Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Forget the whale ... We'll buy the place with beads

[Pens x]

And yet Sully sung the praises of Sheahan and his line after last nights game. But, what does he know.

The guy also starts Kuhn every single night, everyone makes mistakes. He probably thinks Sheahan needs confidence right now. Jay Caulfield also compliment the third line; who cares.

 

[Shady Machine]

He does have to finish his chances soon. I think tying the game up on that great chance would have been a huge confidence booster.

He hit the crossbar the other game to...

At a certain point it's not snakebites, it's thinking too hard and thinking you are going to hit the crossbar or the goalies pads...

I think he's manifesting his ****ty luck right now.

I can agree with that. Eventually one is going to go in for him. The question is whether he can build some momentum and confidence off of that and get back to being a 10-15 goal guy.

If JR can find a way to bring in a better offensive center to either push Sheahan down to 4C or develop a more offensive 4th line, then they should be in good shape. Like Sutter and Bones, Sheahan is a solid positional hockey player and rarely makes mistakes with the puck in dangerous areas. He does help insulate and support his linemates to go on offense. I just don't think we can rely on him to center a line that can contribute consistently in the playoffs and we need that to be successful, particularly if our 4C is Rowney or McKegg.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I can agree with that. Eventually one is going to go in for him. The question is whether he can build some momentum and confidence off of that and get back to being a 10-15 goal guy.

If JR can find a way to bring in a better offensive center to either push Sheahan down to 4C or develop a more offensive 4th line, then they should be in good shape. Like Sutter and Bones, Sheahan is a solid positional hockey player and rarely makes mistakes with the puck in dangerous areas. He does help insulate and support his linemates to go on offense. I just don't think we can rely on him to center a line that can contribute consistently in the playoffs and we need that to be successful, particularly if our 4C is Rowney or McKegg.

Maybe not.

I think JR is looking for another pivot no matter what happens with Sheahan.

Mckegg and Rowney aren't warm bodies and they get the job done, but they need better depth than those two.

I think the entire board agrees on that, even if a select few want to create strawmans about the situation.

 

[mpp9]

I’ve been a proponent of Kessel running his own line. But I think Geno is starting to really feel comfortable with where Kessel is going to be on the ice. That tying goal last night being a primary example. If Those two finish top ten in scoring, leave them alone.

Maybe go after a winger for Sid if the opportunity presents itself. Evander Kane would bring a lot of the speed and disruption element Sid likes and he’s having a career year heading into perhaps one of his last chances at a big time longterm deal. Use your 1st rounder on him and then look into another center to fit a more traditional bottom six with a loaded top 6.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I’ve been a proponent of Kessel running his own line. But I think Geno is starting to really feel comfortable with where Kessel is going to be on the ice. That tying goal last night being a primary example. If Those two finish top ten in scoring, leave them alone.

Maybe go after a winger for Sid if the opportunity presents itself. Evander Kane would bring a lot of the speed and disruption element Sid likes and he’s having a career year heading into perhaps one of his last chances at a big time longterm deal. Use your 1st rounder on him and then look into another center to fit a more traditional bottom six with a loaded top 6.

I've long held it's Hags that brings out Kessel's skill more than anyone else. Hags can't score to save his life, but his speed creates a ton of disruption on the forecheck and Phil is able to find the holes from that defensive confusion. Plus, while it hasn't been a problem lately, Kessel hasn't exactly been known as a great backchecker and Hags fills that gap for him

Definitely wouldn't break up that line NOW, but I'd be curious about a Kessel-Sheahan-Hags combo

 

[vodeni]

I've long held it's Hags that brings out Kessel's skill more than anyone else. Hags can't score to save his life, but his speed creates a ton of disruption on the forecheck and Phil is able to find the holes from that defensive confusion. Plus, while it hasn't been a problem lately, Kessel hasn't exactly been known as a great backchecker and Hags fills that gap for him

Definitely wouldn't break up that line NOW, but I'd be curious about a Kessel-Sheahan-Hags combo

at this point it would be crazy to break up geno and phil, unles you can find a skilled RW for Geno, thats out of question...

 

[Shaffer]

Plekanec retained for ??

Apparently he’s a good target for a 3c to some fans of different teams.

 

[Shady Machine]

I’ve been a proponent of Kessel running his own line. But I think Geno is starting to really feel comfortable with where Kessel is going to be on the ice. That tying goal last night being a primary example. If Those two finish top ten in scoring, leave them alone.

