Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster building: "I need a White Russian"

[Riptide]

You are seriously writing 8 lines questioning Evgeni Malkin's commitment to winning based on his faceoff abilities or lack of such?

Just pointing out one example (there's others) that his "commitment" isn't quite what @Big Friggin Dummy says it is.

 

[Tender Rip]

Just pointing out one example (there's others) that his "commitment" isn't quite what @Big Friggin Dummy says it is.

Its been 13 years of Malkin being one of the two main reasons we're something.
Its been a couple of weeks since the very first time anyone in management has ever said a negative word about Malkin's attitude or difficulties with a team-first mindset. The next time we see Malkin say something disparaging of any coach or teammate in public will be the first.

So, even if there's some fire to go with the smoke somewhere, I am inclined to think Malkin grumbling has a lot more to do with being critical of this years team, how we've been playing and the kind of role/support he has had.... basically in line with what a big number of people here would be thinking.

There is being unsupportive/undermining management and then there's being critical of something that isn't working. If Malkin was a negative influence on this team, I cannot believe there was not a single peep about it before JR started doing post-sweep damage control. More to the point, without any evidence to the contrary I refuse to accept that sort of criticism of him. Rather I think it is an enormous blight on the franchise to see it from the General Manager.

 

[HandshakeLine]

you think Letang will retire in three years?

Or contract the Black Plague.

 

[treeni12]

Checked in on Geno overseas and watched some games/highlights, etc. and he's really been...meh.
The thing i question atm is his fitness level and commitment watching him. It's much larger ice too and he's just not standing out like he should or usually does. Step slow and gets closed on quicker than usual.
Been stapled to Kucherov and had Gusarov for 2 games and Grigirenko today.
Zero points in 3 games and got a double minor for high sticking vs Sweden + another 2 for slashing.

So if anyone thought he was just playing poorly cuz he hated being on PIT.
That certainly doesn't seem to be the case.

Disagree. He's been pretty good and his skating looks very good. They are passing little bit too much with Kuhherov, but he could have 3-4 points. His shot looks pretty bad ATM

Sweet pass

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The one course of avenue we can't take is to stay the course. I'd rather watch us sell off guys like Phil, Geno and Letang and go full rebuild than to watch JR continue his reign of directionless stupidity, wasting the last few years Geno's got in the league--Letang as well, potentially.

I'd prefer JR pull his head out of his ass and fix the roster so we can make a few more legit runs at the Cup with this core, and let guys like Geno and Letang ride off into the sunset wearing a Penguins sweater, but I really don't think that's even worth discussing because it's never going to happen.

 

[Hossa die Waldfee]

Do people here really believe that we will contend any time in the near future, after we trade Evgeni Malkin?
I guess we would still have the best blueline since JR's arrival but would that be enough?

 

[Tender Rip]

The one course of avenue we can't take is to stay the course.

Well, stay the course would be to keep the same key players and the same management.
Then one can discuss who are key players, which brings us back to a recent "core" discussion... or whatever we call that.

I would say that if you remove Kessel, Horny, Johnson and Maatta (and Cullen) from the current lineup and consider the total return to be minimal except for fully added cap-room, we should be competitive (and younger) next season if JR does well in free agency.

It'd also require the players and coach to be on the same page, obviously, but I'd rather see this year as a one-year blip where things ultimately went wrong (from JR decisions to Sullivan roster management to individual player performances). That would qualify as staying the course in my book, and indeed that should be preferable seeing that we were a 100 point team while sucking pond water.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Well, stay the course would be to keep the same key players and the same management.
Then one can discuss who are key players, which brings us back to a recent "core" discussion... or whatever we call that.

I would say that if you remove Kessel, Horny, Johnson and Maatta (and Cullen) from the current lineup and consider the total return to be minimal except for fully added cap-room, we should be competitive (and younger) next season if JR does well in free agency.

