Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Everybody's Building Ships and Boats

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah like I said I can't see Mackey (especially after calling a trade that happened pretty recently) being that far off on this. I feel like some details are being worked through but the basis of a deal is in place. Some of those details are probably an extension with the team he would be going to

I don't even think that this is necessarily true, I just don't think what McKenzie tweeted out invalidates what Mackey was saying. What McKenzie tweeted out was kinda obvious, the Penguins won't trade him if they don't get the return to justify trading him. That's blatantly obvious, there's no reason that should be a surprise. The only thing here that he tweeted out that was against the grain is that Cole being scratched is more of a coach's decision, based on Sullivan scratching him before. I don't believe him on that, I think it's in the grey area, it's not just black and white of whether he's being scratched because of the trade or being scratched because of Sullivan being mad with his play.

 

[Shady Machine]

Except this team lost all of its depth in July. Are people really still arguing that this roster constructed this summer wouldn’t have serious issues?
The reason why I’m so critical of Jimmy is because he went against his agressive mindset this last offseason.

Did you really think a bottom six of Rowney, McKegg, Kuhn, Reaves would be formidable? Shouldn’t he have seen an issue with this team dating back to July 1st??? I feel that he sat on his hands too much this summer.

Hey I agree he may have been better served making the moves in the summer, if they were available, but I never thought that Cole could be a moving piece to solve this problem.

I'm just saying IF he solves this with Cole+ and keeps Sprong around, then you have to give him props.

 

[Ryder71]

Unless we could get Haula, which at this point doesn't seem likely at all, I'd rather deal with another team.

 

[Shady Machine]

Sbisa? Is it a dream or a nightmare?

Sbisa has been playing fairly well for Vegas this year and as a 6-7, he'd be fine. I think pretty highly of Ruh though and am comfortable with him as a regular bottom pairing guy.

 

[Pens x]

Hey I agree he may have been better served making the moves in the summer, if they were available, but I never thought that Cole could be a moving piece to solve this problem.

He didn’t even have to make all of the necessary moves. But for god’s sake, why did he think it was a good idea to play so many shitty bottom six players in this lineup?

 

[jjp66]

I trust JR. Gonna suck not having Cole though.. The playoffs will be interesting assuming Reeves doesn't play a lot.. No Kunitz, no Cole, there's really nobody on the team anymore who will consistently hit people.

 

[Ryder71]

I think Cole is a solid number four. he blocks shots, kills Penalties, is physical, can play both sides and is fairly mobile. I think he'd be a nice get for another team. I'm not sure what he'd command in a trade exactly but it should be something that would move the needle for us. Here's hoping it's a sign and trade to enhance his value all the more. Maybe he's packaged, we'll see. But it will leave us a bit vulnerable defensively in as much as we'd lack a physical presence. Letang can be physical but I don't want him getting injured again.

 

[Shady Machine]

Unless we could get Haula, which at this point doesn't seem likely at all, I'd rather deal with another team.

If you believe the three teams are Colorado, Vegas, and Toronto then the options appear to be:

Tor: Bozak
Vegas: Eakin, Lindberg, ....Haula, ...................Karlsson (in order of GMGM's willingness to trade IMO)
Colorado: Soderberg

IMO, the centers for Vegas are the most attractive. I'd be okay with Bozak as a rental, but I want JR to solve the 3C issue for the next few years.

Soderberg is 32. Not psyched about a 32 year old signed for 3 more years as the 3C.

 

[theicebox]

I trust JR. Gonna suck not having Cole though.. The playoffs will be interesting assuming Reeves doesn't play a lot.. No Kunitz, no Cole, there's really nobody on the team anymore who will consistently hit people.

I have confidence that Phil Kessel will answer the call.

#KevinStevensWho? #OurNewPowerForward #InHonorOfHisFriendRickTocchet

 

[Shady Machine]

He didn’t even have to make all of the necessary moves. But for god’s sake, why did he think it was a good idea to play so many ****ty bottom six players in this lineup?

What are "all of the necessary moves"?

He also didn't play the shitty bottom 6 players. He didn't replace the depth lost in the manner I wanted, but no one is forcing Sully to play Kuhnhackl every night vs Archie.

It's possible JR is blocking call ups that Sully wants due to cap reasons, but I don't have any evidence to suggest that.

