Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Countdown to October Part 2 (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

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Gurglesons

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Well, that's what the move would be trying to address. You know, taking out players who don't score for players who might.

Show me another example of a team moving in a player like Sprong who hasn’t played since January in the NHL into a do or die playoff series from Game 3 on.

That doesn’t happen. The fact they put Simon in was a minor miracle and look how badly he F’d up.

The Caps series was too close to justify a move like putting Sprong next to an injured Brassard or on a defensive line like our fourth.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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Show me another example of a team moving in a player like Sprong who hasn’t played since January in the NHL into a do or die playoff series from Game 3 on.

That doesn’t happen. The fact they put Simon in was a minor miracle and look how badly he F’d up.

I didn't say it had to have been from Game 3 on. That wasn't anything like the beginning of Sheary's problems.

Just this year Jordan Greenway - drafted later than Sprong in the same year and with zero pro experience - was inserted into the Wild line-up with just 6 games left in the regular season and had a very good playoffs.
 

Gurglesons

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I didn't say it had to have been from Game 3 on. That wasn't anything like the beginning of Sheary's problems.

Just this year Jordan Greenway - drafted later than Sprong in the same year and with zero pro experience - was inserted into the Wild line-up with just 6 games left in the regular season and had a very good playoffs.

So, he was playing on the roster prior to the playoffs and they put him in? He wasn’t a healthy scratch or AHLer since January.
 

Malkinstheman

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If Brass and Kessel can develop some chemistry, our Forward lines will be incredible. I love all the forwards we have for next season, just a matter of finding the right fit for everyone.

Guentzel-Sid-Simon
Hags-Geno-Horny
Rust-Brass-Kessel
Cullen-Sheahan-ZAR/Sprong

Just gotta see if Simon can stick with Sid and how Brass-Kessel works.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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So, he was playing on the roster prior to the playoffs and they put him in? He wasn’t a healthy scratch or AHLer since January.

WITH NO PRO EXPERIENCE. And Sprong happened to be tearing it up in the AHL playing the same system they use in Pittsburgh.

I don't have a stake in your ad hoc "3rd game in the 2nd round" prerequisite here. The point is that players as young as Sprong, with less pro experience, were able to come in and do well.
 

mpp9

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I'd like to see Simon on Sid's line. Could work.

Kind of buggers up everything else with the 600 RWs we already have, but whatever.

Rust opposite PH on a third line works for me. I think that’s how you solve the RW/LW issue internally.
 

Tom Hanks

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If Brass and Kessel can develop some chemistry, our Forward lines will be incredible. I love all the forwards we have for next season, just a matter of finding the right fit for everyone.

Guentzel-Sid-Simon
Hags-Geno-Horny
Rust-Brass-Kessel
Cullen-Sheahan-ZAR/Sprong

Just gotta see if Simon can stick with Sid and how Brass-Kessel works.

I think that’s how we might start, depending if Rust on LW works with their game plan.
 

Tom Hanks

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WITH NO PRO EXPERIENCE. And Sprong happened to be tearing it up in the AHL playing the same system they use in Pittsburgh.

I don't have a stake in your ad hoc "3rd game in the 2nd round" prerequisite here. The point is that players as young as Sprong, with less pro experience, were able to come in and do well.

Some don’t and I highly doubt it would have changed the outcome.
 

Gurglesons

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WITH NO PRO EXPERIENCE. And Sprong happened to be tearing it up in the AHL playing the same system they use in Pittsburgh.

I don't have a stake in your ad hoc "3rd game in the 2nd round" prerequisite here. The point is that players as young as Sprong, with less pro experience, were able to come in and do well.

I don’t doubt that Sprong could’ve been an effective player this year. But, Sprong did get his chance in the roster (in our staffs eyes). Did not impress the coaching staff and therefore was a huge long shot to play over ZAR, Kuhnhackl, or Simon in the playoffs as all of those players were actually in the NHL heading into the playoffs.

Using a player that had his first taste of NHL play prior to the playoffs and impressed his coaching staff to be a utility player in the playoffs is a completely different situation.

Sprong’s usage this year is not the sin some people want to make it. If he comes in next year, puts up solid production and is scratched after a few mistakes, I’ll listen and likely agree. I see nothing in his coaching history here that proves Sullivan will do that though.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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Some don’t and I highly doubt it would have changed the outcome.

Some don't, but you never know unless you try. Sticking with what doesn't work because you're afraid to try what might not work isn't a great formula for success. That was the argument for keeping Kunitz on the 1st line and demoting Guentzel back in '16-'17.
 

Gurglesons

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Some don't, but you never know unless you try. Sticking with what doesn't work because you're afraid to try what might not work isn't a great formula for success. That was the argument for keeping Kunitz on the 1st line and demoting Guentzel back in '16-'17.

Man, good point. Guentzel’s development has been completely butchered by our coaching staff, can’t believe I overlooked that.
 

Tom Hanks

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Some don't, but you never know unless you try. Sticking with what doesn't work because you're afraid to try what might not work isn't a great formula for success. That was the argument for keeping Kunitz on the 1st line and demoting Guentzel back in '16-'17.

That’s not the only option though. It’s the only one you see.

Sticking with something that has worked in the past hoping it will turn around over a young player who wasn’t too successful in his first call up then coming straight into the playoffs against one of the best teams in the league is how it was probably viewed.

