Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Countdown to October Part 2 (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

[AverageJoeFan]

He was really blatantly not that player in the play-offs. He would not shoot, his passing was off, and its a testament to the other players that they collected points at all. There's a reason we all thought he had an injury.

So yes, any other RH shot could have.

And yes, he was worse than Sheary. And no, what they did for the team was not reflected accurately on the scoreboard.



A problem he shared with everyone else there. Sheary was making things happen and he and Brassard looked the most likely of the other lines to actually score a goal. It's a big knock on them that they couldn't actually do so, but that knock's on everyone else.

True, it was a perfect storm of bad and non-production from lots of others. Minus Jake and Sid.

 

[Peat]

True, it was a perfect storm of bad and non-production from lots of others. Minus Jake and Sid.

I'm not sure why I'm still in this argument tbh. The only sane thing to do with last year's playoffs is accept that sometimes everything will go wrong at exactly the wrong moment, and when it does there's not a lot of point in trying to take lessons from statistical anomalies. That's what happened and the fact we still nearly made it happen with that happening is astounding.

But either I'm bored, or I'm too argumentative, because I'll nearly always fall for an argument about the details, particularly when it comes to the consistent underrating of Sheary's playoff record.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

A problem he shared with everyone else there. Sheary was making things happen and he and Brassard looked the most likely of the other lines to actually score a goal. It's a big knock on them that they couldn't actually do so, but that knock's on everyone else.

I agree with this. He looked dangerous and like he had some chemistry with Brassard. Neither of them could finish and it was a serious problem but was a hallmark of the season’s problems. Other issues aside, I think they were a really beat up team. Malkin was hurt, Rust didn’t look right, Brassard was hurt, Kessel looked really messed up, etc.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

I'm not sure why I'm still in this argument tbh. The only sane thing to do with last year's playoffs is accept that sometimes everything will go wrong at exactly the wrong moment, and when it does there's not a lot of point in trying to take lessons from statistical anomalies. That's what happened and the fact we still nearly made it happen with that happening is astounding.

But either I'm bored, or I'm too argumentative, because I'll nearly always fall for an argument about the details, particularly when it comes to the consistent underrating of Sheary's playoff record.

I mean, we are all bored..no hockey..always using the "what ifs". Sheary's gone, so really all moot at this point. I think none of us want to accept it. We're spoiled to some degree. But in all, it's good healthy conversation and I love seeing that there are still people I can chat with about something I love. Even if it is argumentative and passe.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not sure why I'm still in this argument tbh. The only sane thing to do with last year's playoffs is accept that sometimes everything will go wrong at exactly the wrong moment, and when it does there's not a lot of point in trying to take lessons from statistical anomalies. That's what happened and the fact we still nearly made it happen with that happening is astounding.

But either I'm bored, or I'm too argumentative, because I'll nearly always fall for an argument about the details, particularly when it comes to the consistent underrating of Sheary's playoff record.

I feel like we are both not fans of Sheary and want Sprong in the line up, but like the way people talk about Sheary like Kunitz before him is just completely wrong and diminishing to a solid support player on two cup teams.

But, I agree I have no idea why I defend Sheary so much either.

 

[Peat]

Problem is neither you or I have followed the situation closely enough over the last year to have any idea one way or the other. He clearly came back too early before and admitted to hiding symptoms. Since then, there is no evidence that he ISN'T healthy, so I won't speculate one way or the other. Remember everyone thought Crosby should quit hockey and he seems to be doing just fine.

Fair point - just that I get why people are emotionally opposed to his continuing involvement in the sport.

And, while people have said that about Crosby (see also all the "But Skinner misses a bunch of games!" etc.etc.), Crosby wasn't brought out by a team as a result of concussion based issues. I think that puts a different slant on it.

 

[Pancakes]

Remember everyone thought Crosby should quit hockey and he seems to be doing just fine.

For now. I wouldn't be surprised to see Crosby have debilitating CTE problems in his 50s like so many other NHLers have had.

Concussions are nothing to be taken lightly. For guys that have had multiple concussions, they're risking a lot by continuing to play. I hope Crosby and others who have had that scenario have thought this stuff through.

I'm not saying Crosby (or others) shouldn't play because of concussions. It's their body. I'm just saying, I hope these guys realize the potential for problems later in life. They're getting to live a dream, and make a lot of money, and maybe for some people that's enough even knowing what might come later in life.

And maybe by the time Sid and others are in their 50s we'll have treatments progressed far enough to better manage the issues they might face.