It'd also require the players and coach to be on the same page, obviously, but I'd rather see this year as a one-year blip where things ultimately went wrong (from JR decisions to Sullivan roster management to individual player performances). That would qualify as staying the course in my book, and indeed that should be preferable seeing that we were a 100 point team while sucking pond water.

I was more referring to the approach this team has had regarding team building in addition to the roster itself when I mentioned staying the course.

Don't get me wrong, quite a bit of work needs to be done and I am absolutely certain this roster won't look the same in October. I think Phil's gone, Horny should follow soon after. I think JJ and Maatta are absolute, must-move players. I hate the idea of paying Gudbranson $4 million to be as effective a bottom pairing guy as any random AHL fodder would be with regard to transition and offensive output from the blueline. Somehow, we need to find Geno his version of Jake, whether by trade (most likely) or through FA (last resort).

But even before all that, JR needs to pull an abrupt and dramatic about-face when it comes to how he approaches building a hockey team. Enough of the pushback stuff, enough trading/signing guys simply because they're "heavy" players. Speed, youth, skill, and arguably above all else; hunger. You don't need a roster of Hagelins in order to play fast, but you do need a roster of guys willing to do everything in order to win, on top of a blueline capable of transition and offense from the backend. This roster is sorely lacking both.

I'm just worried that JR sees the team that embarrassed his team get embarrassed themselves and doesn't take the time to figure out why (*ahem*blueline*ahem*) but instead goes full-on crazy, makes Geno the scapegoat, and trades him. I'm still skeptical it'll actually happen, but for the first time in the Sid/Geno era, I'm genuinely nervous that it will.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think it's less about "We're citing TIOPS?!" and more "TIOPS is taking very legitimate things that people have known for weeks and running with them".

None of the TIOPS stuff is new. It's all essentially been said already by guys who are media lackeys for this team like Yohe and Mackey, as well as the GM himself outright refusing to say he's not going to move Geno or Letang, and even floating vague garbage like "off-ice maturity" and "guys in the room aren't team guys", etc.

I feel like that's just being an echo chamber, though. TIOPS has no sources, they're just making stuff up and blending it with the obvious or what others have reported to make it seem real.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also, take this with a huge grain of salt, but worth throwing out:



The player being referenced seems to be Chad Ruhwedel, so him buying a house locally suggests that the Penguins may be re-signing him.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Oh goody.

 

[HandshakeLine]

(For the record, Ruhwedel is fine, just nothing to be overly excited about. )

 

[Peat]

(For the record, Ruhwedel is fine, just nothing to be overly excited about. )

I'd be mildly disappointed. I like a lot about his game, but his shortcomings have got more and more exposed with each passing season, and a bet on him is probably bad news for Riikola and I'm not so excited about that. I'd have brought him back if he wanted back, but with a warning that he's better off house shopping in WBS.

Do people here really believe that we will contend any time in the near future, after we trade Evgeni Malkin?
I guess we would still have the best blueline since JR's arrival but would that be enough?

With the right other moves, a giant dollop of luck and an entirely in sync team, yes. There are teams with less talent than we had this year sans Geno making big runs all the time because they hit form and have great togetherness.

The general belief that cup contention is only possible if one grossly outtalents 75% of the league just doesn't seem to hold up with what I've seen the last few years.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd be mildly disappointed. I like a lot about his game, but his shortcomings have got more and more exposed with each passing season, and a bet on him is probably bad news for Riikola and I'm not so excited about that. I'd have brought him back if he wanted back, but with a warning that he's better off house shopping in WBS.

Riikola being able to play both RD and LD is a benefit, plus he probably has a higher upside than Ruhwedel, but Ruhwedel is better right now and RHD are more valuable than LHD. I would prefer to keep Ruhwedel over Riikola personally, but I'd like to keep both. I wouldn't be opposed to running with 8D again next year, it's not like WBS is overflowing with any NHL ready forward prospects that you can't justify sending to the AHL.

 

[The Old Master]

I'd be mildly disappointed. I like a lot about his game, but his shortcomings have got more and more exposed with each passing season.

but the team/fo seem to recognize his short commings, unlike jj'/maatta.

