harsh, there's only ten players who are really worth keeping for one reason or another:

- Crosby
- Malkin
- Guentzel
- McCann (cheap, for another year at least)
- Blueger (cheap)
- Simon (cheap)

- Letang
- Dumoulin
- Pettersson

- Murray

The rest could really leave without me being fussed about it. Again, that's being harsh. Not all of the players listed below are bad players.

- Kessel (for whatever reason they want to trade him)
- Hornqvist (older, not really gelling, big cap hit)
- Bjugstad (pretty meh)
- Rust (i like him, but he's not integral and not cheap enough like Simon, McCann and Blueger)
- Schultz (expiring contract, doubts over long term future and fit)
- Maatta (no explanation needed)
- Gudbranson (see above)
- Johnson (see above)
- DeSmith (Jarry could take his place to save cap space. either way, not integral)

This doesn't mean I want to trade all of the above mentioned guys, but they could all be on the block for the reasons listed above. It's also the reason I believe that it will take a LOT of luck to challenge for the cup with this group of players, so the selling point towards the owners and the star players should be to go for a quick re-build to enable Sid/Geno/Tanger another cup window before retirement.

 

[Andy99]

I would definitely go for the re-build. There are too many players in the organization who either a) don't fit the playing style or b) gets paid too much. If we're being harsh, there's only ten players who are really worth keeping for one reason or another:

- Crosby
- Malkin
- Guentzel
- McCann (cheap, for another year at least)
- Blueger (cheap)
- Simon (cheap)

- Letang
- Dumoulin
- Pettersson

- Murray

The rest could really leave without me being fussed about it. Again, that's being harsh. Not all of the players listed below are bad players.

- Kessel (for whatever reason they want to trade him)
- Hornqvist (older, not really gelling, big cap hit)
- Bjugstad (pretty meh)
- Rust (i like him, but he's not integral and not cheap enough like Simon, McCann and Blueger)
- Schultz (expiring contract, doubts over long term future and fit)
- Maatta (no explanation needed)
- Gudbranson (see above)
- Johnson (see above)
- DeSmith (Jarry could take his place to save cap space. either way, not integral)

This doesn't mean I want to trade all of the above mentioned guys, but they could all be on the block for the reasons listed above. It's also the reason I believe that it will take a LOT of luck to challenge for the cup with this group of players, so the selling point towards the owners and the star players should be to go for a quick re-build to enable Sid/Geno/Tanger another cup window before retirement.

I agree on your list w the exception of Letang, who’s probably my second favorite player, but if you’re going rebuild, the team has to look at moving him now...not saying it’ll happen but he should be on the table.

I don’t think there’ll be a quick rebuild unless they make fantastic trades and hit on many of their draft picks...that’s the thing w rebuilds...I think it’ll take three years and they need to be finding top 6 centers and a #1 D man in the draft...the end of rebuild will be the end of Letang and G’s contracts

 

[Lust for Life]

The thing about trading Letang is that he is, for all intents and purposes, irreplaceable.
That's not to say there aren't players who are as good as him, because there sure are, but you're most likely not gonna be able to get them. Unless Montreal absorbs his entire cap hit and you spend the cap space from Letang and Kessel on EK65 .

The re-build might take three years, sure, but at the end you're hopefully better suited for contending than you'd be otherwise.

 

[Turin]

The Pens don’t need to rebuild.

 

[Andy99]

The thing about trading Letang is that he is, for all intents and purposes, irreplaceable.
That's not to say there aren't players who are as good as him, because there sure are, but you're most likely not gonna be able to get them. Unless Montreal absorbs his entire cap hit and you spend the cap space from Letang and Kessel on EK65 .

The re-build might take three years, sure, but at the end you're hopefully better suited for contending than you'd be otherwise.

Right...we’re going to suck with a rebuild...that’s the point...you collect a high first draft pick for Letang, or whomever, and an excellent prospect and you try to find and develop the next Letang, or the next Sid/Geno, to anchor your team in a few years...

