Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Countdown to October Part 2 (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

[Dipsy Doodle]

Sometimes people don't produce because they don't get enough good shots on net, and they don't get enough good shots on net because they're not good enough.

Sometimes people don't produce despite there being plenty of good shots on net, because they're unlucky or because they're against a hot goaltender.

Honestly, most of the Pens fell into the latter in the Washington series. A 98.7 save percentage over 192 minutes when not facing Sid/Jake, despite there being 31 HDCF, is just not normal. But Sheary particularly fell into that category.

And going around sitting people for the latter is, by and large, bad coaching.

This wasn't a Washington or playoffs-only phenomenon, Peat. Sheary's production sucked relative to his role all season long, and his terrible playoff production should have been the tipping point that got him riding pine.

 

[Turin]

Sometimes people don't produce because they don't get enough good shots on net, and they don't get enough good shots on net because they're not good enough.

Sometimes people don't produce despite there being plenty of good shots on net, because they're unlucky or because they're against a hot goaltender.

Honestly, most of the Pens fell into the latter in the Washington series. A 98.7 save percentage over 192 minutes when not facing Sid/Jake, despite there being 31 HDCF, is just not normal. But Sheary particularly fell into that category.

And going around sitting people for the latter is, by and large, bad coaching.

Did Sheary fall into that category in 17 too? Limited playoff contributions kind of became his MO.

 

[Gurglesons]

Which adds up to fewer points than any Pens regular but Kuhn over the duration of the playoffs. Are you being deliberately obtuse now?

Let's rehash why Kunitz didn't stink in his last year here because of his fancy stats too. That was a good one.

But, nobody in the bottom six produced in the Capitals series. So, why are you using production from those forwards as a point?

Sheary had a .33PPG going into the Capitals series playing on the third line. Why would you bench that?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Kessel was a non-shooting bad passing mess on the PP who Washington blatantly ignored who could have been replaced by any competent RH shot. As I told you before.

And I disagreed, as I told you before. His production counters your narrative.

 

[Gurglesons]

Did Sheary fall into that category in 17 too? Limited playoff contributions kind of became his MO.

Sheary was sat in 2017. Once again, Peat and I aren’t trying to defend the fact that Sheary is a streaky, less than ideal player. But, statistically he was one of our better players in both the Flyers and Capitals series. And scratching him because we have a prospect that hasn’t played in the NHL for 40 games at that point, in an insanely tight series would be terribly short sighted.

 

[davemess]

Jake Sid Sprong
Rust Malkin Kessel
Hagelin Brassard Hornqvist
Cullen Sheahan Simon/ZAR/Hayes

That is the lineup I would like to see opening night

Think that makes a lot of sense as a starting point to be honest.

I would see Sprong, Simon & maybe even ZAR rotating through the 1st line depending on who is playing best at any given time as the season progresses.

Could also see Geno & Brass exchanging their pair of wingers at times as well depending on how things go.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

But, nobody in the bottom six produced in the Capitals series. So, why are you using production from those forwards as a point?

Sheary had a .33PPG going into the Capitals series playing on the third line. Why would you bench that?

Because every other regular winger except Kuhn was producing more (and he was the other regular who deserved to take a seat). This isn't that hard, man.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

No way. IF Risk Nash would sign that deal, JR would be stupid not to sign him.

...but my irrational hatred of Rick Nash?



Until the day I’m proven right.

 

[Turin]

Sheary was sat in 2017. Once again, Peat and I aren’t trying to defend the fact that Sheary is a streaky, less than ideal player. But, statistically he was one of our better players in both the Flyers and Capitals series. And scratching him because we have a prospect that hasn’t played in the NHL for 40 games at that point, in an insanely tight series would be terribly short sighted.

I could go either way on that. You have two options, you can sit Phil or Sheary for Sprong. Both are wingers and both are terrible defensively, but we all know what happened with Phil. If you’re gonna sit somebody Sheary does make sense. It also makes sense that Sprong doesn’t play.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I could go either way on that. You have two options, you can sit Phil or Sheary for Sprong. Both are wingers and both are terrible defensively, but we all know what happened with Phil. If you’re gonna sit somebody Sheary does make sense. It also makes sense that Sprong doesn’t play.

The problem was Sullivan ever making those his two options.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

My God, we can't be going on about an ex-Penguin at this point can we?

I mean, debate what line Simon should be on.

Talk about which center plays wing.

Whose the actual back-up to Murr?

Will Geno sack check Sid again this year?

So many other good things out there..

 

[Turin]

The problem was Sullivan ever making those his two options.

Yea, I’d have sat Simon/Zar actually. Probably not winning the series either way with the goaltending they got honestly

 

[Peat]

This wasn't a Washington or playoffs-only phenomenon, Peat. Sheary's production sucked relative to his role all season long, and his terrible playoff production should have been the tipping point that got him riding pine.

ES production sucking was true of most of the team and his assist totals probably look fine on a team that can score at ES. But yeah, he maybe shoulda rode pine at some point in the regular season. But not by Washington, when there were other players who were worse.