Maybe go after a winger for Sid if the opportunity presents itself. Evander Kane would bring a lot of the speed and disruption element Sid likes and he’s having a career year heading into perhaps one of his last chances at a big time longterm deal. Use your 1st rounder on him and then look into another center to fit a more traditional bottom six with a loaded top 6.

I agree on Phil-Geno if they keep producing. That goal last night was absurd.

I disagree on Kane. Jake is your left winger for Sid. There is no need to spend serious assets to get another LW'er. You want speed and scoring on Sid's line? Try Sprong before moving significant assets for another winger.

Other than Hagelin's spot, we have plenty of wingers that can produce offense on 3 lines. What we need is a center that can make a 3rd scoring line go.

 

[Riptide]

Kuhnhackl and Hagelin? Why are you ignoring those guys? They're in their 3rd seasons as Penguins.

Why would the Penguins consider doing that? Well, Kuhnhackl sucks and Rowney's only saving grace to keep him on the roster is being a center. And waiving those players doesn't technically mean losing them. I'd waive Rowney and call up Blueger to see what he could do extremely easily. I'm a little more hesitant with Kuhnhackl because I think there's a chance he'd get claimed, but I seriously have a tough time imagining that DiPauli wouldn't be able to provide what Kuhnhackl provides.

Kuhnhackl has yet to play 2 full seasons here. He (like most of the kids) played 1/2 of the season in 15/16, and was up all of last season. And his contract is over at the end of the year - although given how cheap he will be to re-sign, I see him getting a new deal if he's still here).

Hagelin is a different matter - although I do not think a single person on this board was complaining about him in 15/16 after we acquired him. And given that we didn't sign him, other than trying to move him (which isn't likely to be easy), we're likely going to have to suck it up for the rest of this season, and next year. There's worse problems to have.

And even then that doesn't address the fact that regardless of how marginal these players are (and I agree that none are anything special), there's still little reason to try and replace them with kids who've played very little pro hockey, and none at the NHL level. We're typically in the top of the league for man-games-lost... which means those kids will get their chances - why rush things?

 

[Riptide]

I don't understand your insistence on ES production with our top six?

Does Malkin, Crosby, and Kessel producing on a PP lose us games?

Two reasons.
1) Because the vast majority of the games are played at ES - something like a 70-80% split. Which means if your top players are only producing in 25% (or whatever the actual number is) of their icetime when they're on the PP, your team is in trouble.
2) Because you can still win a cup with a shit PP (see Boston 2010*), but the odds of you winning a cup with shit ES scoring is next to nil.

Bottom line is that while good/great special teams can win you games here and there, and will dramatically increase your overall odds, they will not compensate for a team that just isn't scoring at ES. Last time I looked (couple games ago), a full 50% of our goals since acquiring Sheahan had come from the PP. Which would be amazing if we were scoring 4-6 goals a game. But when we're only scoring 1-3, it's a serious issue.

* Probably other examples as well, but that's the one I remember off the top of my head.

Crosby isn't producing. Proper championship caliber teams have the depth to cover for that. Rutherford messed up this summer in terms of addressing our depth and its showing right now.

Also, do you just assume Sheahan, Kuhn, McKegg, Reaves, and Hags are just going to start producing if Crosby does?

As I've pointed out, it's a lot more than just Crosby - although he's easily the biggest culprit. And if it was just him - you'd be right, and we probably would have the depth to cover for that. But it's not - it's our entire top 6, with the exception of Kessel (and even his ES production is down).

And no, I do not think the rest will magically start producing once Crosby and the rest of the top 6 does - at least not to an extent that we (and I include myself) would be satisfied and content with. But at least at that point, the team should be playing better overall hockey, and at least with some of the individuals they can be better assessed then.

 

[Peat]

I've long held it's Hags that brings out Kessel's skill more than anyone else. Hags can't score to save his life, but his speed creates a ton of disruption on the forecheck and Phil is able to find the holes from that defensive confusion. Plus, while it hasn't been a problem lately, Kessel hasn't exactly been known as a great backchecker and Hags fills that gap for him

Definitely wouldn't break up that line NOW, but I'd be curious about a Kessel-Sheahan-Hags combo

I'd be curious, but I agree about not breaking up the line while Geno & Phil are working well together, and would also add that Sheary-Sheahan-Hornqvist is a line that makes a lot of sense on paper.

Which leaves Guentzel-Crosby-Rust, which should work more often than it doesn't, even with Guentzel a little off and Rust not quite the right fit. Don't think Sprong is either.