Rebuild is what NYR are doing
Chicago (and earlier Boston) did more of a retool around their core and so far the B’s have been more successful at it...as long as you have the goalie and a few core pieces it works, but you have to bring in young players (23 and under) either through trades or the draft...Chicago has been at it for three years and they still haven’t made the POs...they have had a worse contract situation with Keith and Seabrook which is part of the problem— if they could trade those contracts they would, but they’ve been getting rid of what they can without completely sucking..they really lucked out this year in getting #3 in the draft even though they were in the PO hunt in the central up until the last couple weeks...

Our biggest issue imo is do you trust JR and Sully (because the former is tying himself to the latter) to run the retool?

 

[BladeRunner66]

The Pens don’t need to rebuild.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Turin]

Care to elaborate?

Rebuild means tearing it down and starting again. Pens have to/are going to retool on the fly the next three years.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Care to elaborate?

See Sharks.

Requires solid drafting. More picks like Guentzel for example.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Since we're killing time here, here's a quick trivia question: Outside of the Big 3 (87,71,58 obviously), who is the longest-tenured Penguin? My sincere congratulations and respect to anyone who knows this without "cheating"....

 

[Malkinstheman]

Since we're killing time here, here's a quick trivia question: Outside of the Big 3 (87,71,58 obviously), who is the longest-tenured Penguin? My sincere congratulations and respect to anyone who knows this without "cheating"....

Maatta?

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Maatta?

How the hell did you know that? His youth kept him off my radar, but yeah, you pegged it. Well done!

 

[SEALBound]

2015-2016 was a retool on the fly. Worked out well. The league is so cyclic and so much depends on player performance, both individual and team, that you can do all the right trades and moves...and still not win.

Not every season is a guarantee of anything. That's why its so important to cherish the cups when we do get them.

I am 100% convinced that it would not have mattered what moves were made last year...we were not winning. I don't any signing or move that JR made that was singlehandedly responsible for us losing. That's foolish.

With the draft getting closer, I'm laughing at those bitching about Hughes, Kakko, etc being in the Metro division. NY and NJ have been jokes for awhile now. NY committed to the rebuild and sold their best players off. Lots of you are talking about of both sides of your mouth. "We have no prospects! We need to refresh the prospect pool and get good young players! Look at NJ, NY, Carolina, and all the other teams that haven't won shit in the last decade who have stockpiled young players!" and then "Don't you dare trade any good players for picks! That won't help us! Here's what we need to do: trade all of our bad players, sign all of the good players. Off season is easy: Trade Maatta, JJ, Gudbranson; sign Skinner, Ferland, Karlsson. Easy. JR is dumb tho!"

 

[JackFr]

McCabe is not a top four defenceman, and I think Edler soon won't be either.

Can we please not get pulled into the defenceman free agency bidding war again?

 

[SEALBound]

How the hell did you know that? His youth kept him off my radar, but yeah, you pegged it. Well done!

Maatta and Dumoulin. TECHNICALLY...it's Dumoulin. We received him in the Staal trade at the draft right before the Pouliot pick. Wasn't until the 22nd pick we got Maatta. So technically, Dumo has been our for an hour or so longer than Maatta. Play time in the NHL say otherwise, but time with org...goes to Dumo.

 

[Corvidae]

McCabe is not a top four defenceman, and I think Edler soon won't be either.

Can we please not get pulled into the defenceman free agency bidding war again?

Someone else was bidding for Jack Johnson? Yikes.

But those two are still miles better than 50% of our current group. That doesn't mean you're wrong, just that the Penguins were.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Maatta and Dumoulin. TECHNICALLY...it's Dumoulin. We received him in the Staal trade at the draft right before the Pouliot pick. Wasn't until the 22nd pick we got Maatta. So technically, Dumo has been our for an hour or so longer than Maatta. Play time in the NHL say otherwise, but time with org...goes to Dumo.

I am humbled by the depth of knowledge in this group. Dumo was my guess, but I was too lazy to put the pieces together as you did, and had forgotten the exact timing of the Staal trade. Speaking of Staal, I felt for him in the handshake line with the Bruins. Rask keeps this up and they are unbeatable I fear.