Did Sheary fall into that category in 17 too? Limited playoff contributions kind of became his MO.

I don't know off of the top of my head but I'm guessing no. But, anyhoo, yes, not producing as strongly as hoped for in the playoffs was kinda his thing and that's why he's not here.

Ironically, probably his best play off series in terms of on ice performance was his least productive.

And I disagreed, as I told you before. His production counters your narrative.

And I disagree right back. I'm not sure there's a lot of productive discussion left in this one.

 

[Peat]

Sheary was sat in 2017. Once again, Peat and I aren’t trying to defend the fact that Sheary is a streaky, less than ideal player. But, statistically he was one of our better players in both the Flyers and Capitals series. And scratching him because we have a prospect that hasn’t played in the NHL for 40 games at that point, in an insanely tight series would be terribly short sighted.

Actually he was pretty darn bad against the Flyers.

But yes. A statement on a moment in time is not a statement on a player full stop. Normally the idea of benching Kessel before Sheary is loony bin material. Those six games however, were very different.

 

[TimmyD]

Hossa to Arizona.... I wonder if his allergy will flare up in the desert

 

[Tom Hanks]

Hossa to Arizona.... I wonder if his allergy will flare up in the desert

Arizona won’t be up against the cap so it won’t need to flare up

All of a sudden Chicago has cap space. Kunitz bringing luck wherever he goes (except for Tampa lol)

 

[TimmyD]

Arizona won’t be up against the cap so it won’t need to flare up

All of a sudden Chicago has cap space. Kunitz bringing luck wherever he goes (except for Tampa lol)

That’s true.... Kessel to Chicago will now be a big rumor I bet

 

[Andy99]

Hossa to Arizona.... I wonder if his allergy will flare up in the desert

No, the dry heat supposedly is good for allergies...I have no doubt that’s the only reason Chicago would part with him....

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

ES production sucking was true of most of the team and his assist totals probably look fine on a team that can score at ES. But yeah, he maybe shoulda rode pine at some point in the regular season. But not by Washington, when there were other players who were worse.

This muddies the water. Sheary wasn't just part of a team that struggled to score at ES, he was 10th in ES production in the regular season despite being - as Sid's most frequent linemate - in the most advantageous position to produce of anyone on the team. He wasn't a symptom of the problem, he was a catalyst for it.

When you score 30 points as Crosby's winger and then follow it up with those putrid playoff numbers, a place in the press box is long overdue. Fancy stats that don't manifest into anything useful because of a consistent lack of execution isn't valid "healthy scratch armour", especially when your bottom 6 can't buy a goal and you have one of the best goal-scoring prospects in the league waiting in the wings.

And I disagree right back. I'm not sure there's a lot of productive discussion left in this one.

Not much to say except there's data to support my position that Kessel at least provided some tangible benefit to the team.

 

[Gurglesons]

I could go either way on that. You have two options, you can sit Phil or Sheary for Sprong. Both are wingers and both are terrible defensively, but we all know what happened with Phil. If you’re gonna sit somebody Sheary does make sense. It also makes sense that Sprong doesn’t play.

How do you sit Sheary a LW in the playoffs for Sprong a RW?

Oh, move Rust to the LW so, you can have a player with 16 or so NHL games under his belt because fans need something to blame singularly instead of realize Washington outplayed us, got better goaltender, got better depth scoring and took advantage of shoddy defensive play from our forwards and especially our defensemen. Not to mention they were just completely exhausted.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Arizona won’t be up against the cap so it won’t need to flare up

All of a sudden Chicago has cap space. Kunitz bringing luck wherever he goes (except for Tampa lol)

Nah, he would have gone on LTIR and freed up the cap space for Chicago that way. They just dumped the contract and having to deal with it.

 

[mpp9]

So Madden’s talking about Simon training with Sid and how he wants him on his line.

Hey, if Sid can turn him into something, sweet. We actually have the depth now for him to try and KCD it again.

Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Rust-Brassard-PH
Cullen-Sheahan-Sprong

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

How do you sit Sheary a LW in the playoffs for Sprong a RW?

Oh, move Rust to the LW so, you can have a player with 16 or so NHL games under his belt because fans need something to blame singularly instead of realize Washington outplayed us, got better goaltender, got better depth scoring and took advantage of shoddy defensive play from our forwards and especially our defensemen. Not to mention they were just completely exhausted.

Well, that's what the move would be trying to address. You know, taking out players who don't score for players who might.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

My God, we can't be going on about an ex-Penguin at this point can we?

...
Will Geno sack check Sid again this year?

So many other good things out there..

Wut?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So Madden’s talking about Simon training with Sid and how he wants him on his line.

Hey, if Sid can turn him into something, sweet. We actually have the depth now for him to try and KCD it again.

Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Rust-Brassard-PH
Cullen-Sheahan-Sprong

I'd like to see Simon on Sid's line. Could work.

Kind of buggers up everything else with the 600 RWs we already have, but whatever.