Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Forget the whale ... We'll buy the place with beads

[Nakawick]

The Pens have helped St. Louis and Detroit as of late. Maybe teams are starting to think we are charitable??

Or maybe we are owed another Schultz for a 3rd type of deal.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Now that is a crazy f***in trade.

I wouldn't have traded that much for Duchene. Sakic waited for a king's ransom and got pretty damn close to it.

 

[66-30-33]

What's the deal with your avatar?

Poor life choices. I'm addicted to 5 hour energy and drink them pretty religiously. One time drank 3 in under hour and almost had heart attack, could not get out of my bed. I'm like a junkie looking for my next fix.

The Pens have helped St. Louis and Detroit as of late. Maybe teams are starting to think we are charitable??

Big difference between them and a team that has won back to back cups and still loaded. It would be like Kings and Hawks making eachother better when they kept winning cups.

 

[cygnus47]

Nashville is in an amazing position cap wise. They have no-one important coming off contract until after next season. Then they only have to fit Ellis, Fiala and Sissons and they already have almost 5 million in cap space. Emelin coming off the books will pay for Turris' pay raise. Poile has done a great job there.

 

[Riptide]

This is great for the pens because Duchene isn't going to CBJ.

And is Ottawa even a better team after this trade?

Is Duchene better then Turris?

That was my first thought. The only way we have to deal with Nashville, is if we both get back to the Finals. Sure they're now a powerhouse team... but lots can happen between the 1st round and the Finals.

Yes Ottawa is a better team after this trade, and yes Duchene is better than Turris. But there were other factors there for Ottawa. They may be more willing to commit to Duchene then Turris long term (rumor is they wouldn't go past 5 years for KT). They also have to deal with getting Karlsson signed this summer. Does he sign if they had let Turris walk? Sure Ottawa will still have to pony up for MD, but he's also younger and a better player then KT, so they may be more willing. Or they'll trade him in 12+ months and recoup their 1st+ that they gave up, and then their "rental #1C" ended up costing them next to nothing.

Budget wise, Ottawa has a lot of money coming off the cap when Duchene's new deal (assuming he re-signs) kicks in. Overall I think this was a smart move for them. It wasn't cheap, but neither was it in any way expensive.

 

[Riptide]

I don't want to post the tweet to what Friedman said, but dear lord, that's a lot for Duchene.

Not really. They get a top 10 protected 1st (goes to OTT 2019 1st in that case), a 2nd, a 2019 3rd, Hammond (likely the reason for the 3rd), and 3 prospects - of which only 1 has played NHL games (5), and none of which are considered blue chip prospects. And those picks? All likely to be very late. Ottawa's 1st was #27 last year. Nashville's 2nd was 60th last year.

I'm not saying it's a bad return (we obviously will not know that for another 3+ years), but it's far from a great return. It's a LOT of quantity with very little quality.

 

[Riptide]

Any of the Knights Cs would be a good fit here I think. Haula, Eakin, Lindberg or Karlsson. They'd need to retain some salary on Eakin though.

Not really - we would just have to wait until later on in the season to acquire him.

 

[Pens x]

It's pointless to continue to blindly suggest unfounded trade ideas with Vegas while they play well and in playoff contention. It's early in the season, and I'm sure they will collapse, but this is all moot until that happens.

We need to focus on teams like Buffalo, Arizona and Florida if you want to trade picks/prospects. If you don't like anyone from those team then we need to wait until teams figure out where they stand.

What would you offer for Bjugstad?

 

[SEALBound]

Honestly, that's a great trade from the Penguins POV. Columbus didn't get him. Nor did any team that has a chance to actually challenge us when the time comes. Yes, we faced Ottawa in the EFC last year but I don't see them as a legit threat nor do I believe Duchene makes them one. They essentially traded Turris for Duchene. Not enough to put them over the top.

For us, it's not about who got him but rather who didn't. Nashville getting Turris kinda stinks but we'll only see them in the SCF if everything comes together. RyJo, Turris, Bones, Jarnkrok...that's pretty decent center depth.

Which brings me to a new question...wonder if this in any way, shape, or form, makes Jarnkrok available?

 

[Riptide]

It's pointless to continue to blindly suggest unfounded trade ideas with Vegas while they play well and in playoff contention. It's early in the season, and I'm sure they will collapse, but this is all moot until that happens.

We need to focus on teams like Buffalo, Arizona and Florida if you want to trade picks/prospects. If you don't like anyone from those team then we need to wait until teams figure out where they stand.

What would you offer for Bjugstad?

Then why isn't it moot for Buffalo, Arizona and Florida? They could turn things around.