I didn't like the Reaves trade so he gets flack from me for that one.

 

[Pens x]

What are "all of the necessary moves"?

He also didn't play the ****ty bottom 6 players. He didn't replace the depth lost in the manner I wanted, but no one is forcing Sully to play Kuhnhackl every night vs Archie.

It's possible JR is blocking call ups that Sully wants due to cap reasons, but I don't have any evidence to suggest that.

I didn't like the Reaves trade so he gets flack from me for that one.

I don’t agree with a lot of Sully’s lineup decisions but it’s not like Sully has a plethora of solid bottom six established NHL players at his disposal. Guys like Archibald aren’t going to make a dramatic difference and the other options aren’t proven NHL players, yet.

I think it’s time to start giving the younger guys a shot but Jimmy didn’t create a good roster to start the season. You can’t afford to play 4 guys nightly who are fringe NHL players and that’s what’s been happening every game. Yea, Sully could adjust the lines, but the personnel largely isn’t there and that falls on Jr.

 

[Ryder71]

If you believe the three teams are Colorado, Vegas, and Toronto then the options appear to be:

Tor: Bozak
Vegas: Eakin, Lindberg, ....Haula, ...................Karlsson (in order of GMGM's willingness to trade IMO)
Colorado: Soderberg

IMO, the centers for Vegas are the most attractive. I'd be okay with Bozak as a rental, but I want JR to solve the 3C issue for the next few years.

Soderberg is 32. Not psyched about a 32 year old signed for 3 more years as the 3C.

Yeah, that looks about right. In order of preference and with contract considerations being taken into account I'd pick Haula, Karlsson, Bozak, Lindberg, Eakin and Soderberg in that order. Once you get below Bozak though it gets dicey.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think Cole is a solid number four. he blocks shots, kills Penalties, is physical, can play both sides and is fairly mobile. I think he'd be a nice get for another team. I'm not sure what he'd command in a trade exactly but it should be something that would move the needle for us. Here's hoping it's a sign and trade to enhance his value all the more. Maybe he's packaged, we'll see. But it will leave us a bit vulnerable defensively in as much as we'd lack a physical presence. Letang can be physical but I don't want him getting injured again.

I don't think Cole is a solid number 4, but I do think all of these are true:

1. Cole played like a solid #4 last year when Letang was out, in both the regular season and playoffs.
2. I believe a team will look at Cole last year and say he's a top-4 defenseman caught in a numbers game in Pittsburgh, because he did play like one last year and played legit top-4 minutes.
3. I believe a team will pay Cole top-4 money on a long term deal to be a middle pair DFD for them.
4. If Cole is coming with an extension, I believe teams will value him like a middle pair DFD under contract, similar to Scandella. The issue with the Scandella comparison is that it was a really weird trade that saw Scandella get moved.

 

[LiquorLicense]

Hagelin isn't going anywhere as a package deal without at least 25% retained, more realistically 40%.

Ian Cole alone will not be fetching us a quality 3rd line center, even when one ignores our cap situation.

 

[Ryder71]

I don't think Cole is a solid number 4, but I do think all of these are true:

1. Cole played like a solid #4 last year when Letang was out, in both the regular season and playoffs.
2. I believe a team will look at Cole last year and say he's a top-4 defenseman caught in a numbers game in Pittsburgh, because he did play like one last year and played legit top-4 minutes.
3. I believe a team will pay Cole top-4 money on a long term deal to be a middle pair DFD for them.
4. If Cole is coming with an extension, I believe teams will value him like a middle pair DFD under contract, similar to Scandella. The issue with the Scandella comparison is that it was a really weird trade that saw Scandella get moved.

I largely agree. I myself see him as a number four, and from what I gather from your post you perceive he has similar value around the league. If that's the case the return should be solid. Particularly if he's signed first. Him winning back to back cups doesn't hurt either.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don’t agree with a lot of Sully’s lineup decisions but it’s not like Sully has a plethora of solid bottom six established NHL players at his disposal. Guys like Archibald aren’t going to make a dramatic difference and the other options aren’t proven NHL players, yet.

I think it’s time to start giving the younger guys a shot but Jimmy didn’t create a good roster to start the season. You can’t afford to play 4 guys nightly who are fringe NHL players and that’s what’s been happening every game. Yea, Sully could adjust the lines, but the personnel largely isn’t there and that falls on Jr.