 

[Corvidae]

See Sharks.

Requires solid drafting. More picks like Guentzel for example.

- "Requires solid drafting." Shit, I was hoping it was something the Pens could do.

- Sharks are a shit call/MAF melt from being dumped in the 1st round, then went to 7 against the equivalent 8th seed, winning by a 1 goal and a lucky offsides. They're good enough to take advantage of some favorable officiating in a bonkers year, and sometimes that's all you need, but I would not consider them a model of success.

 

[Malkinstheman]

- "Requires solid drafting." ****, I was hoping it was something the Pens could do.

- Sharks are a **** call/MAF melt from being dumped in the 1st round, then went to 7 against the equivalent 8th seed, winning by a 1 goal and a lucky offsides. They're good enough to take advantage of some favorable officiating in a bonkers year, and sometimes that's all you need, but I would not consider them a model of success.

Plus with Karlsson getting injured again, I think St.Louis wins.

 

[JackFr]

Can I quietly say that Ruhwedel is a perfectly fine defenceman and I would be perfectly happy to see him play on our bottom pair.

Dude is very solid defensively and has surprisingly great analytics. This year he was our lowest PDO player by far at 94%, and it wasn't his fault that he was out there for goals against. His expected GF% was +5.4 and he ended up at -28.6% - it's not like he was allowing brilliant chances against. But of course this forum evaluates defencemen exclusively by how often the puck ends up in the net behind them and how fast they can skate so he got a horrible rap around here this season.

I would be honestly curious to see how he would do with Marcus Pettersson if Gudbranson falls back to earth. At the very least I really hope they resign him as the 7D.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

- "Requires solid drafting." ****, I was hoping it was something the Pens could do.

- Sharks are a **** call/MAF melt from being dumped in the 1st round, then went to 7 against the equivalent 8th seed, winning by a 1 goal and a lucky offsides. They're good enough to take advantage of some favorable officiating in a bonkers year, and sometimes that's all you need, but I would not consider them a model of success.

They also dont have Crosby/Malkin. But drafted guys like Couture, Pavelski, Hertl, Lebanc, etc..

They've been pretty great at it.

And we arent bad...we just trade our 1st every year. Guentzel was a great pick. Murray was a great pick. Build from that. We will see with Blueger, Bjorkvist, Hallander, Almeida, Addison, etc.

May not be a Guentzel in that group but guys who are better than who we currently have in the bottom six. And a few who have the potential to be top(two) line players.

Have to continue drafting the way we did last year.

 

[Peat]

Rebuild means tearing it down and starting again. Pens have to/are going to retool on the fly the next three years.

Is there a word for somewhere between rebuild and retool?

Because I feel like rebuild is what you've got to do when your 5-6 best players just aren't good enough to envision winning a cup with. And retool is what happens when your 5-6 best players are, but the team as a whole isn't.

Because I think we might have to replace one of that 5-6 (and also a lot of the supporting staff). So kinda in the middle.

 

[Corvidae]

Plus with Karlsson getting injured again, I think St.Louis wins.

I sure hope so. I was all in for the Blues anyway, but after that hand pass, f*** the Sharks. I have zero confidence that they wouldn't completely fold against Boston because that's what they do and the officials won't be so kind in that one.

Can I quietly say that Ruhwedel is a perfectly fine defenceman and I would be perfectly happy to see him play on our bottom pair.

Dude is very solid defensively and has surprisingly great analytics. This year he was our lowest PDO player by far at 94%, and it wasn't his fault that he was out there for goals against. His expected GF% was +5.4 and he ended up at -28.6% - it's not like he was allowing brilliant chances against. But of course this forum evaluates defencemen exclusively by how often the puck ends up in the net behind them and how fast they can skate so he got a horrible rap around here this season.

I would be honestly curious to see how he would do with Marcus Pettersson if Gudbranson falls back to earth. At the very least I really hope they resign him as the 7D.

I hear you, but I'm also hearing, "trade a 2nd for Zack Bogosian to increase push back and pucknasity."