 

[Riptide]

Which brings me to a new question...wonder if this in any way, shape, or form, makes Jarnkrok available?

Probably not. And if he was available, I don't think I'd like what he would cost.

 

[Jacob]

It's pointless to continue to blindly suggest unfounded trade ideas with Vegas while they play well and in playoff contention.

No it isn't, because...

It's early in the season, and I'm sure they will collapse.

 

[Pens x]

Then why isn't it moot for Buffalo, Arizona and Florida? They could turn things around.

Are you really going to challenge me on EVERYTHING? I bet you are the fun guy at the party.

Arizona has 5 friggin points this season. Florida made it clear this summer that they want to shed salary and aren't really competing. Further, there have been rumblings about Bjugstad being available.
Buffalo isn't a good team and haven't been for years.

Vegas is currently sitting in 3rd in the western conference. Why exactly are they looking to make a deal for whatever crappy proposals you people will suggest?

But please, keep asking if the Preds will trade us Jarnkrok who is signed to 5 more years as $2 million cap hit a year. Keep dreaming, bro.

 

[Jacob]

Dallas seems to have a surplus of middling centers (Janmark, Faksa [whom I do not like], Shore), though I don't know what their needs are.

 

[Pens x]

No it isn't, because...

Well until they collapse this is all pointless. Let's look at teams that aren't #3 in their conference or very good young players signed to a six year contract with a $2 million cap hit.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not really. They get a top 10 protected 1st (goes to OTT 2019 1st in that case), a 2nd, a 2019 3rd, Hammond (likely the reason for the 3rd), and 3 prospects - of which only 1 has played NHL games (5), and none of which are considered blue chip prospects. And those picks? All likely to be very late. Ottawa's 1st was #27 last year. Nashville's 2nd was 60th last year.

I'm not saying it's a bad return (we obviously will not know that for another 3+ years), but it's far from a great return. It's a LOT of quantity with very little quality.

They got basically 3 Sprong equivalent prospects. Yeah, they didn't get a prospect like Elias Pettersson, but they got some really good prospects. To say that they got "very little quality" is laughable, the Penguins don't even have 3 prospects on par with Kamanev, Bowers and Girard. They have Sprong, that's it. It's a ridiculously good futures package.

It would be like St. Louis giving up Dunn (who's apparently playing extremely well with St. Louis right now), Kostin, Barbashev, a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for Duchene. That's an insane futures package for Duchene.

 

[Jacob]

Well until they collapse this is all pointless. Let's look at teams that aren't #3 in their conference or very good young players signed to a six year contract with a $2 million cap hit.

Everything we post here is pointless, we're just fans. But if the collapse is inevitable, which I agree it is, it's worth it for management to make some calls and see who would be the best fit here, and what the asking prices might be.

 

[Riptide]

They got basically 3 Sprong equivalent prospects. Yeah, they didn't get a prospect like Elias Pettersson, but they got some really good prospects. To say that they got "very little quality" is laughable, the Penguins don't even have 3 prospects on par with Kamanev, Bowers and Girard. They have Sprong, that's it.

Not even close. Bowers isn't even in Ottawa's top 5 for prospects, and has already been surpassed by a handful of others. And Kamanov - someone who I really like and thought was a steal of a pick, hasn't progressed nearly as fast as many would like. And while he's doing well in the AHL, Sprong has as many goals as he has points - and Sprong is a rookie while Kamanev is in his 3rd pro season). So that still falls short. Girard could be... but with only 11 pro games to his name (5 NHL, 6 AHL) it's way too soon to suggest that.

And just because Pittsburgh doesn't have 3 prospects at that level... doesn't mean much when we have one of the shallowest prospect pools in the league.

Edit. @ your edit. LOL, not even close.

 

[Riptide]

Are you really going to challenge me on EVERYTHING?

When you post stupid shit, yes.

Arizona has 5 friggin points this season. Florida made it clear this summer that they want to shed salary and aren't really competing. Further, there have been rumblings about Bjugstad being available. Buffalo isn't a good team and haven't been for years.

Vegas is currently sitting in 3rd in the western conference. Why exactly are they looking to make a deal for whatever crappy proposals you people will suggest?

And 6 of the 8 playoff teams from the Western Conference last year are not currently in a PO spot. But please, continue to put a ton of faith on a 13 game stretch at the start of the season.

And what "crappy proposals" are you talking about? Most posters have named names that we should be asking about, not making actual proposals. No guarantee that those players will be available, but it would be idiotic not to ask about them.

But please, keep asking if the Preds will trade us Jarnkrok who is signed to 5 more years as $2 million cap hit a year. Keep dreaming, bro.

And yet another stupid made up post that ignores reality.