They wanted Jake to work on some things after his first call up. He did and came back better. He also played another 35 (ish) regular season games before playoffs.
 
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Dipsy Doodle

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I don’t doubt that Sprong could’ve been an effective player this year. But, Sprong did get his chance in the roster (in our staffs eyes). Did not impress the coaching staff and therefore was a huge long shot to play over ZAR, Kuhnhackl, or Simon in the playoffs as all of those players were actually in the NHL heading into the playoffs.

Using a player that had his first taste of NHL play prior to the playoffs and impressed his coaching staff to be a utility player in the playoffs is a completely different situation.

Sprong’s usage this year is not the sin some people want to make it. If he comes in next year, puts up solid production and is scratched after a few mistakes, I’ll listen and likely agree. I see nothing in his coaching history here that proves Sullivan will do that though.

Yeah, I agree with the logic that was at work there. I just think that sticking with what was safe and familiar in spite of their obvious struggles was the coaching staff's downfall this year. I'll always advocate that when the established bar is that low, you've got very little to lose and a lot to gain by trying a different option with promise.

Man, good point. Guentzel development has been completely butchered by our coaching staff, can’t believe I overlooked that.

That wasn't the point. The point was that it was a dumb argument in the first place, and if they had stuck with it we would have been without a dynamic young talent for our Cup defense.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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That’s not the only option though. It’s the only one you see.

Sticking with something that has worked in the past hoping it will turn around over a young player who wasn’t too successful in his first call up then coming straight into the playoffs against one of the best teams in the league is how it was probably viewed.

They wanted Jake to work on some things after his first call up. He did and came back better. He also played another 35 (ish) regular season games before playoffs.

He didn't get better haha. The kid had 3 goals and 4 points in his first 5 games. I'm not sure what sort of sea change people think happened in that month and a half.

I'm sure the way you framed the Sprong situation is the way the coaching staff saw it though. I just think it's wrong and what led to a stale, unproductive bottom 6.
 

Gurglesons

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Yeah, I agree with the logic that was at work there. I just think that sticking with what was safe and familiar in spite of their obvious struggles was the coaching staff's downfall this year. I'll always advocate that when the established bar is that low, you've got very little to lose and a lot to gain by trying a different option with promise.

That wasn't the point. The point was that it was a dumb argument in the first place, and if they had stuck with it we would have been without a dynamic young talent for our Cup defense.

Kunitz found himself on the top six throughout those cup runs.

It is just weird to me that people are so insane about Sprong being treated incorrectly. We’ve developed over 3/4ths of our roster. Just trust in the process for a team that has two cup wins in three years since the staff took over.
 
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Dipsy Doodle

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Kunitz found himself on the top six throughout those cup runs.

It is just weird to me that people are so insane about Sprong being treated incorrectly. We’ve developed over 3/4ths of our roster. Just trust in the process for a team that has two cup wins in three years since the staff took over.

I don't think Sprong will be any worse off for not playing last year. I do think the team was worse off for prioritizing options who had struggled all year long.
 

Tom Hanks

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He didn't get better haha. The kid had 3 goals and 4 points in his first 5 games. I'm not sure what sort of sea change people think happened in that month and a half.

There’s more to hockey than that. They saw some things and said to work on stuff that will make him a better player and also with the game plan.

He came in originally for an injury too so there needed to be a roster spot as well. It all worked out.

You compare Jake’s situation to Sprong but maybe they think Jake is a better player and was ready but Sprong wasn’t yet and it was better for him in the long run. Not all young players are the same.
 

Turin

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Ya’ll ever just step back from the lineups and bask in the Cups and superstars? I don’t because I have a very specific axe to grind, but I would otherwise. Been some good shit.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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There’s more to hockey than that. They saw some things and said to work on stuff that will make him a better player and also with the game plan.

He came in originally for an injury too so there needed to be a roster spot as well. It all worked out.

You compare Jake’s situation to Sprong but maybe they think Jake is a better player and was ready but Sprong wasn’t yet and it was better for him in the long run. Not all young players are the same.

I know, but Guentzel wasn't any different than he had been. It's like when DB used to come out with all the reasons why Despres needed more seasoning and how much Scuderi was doing on the pairing. Story checks out. :rolleyes:

And you're right, Sprong isn't Guentzel. But he wouldn't have to be anything close to that to be better than a seat-filler like '17-'18 Sheary. He only had to be as productive as he was in his first call-up.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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Ya’ll ever just step back from the lineups and bask in the Cups and superstars? I don’t because I have a very specific axe to grind, but I would otherwise. Been some good ****.

Always. I just enjoy bickering.

Sprong lost his job to Dominik Simon. Not Sheary.

I'm not responsible for the coaching staff's biases. I'm only concerned about who should be playing and who shouldn't.
 

Gurglesons

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I know, but Guentzel wasn't any different than he had been. It's like when DB used to come out with all the reasons why Despres needed more seasoning and how much Scuderi was doing on the pairing. Story checks out. :rolleyes:

And you're right, Sprong isn't Guentzel. But he wouldn't have to be anything close to that to be better than a seat-filler like '17-'18 Sheary. He only had to be as productive as he was in his first call-up.

17-18 Sheary was 4th in ES goal production? I really don’t get this argument you are trying to perpetuate?
 
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