Some of this is fair, but to be honest, I think a lot of the problems take care of themselves if you solve the center issue. Kuhn and Rowney were fine depth players when the centers were Bones and Cullen. I agree that adding Reaves along with Kuhn or Rowney is a bad winger combo and have said as much all off season. Adding Reaves is okay in theory if you have a quality 4th line center. Without that, it just makes your 4th line a specialty line that can't be trusted to take a regular, semi consistent shift.

JR got his 4C in Sheahan. If he can get his 3C, then we will be in fine shape and a little hot streak will put this team back in division lead contention. That's the "glass half full" version. A botched trade and a losing streak could put this team out of serious playoff contention. I think the glass half full is more likely if JR lands a quality center.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

How is that a made up rule? Jimmy is going to look like such an idiot if they don’t make a trade involving Cole. If you are going to do this you better be damn sure something is all but agreed to.

Other than because you say so?

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't get how it looks bad on anybody to scratch a bottom pairing d-man to play a different bottom pairing d-man.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I largely agree. I myself see him as a number four, and from what I gather from your post you perceive he has similar value around the league. If that's the case the return should be solid. Particularly if he's signed first. Him winning back to back cups doesn't hurt either.

I don't view him as a #4, but I have no doubts that teams out there view him as a #4. If teams only viewed him as a bottom pair guy, there wouldn't be talks of him doubling his current salary with multiple teams being interested in him. The return for Cole is definitely going to be solid, because they wouldn't trade him if the return wasn't solid. They'll bring back a good 3rd liner for him, which is looking like a center if I had to guess.

 

[Pens x]

Other than because you say so?

So you see nothing wrong if the Pens don’t trade Cole? That wouldn’t be a huge screw up on the Pens’ part? We will just pretend it never happened?

 

[Shady Machine]

So you see nothing wrong if the Pens don’t trade Cole? That wouldn’t be a huge screw up on the Pens’ part?

It will take a little patching up in the locker room, but nothing that hasn't been patched up before. JR is likely pushing the trade stuff in the media, but the players know this is a business and Cole wins either way in the end (either signs a big extension with a team he's interested in or signs a big contract on July 1st). He loves the city and the team. He's won two cups here playing an important role. If they are contending again, he's not going to be a major locker room cancer or anything.

To me, this would be a bigger issue if a trade doesn't go down and Cole wasn't a UFA at the end of the season.

 

[Ogrezilla]

So you see nothing wrong if the Pens don’t trade Cole? That wouldn’t be a huge screw up on the Pens’ part? We will just pretend it never happened?

have I missed the team actually doing something around the Cole situation other than scratching him?

 

[Shady Machine]

have I missed the team actually doing something around the Cole situation other than scratching him?

Openly pursuing a trade with Cole and his agent cooperating. If a trade busts, it will be a little awkward, but nothing that can't be patched up.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Openly pursuing a trade with Cole and his agent cooperating. If a trade busts, it will be a little awkward, but nothing that can't be patched up.

gotcha. Yeah, this isn't like sitting on Duchene after trade talks. Cole is a guy that has been scratched at some point almost every year of his career.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I don't think Cole is a solid number 4, but I do think all of these are true:

1. Cole played like a solid #4 last year when Letang was out, in both the regular season and playoffs.
2. I believe a team will look at Cole last year and say he's a top-4 defenseman caught in a numbers game in Pittsburgh, because he did play like one last year and played legit top-4 minutes.
3. I believe a team will pay Cole top-4 money on a long term deal to be a middle pair DFD for them.
4. If Cole is coming with an extension, I believe teams will value him like a middle pair DFD under contract, similar to Scandella. The issue with the Scandella comparison is that it was a really weird trade that saw Scandella get moved.

This makes sense, to a team that needs that role filled, Cole has solid value. I cannot see a deal with TOR, the pieces just don't fit great, and neither team wants to help the other. Cole's game works better in the west, and JR has motivation to send him there. Could do something like Karlsson + Sbisa @ 1/2 for Cole, waive McKegg to get under the cap. Not sure how much that helps VGK, and they use up one of their retentions which I'd expect them to use at the deadline to get futures, but oh well. Though a team like COL might want some leadership in the room I suppose.