Just a suggestion... get your shit straight before writing stupid statements about what others are dreaming about.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not even close. Bowers isn't even in Ottawa's top 5 for prospects, and has already been surpassed by a handful of others. And Kamanov - someone who I really like and thought was a steal of a pick, hasn't progressed nearly as fast as many would like. And while he's doing well in the AHL, Sprong has as many goals as he has points. So that still falls short. Girard could be... but with only 11 pro games to his name (5 NHL, 6 AHL) it's way too soon to suggest that.

And just because Pittsburgh doesn't have 3 prospects at that level... doesn't mean much when we have one of the shallowest prospect pools in the league.

Edit. @ your edit. LOL, not even close.

Bowers was a 1st round pick in 2017. Kamanev is a PPG player in the AHL. Girard put up 75 points as a defenseman in the QMJHL last year. All of those prospects are on par with guys like Sprong and Kapanen. You're valuation of them is completely off.

How was my edit wrong? How is Dunn, Kostin and Barbashev better than Kamanev, Girard and Bowers? You have the young defenseman doing well in the NHL, the late 2017 1st round pick and the guy who has thrived in the AHL.

 

[The GM]

Not even close. Bowers isn't even in Ottawa's top 5 for prospects, and has already been surpassed by a handful of others. And Kamanov - someone who I really like and thought was a steal of a pick, hasn't progressed nearly as fast as many would like. And while he's doing well in the AHL, Sprong has as many goals as he has points - and Sprong is a rookie while Kamanev is in his 3rd pro season). So that still falls short. Girard could be... but with only 11 pro games to his name (5 NHL, 6 AHL) it's way too soon to suggest that.

And just because Pittsburgh doesn't have 3 prospects at that level... doesn't mean much when we have one of the shallowest prospect pools in the league.

Edit. @ your edit. LOL, not even close.

It looks like they got something between the lindros return from Philly and the jagr return from Washington,

 

[66-30-33]

I wish we had more Sprongs in our prospect pool. Atleast we do good with UFA college kids, hopefully ZAR pans out and becomes a Hornqvist-lite type.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Not even close. Bowers isn't even in Ottawa's top 5 for prospects, and has already been surpassed by a handful of others. And Kamanov - someone who I really like and thought was a steal of a pick, hasn't progressed nearly as fast as many would like. And while he's doing well in the AHL, Sprong has as many goals as he has points - and Sprong is a rookie while Kamanev is in his 3rd pro season). So that still falls short. Girard could be... but with only 11 pro games to his name (5 NHL, 6 AHL) it's way too soon to suggest that.

Yeah, it could potentially be a big haul, I kind of agree that Colorado didn't really get a "can't miss stud" in the package. Two guys who have mid level upside (ie. likely middle six forwards with a low chance of being a top liner) in Bowers and Kamenev, and one guy who has the potential to be anywhere between Tyson Barrie to Derrick Pouliot (Girard).

The draft picks, while obviously nice, could actually be in the 20s and beyond if both Ottawa and Nashville do as well as they're expected to.

 

[Riptide]

Bowers was a 1st round pick in 2017. Kamanev is a PPG player in the AHL. Girard put up 75 points as a defenseman in the QMJHL last year. All of those prospects are on par with guys like Sprong and Kapanen. You're valuation of them is completely off.

How was my edit wrong? How is Dunn, Kostin and Barbashev better than Kamanev, Girard and Bowers? You have the young defenseman doing well in the NHL, the late 2017 1st round pick and the guy who has thrived in the AHL.

Maybe do a little research? Sprong has more than 50% of the goals Kamanev had in his rookie season and 30% of the points he had, and he's only played 10 games, and is putting up almost twice the PPG that Kamanev did in that season - which was 3 f***ing years ago. And even with Kamanev's previous pro seasons under his belt he's still not exceeding a PPG like Sprong is. No, these are not even close to equivalent players. @Girard and his 75 pts... Pouliot put up 70 in the WHL... what's your point? Dunn at least put up quality AHL numbers. And I'm 100% certain that if you asked HF who had more value, Kostin vs Bowers, damn near everybody would say Kostin. Kostin fell because he's a Russian, while Bowers was seen as a 2nd round pick, and has already been surpassed by other Ottawa prospects - including some from the same draft.

But if it makes you feel better, go put up some polls. Then everyone else can tell you the same thing. No one - even me - is saying that these are crap prospects. But none of these are excellent sure fire NHLers - none, and none even came close to being a teams top/upper echelon prospect.

 

[Jacob]

Bowers is provably equal to Sprong, as is the first. Kamenev? Probably like their Aston-Reese equivalent.