I just hope they're thinking about that stuff and not just rushing back to play simply because they're symptom free.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He was really blatantly not that player in the play-offs. He would not shoot, his passing was off, and its a testament to the other players that they collected points at all. There's a reason we all thought he had an injury.

So yes, any other RH shot could have.

And yes, he was worse than Sheary. And no, what they did for the team was not reflected accurately on the scoreboard.

It's a testament to Kessel's talent that he could be so far below par and still rack up points like he did. When you're talking about offense-only players, there's no circumstance where one who scores 9 points in 12 games was worse than one who scored 2 in 12. It's nonsense.

Sheary did nothing. Kessel did something.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Because they hold a belief/deep suspicion that he is not in fact healthy enough to be playing hockey and that medical reports saying he can are doing a huge amount of damage to his future life.

Which I find credible. Concussions are not a place where team medical staff hold a flawless unblemished record.



Whole play-off stats are kinda misleading as when we're talking problems, we're talking problems against Washington.

He had 4 in 6 against Washington, 0 of which were at ES. The idea of Kessel on the third line is he draws the easy match up because teams are scared of Sid and Geno. He didn't exploit it in any shape, way or form. His inability to do so is a big part of why we went out. And the stats backed up the eye test imo - you could have replaced him with a traffic cone at ES against Washington and lost nothing in offence.

4 power play points is good but, going from the eye test, he looked such an impediment. Washington clearly were cheating away from him because he wouldn't shoot.

I'm not sure replacing him with Sprong was the right idea, but Kessel vs Washington was really bad. I don't think that should be forgotten or excused away with stats from the Philly series.



Sheary was far more likely to make a difference than Kessel vs Washington. Far, far more likely.

His decision to make, hoping he is too injured to play so he doesnt get reinjured so you can feel better about...actually im not exactly sure what...is weird, fear based, and again not really anyone else's concern. He is a grown up.

 

[Shady Machine]

Fair point - just that I get why people are emotionally opposed to his continuing involvement in the sport.

And, while people have said that about Crosby (see also all the "But Skinner misses a bunch of games!" etc.etc.), Crosby wasn't brought out by a team as a result of concussion based issues. I think that puts a different slant on it.

For sure. I'm still not exactly sure why they were allowed to do that.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

For now. I wouldn't be surprised to see Crosby have debilitating CTE problems in his 50s like so many other NHLers have had.

Concussions are nothing to be taken lightly. For guys that have had multiple concussions, they're risking a lot by continuing to play. I hope Crosby and others who have had that scenario have thought this stuff through.

I'm not saying Crosby (or others) shouldn't play because of concussions. It's their body. I'm just saying, I hope these guys realize the potential for problems later in life. They're getting to live a dream, and make a lot of money, and maybe for some people that's enough even knowing what might come later in life.

And maybe by the time Sid and others are in their 50s we'll have treatments progressed far enough to better manage the issues they might face.

I just hope they're thinking about that stuff and not just rushing back to play simply because they're symptom free.

No one should be surprised by any player having CTE or other neurological problems in the future, imo. I wouldn’t be surprised if the rate was rising in general given the speed of the game and how many games they can play. CTE isn’t just a question of big hits and diagnosed concussions. It’s the consistent and frequent smaller abuses. If those smaller abuses are coming from something common then there’s a major problem.

The players now have most likely done a lot of damage already, tbh. You’ve got to wonder how much stopping at 30 would preserve and it’s likely the best treatment is early detection and prevention.

 

[Shady Machine]

For now. I wouldn't be surprised to see Crosby have debilitating CTE problems in his 50s like so many other NHLers have had.

Concussions are nothing to be taken lightly. For guys that have had multiple concussions, they're risking a lot by continuing to play. I hope Crosby and others who have had that scenario have thought this stuff through.

I'm not saying Crosby (or others) shouldn't play because of concussions. It's their body. I'm just saying, I hope these guys realize the potential for problems later in life. They're getting to live a dream, and make a lot of money, and maybe for some people that's enough even knowing what might come later in life.

And maybe by the time Sid and others are in their 50s we'll have treatments progressed far enough to better manage the issues they might face.

I just hope they're thinking about that stuff and not just rushing back to play simply because they're symptom free.