 

[ChaosAgent]

He's in the NHL. He can buy the house.

 

[The Old Master]

Riikola being able to play both RD and LD is a benefit, plus he probably has a higher upside than Ruhwedel, but Ruhwedel is better right now and RHD are more valuable than LHD. I would prefer to keep Ruhwedel over Riikola personally, but I'd like to keep both. I wouldn't be opposed to running with 8D again next year, it's not like WBS is overflowing with any NHL ready forward prospects that you can't justify sending to the AHL.

yep! no reason to keep a cheep young kid when we already have a bunch of old overpaid players. imo

 

[Empoleon8771]

yep! no reason to keep a cheep young kid when we already have a bunch of old overpaid players. imo

"Young"

Riikola is going to be 26 at the start of next season. You comment makes literally no sense, because I was talking about keeping Ruhwedel, who is neither cheap or will be overpaid. In fact, Riikola will probably be making more money if the Penguins retain him next year, because his QO is $970k and Ruhwedel won't even hit $700k on an extension.

 

[The Old Master]

"Young"

Riikola is going to be 26 at the start of next season. You comment makes literally no sense, because I was talking about keeping Ruhwedel, who is neither cheap or will be overpaid. In fact, Riikola will probably be making more money if the Penguins retain him next year, because his QO is $970k and Ruhwedel won't even hit $700k on an extension.

and I was talking about the rest.

 

[Peat]

Riikola being able to play both RD and LD is a benefit, plus he probably has a higher upside than Ruhwedel, but Ruhwedel is better right now and RHD are more valuable than LHD. I would prefer to keep Ruhwedel over Riikola personally, but I'd like to keep both. I wouldn't be opposed to running with 8D again next year, it's not like WBS is overflowing with any NHL ready forward prospects that you can't justify sending to the AHL.

I don't think Ruh is better now and, in doubt, I'd prefer to back the higher payout. Its not like finding another Ruh if wrong would be that hard. Guess you could run 8D again but I'd prefer the flexibility of 14 forwards, although that's not a big one either way.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think Ruh is better now and, in doubt, I'd prefer to back the higher payout. Its not like finding another Ruh if wrong would be that hard. Guess you could run 8D again but I'd prefer the flexibility of 14 forwards, although that's not a big one either way.

I don't see anything that suggests Riikola is better than Ruhwedel. Riikola was very not good this year, he was an OFD who couldn't produce and a puck mover who had terrible possession stats.

and I was talking about the rest.

The Penguins don't have any old and overpaid forwards. All of their problematic contracts are with their defense. So again, your post doesn't make any sense.

 

[The Old Master]

I don't see anything that suggests Riikola is better than Ruhwedel. Riikola was very not good this year, he was an OFD who couldn't produce and a puck mover who had terrible possession stats.



The Penguins don't have any old and overpaid forwards. All of their problematic contracts are with their defense. So again, your post doesn't make any sense.

????? when did it change to forwards?

 

[Andy99]

He's in the NHL. He can buy the house.

But he apparently can’t skate the puck out of his own end....

 

[Peat]

I don't see anything that suggests Riikola is better than Ruhwedel. Riikola was very not good this year, he was an OFD who couldn't produce and a puck mover who had terrible possession stats.

Riikola wasn't good when playing a lot of top 4 in his first season. Ruhwedel wasn't good when playing bottom pairing after about a hundred games. Riikola has a lot of issues in knowing what he can and can't do, which is something Ruh doesn't have a problem with, but his toolkit made up for it and he didn't get repeatedly hemmed in on the boards like Ruh did.

I'd say they showed about equal.

 

[molon labe]

I think every team in the NHL would give you a mid 1st for Kessel.

It will probably come down to three or four. If each one of those teams is willing to offer up their 1st - then the add is what will be the separation.

If AZ's 1st - 14OA is in play - I image that should get the deal done.

Clearing his cap space is the biggest acquisition we would likely get in a deal involving Phil.