 

[mpp9]

I agree on Phil-Geno if they keep producing. That goal last night was absurd.

I disagree on Kane. Jake is your left winger for Sid. There is no need to spend serious assets to get another LW'er. You want speed and scoring on Sid's line? Try Sprong before moving significant assets for another winger.

Other than Hagelin's spot, we have plenty of wingers that can produce offense on 3 lines. What we need is a center that can make a 3rd scoring line go.

What if you can’t find said center?

I’m improving my team any way possible. Guentzel has hardly nailed down a job next to Sid this season. And a guy like Kane can also help carry your third line in the absence of a legit center there. He can carry the puck and get shots on net no matter who he’s playing with.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd sooner go after a RW for Crosby, it's just a question of how do the Penguins get that player? I like Sheary-Sheahan-Hornqvist as a line right now and Malkin and Kessel should stay together (also because Sheahan and Kessel don't mesh well together IMO).

You could also add a LWer and have the top line be Guentzel-Crosby-Rust, but I'm not sure I'm that big of a fan of that top line. I actually think Kane would be a phenomenal LWer for Malkin and Kessel, but that doesn't solve the issues with Crosby's line IMO.

I think the primary goal right now should be adding a good offensive bottom-6 center, with the plans of having a 3A and a 3B line in your bottom-6. Have something like Sheary-Center-Hornqvist as your offensive 3rd line and Hagelin-Sheahan-RW as your defensive 3rd line. If Sheahan rebounds and becomes good enough offensively between Sheary and Hornqvist, I still think the Penguins should add a defensively strong 4C.

 

[Shady Machine]

What if you can’t find said center?

I’m improving my team any way possible. Guentzel has hardly nailed down a job next to Sid this season. And a guy like Kane can also help carry your third line in the absence of a legit center there. He can carry the puck and get shots on net no matter who he’s playing with.

To be honest, I don't want to give up a 1st for a rental, but if push came to shove and Kane was the best acquisition to make the Pens cup contender, then I'd do it. I just think you should explore internal options at wing first.

 

[Riptide]

What if you can’t find said center?

I’m improving my team any way possible. Guentzel has hardly nailed down a job next to Sid this season. And a guy like Kane can also help carry your third line in the absence of a legit center there. He can carry the puck and get shots on net no matter who he’s playing with.

Then you wait and conserve assets. There will be rentals and others available later on in the season. Kane is that unicorn type player that we all would love to have. But even if we could get him, I'm not sure we should be paying the price vs spending similar assets on a center.

 

[66-30-33]

If we got Kane I wonder if they would take Hagelin going the other way as part of the deal? extra year they get and might be able to get him scoring again.
Jake-Rust
Kane-Kessel
Sheary-Hornqvist

Sprong can stay in the AHL and develope more.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What do people think about bringing back Letestu to be the other bottom-6 center? I think he'd be a very similar player to Cullen if the Penguins would bring him in to either be the 3C or 4C.

 

[Shady Machine]

What do people think about bringing back Letestu to be the other bottom-6 center? I think he'd be a very similar player to Cullen if the Penguins would bring him in to either be the 3C or 4C.

There are certainly worse options.

 

[SEALBound]

I'd sooner go after a RW for Crosby, it's just a question of how do the Penguins get that player? I like Sheary-Sheahan-Hornqvist as a line right now and Malkin and Kessel should stay together (also because Sheahan and Kessel don't mesh well together IMO).

You could also add a LWer and have the top line be Guentzel-Crosby-Rust, but I'm not sure I'm that big of a fan of that top line. I actually think Kane would be a phenomenal LWer for Malkin and Kessel, but that doesn't solve the issues with Crosby's line IMO.

I think the primary goal right now should be adding a good offensive bottom-6 center, with the plans of having a 3A and a 3B line in your bottom-6. Have something like Sheary-Center-Hornqvist as your offensive 3rd line and Hagelin-Sheahan-RW as your defensive 3rd line. If Sheahan rebounds and becomes good enough offensively between Sheary and Hornqvist, I still think the Penguins should add a defensively strong 4C.

I'd want to at the very least, test Sprong there before exploring other options. We've seen what youthful infusion can go for a team two years in a row now.

What do people think about bringing back Letestu to be the other bottom-6 center? I think he'd be a very similar player to Cullen if the Penguins would bring him in to either be the 3C or 4C.

I'd be down for that depending on the price.