I don't disagree and none of us know what's really going on personally with any of these players. I would just say that most of those players that have come out to discuss major problems later in life, at least the stories I've read, were enforcers who were self medicating and continuing to play through the symptoms. Crosby sat out over a year, if I recall correctly, and hasn't had major issues since. Of course, I'm far from a medical expert on this stuff so no idea how this impacts him later in life.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

And now for something completely different:

Brassard-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Hagelin-Sheahan-Kessel
Simon-Cullen-Sprong

 

[Gurglesons]

For now. I wouldn't be surprised to see Crosby have debilitating CTE problems in his 50s like so many other NHLers have had.

Concussions are nothing to be taken lightly. For guys that have had multiple concussions, they're risking a lot by continuing to play. I hope Crosby and others who have had that scenario have thought this stuff through.

I'm not saying Crosby (or others) shouldn't play because of concussions. It's their body. I'm just saying, I hope these guys realize the potential for problems later in life. They're getting to live a dream, and make a lot of money, and maybe for some people that's enough even knowing what might come later in life.

And maybe by the time Sid and others are in their 50s we'll have treatments progressed far enough to better manage the issues they might face.

I just hope they're thinking about that stuff and not just rushing back to play simply because they're symptom free.

Despres was technically bought out. But, it was implied that this wasn’t a team only decision.

 

[PensandCaps]

Why would anyone hope for that?

Who would wish for someone to play for that trainwreck of Montreal?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

And now for something completely different:

Brassard-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
Hagelin-Sheahan-Kessel
Simon-Cullen-Sprong

 

[Tom Hanks]

Despres was technically bought out. But, it was implied that this wasn’t a team only decision.

There was something weird about that buyout and not in a good way. He should have been on LTIR.

 

[PensandCaps]

Malkin-Crosby-Sprong
Guentzel-Brassard-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Sheahan-Kessel
Simon-Cullen-ZAR

we have enough cups, let's just get Crosby and Malkin a bunch of points.

 

[Riptide]

The question wasn't Sprong or Phil. An injured Kessel was better than a lot of options on our roster.

The question was Sprong or Sheary/Kuhnhackl, who both stunk out loud in their respective roles all year and were given far more rope from Sully than they deserved. Their playoff results speak for themselves.

Yep Sheary sucked so bad, he only led our entire group of forwards in SAT% - by multiple points. And if you focus in on just the Washington series, he and Kuhnhackl were #2 and #3.

 

[Shady Machine]

There was something weird about that buyout and not in a good way. He should have been on LTIR.

I'm assuming he agreed to it on some level. Possibly because he intentionally hid the symptoms or something. I agree it seemed fishy.

 

[Riptide]

If Maatta could skate at even an average level, he'd be great. But his skating issues are absolutely glaring and detrimental. I don't think he has a ton of value, but if we could get a middle pairing guy who could skate I'd move him in a heartbeat. It's a testament to his hockey IQ that he's even able to play at this level because his skating is atrocious.

So detrimental that he only had a couple goals scored on Murray while Maatta was on the ice (at ES).

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yep Sheary sucked so bad, he only led our entire group of forwards in SAT% - by multiple points. And if you focus in on just the Washington series, he and Kuhnhackl were #2 and #3.

SAT doesn't mean shit if Kuhn and Sheary only scored 2 points in 24 games. Neither of them should have been regulars.

The Caps were 24th in SAT this year, but they had players who could, you know, score.

 

[Riptide]

Despres was technically bought out. But, it was implied that this wasn’t a team only decision.

He couldn't have been bought out without his consent.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I'm assuming he agreed to it on some level. Possibly because he intentionally hid the symptoms or something. I agree it seemed fishy.

Yeah I think he got taken advantage of. He probably wasn’t thinking clearly due to the concussion and might have thought he’d be fine. That’s part of the injury. Those monitoring him probably should have been able to pick something up that he wasn’t right.

Feels like he was coerced into ageeeing to be bought out. He played in the KHL so hopefully he’s good to go again.

 

[Riptide]

SAT doesn't mean **** if Kuhn and Sheary only scored 2 points in 24 games. Neither of them should have been regulars.

LOL. Almost every single forward on the roster other than Rowney and Kessel spent more time in the OZ then the DZ when Sheary was on his wing. And they did so at much better rates when Sheary was there. Every single one. Go look at the WOWY tables.

Brassard without Sheary took a 22 point dive.
Malkin without Sheary took a 9 point dive.
Guentzel without Sheary took a 35 pt dive.
Crosby without Sheary took a 35 pt dive.

So Sheary didn't score. Neither did anyone else. But what Sheary DID do was drive play very regularly. But sure, keep hating on him. It's driven entirely by emotion with zero rational thought behind it.