Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Countdown to October Part 2 (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

[Coach Travis]

I wonder if Rick Nash is going to full a “Mike Fisher” and come back at the deadline.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Yeah I think he got taken advantage of. He probably wasn’t thinking clearly due to the concussion and might have thought he’d be fine. That’s part of the injury. Those monitoring him probably should have been able to pick something up that he wasn’t right.

Feels like he was coerced into ageeeing to be bought out. He played in the KHL so hopefully he’s good to go again.

I think thats a huge stretch. I think its much more likely that Despres wanted to play, the Ducks didnt need and didnt need to risk playing him so the agreed to buy him out so he could go get minutes in Russia.

 

[Pancakes]

No one should be surprised by any player having CTE or other neurological problems in the future, imo. I wouldn’t be surprised if the rate was rising in general given the speed of the game and how many games they can play. CTE isn’t just a question of big hits and diagnosed concussions. It’s the consistent and frequent smaller abuses. If those smaller abuses are coming from something common then there’s a major problem.

The players now have most likely done a lot of damage already, tbh. You’ve got to wonder how much stopping at 30 would preserve and it’s likely the best treatment is early detection and prevention.

I agree. It's a tough conversation to have because we all love watching these guys play hockey at a high level. I'd hate to have Sid's career cut short, or any other star. I get so much enjoyment out of watching them play.

But as a human with at least some empathy (my heart isn't completely ice lol) there is a part of me that worries about the future health of these players. It's really hard to read about the problems some of them end up having later in life as a result of their playing careers.

Hell, I've played ice all my life too and I kinda wonder what I've done to my own body from doing it. I'm only 31, but I'm sure that when I was younger I had concussions. I don't remember any specific incidents (*insert concussion joke here*) but I'm sure I got my bell rung once or twice. And I still play now, albeit in beer league where there's no hitting. Am I putting myself at risk later in life? Who knows.

I hope this concussion thing is figured out somewhat in my lifetime. It's pretty scary.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

LOL. Almost every single forward on the roster other than Rowney and Kessel spent more time in the OZ then the DZ when Sheary was on his wing. And they did so at much better rates when Sheary was there. Every single one. Go look at the WOWY tables.

Brassard without Sheary took a 22 point dive.
Malkin without Sheary took a 9 point dive.
Guentzel without Sheary took a 35 pt dive.
Crosby without Sheary took a 35 pt dive.

So Sheary didn't score. Neither did anyone else. But what Sheary DID do was drive play very regularly. But sure, keep hating on him. It's driven entirely by emotion with zero rational thought behind it.

Spending time in the offensive zone is one thing, and it was already brought up by pixies in an article. What it doesn't account for and what the article made explicit was precisely why Sheary was a problem in spite of those numbers...because he would constantly fall down and flub perfect passes, negating any positives he might have otherwise brought. Which is why his offensive time so rarely translated into actual production.

 

[PensPlz]

If the forward group as is is what we're going into the season with, then I wouldn't say no to Nash on a 1 year/1 million deal. LW depth is something we never really had. He can probably still put up 15 goals in the bottom 6 and help on the 2nd unit PP.

And if he gets hurt, oh well.

 

[Tom Hanks]

If the forward group as is is what we're going into the season with, then I wouldn't say no to Nash on a 1 year/1 million deal. LW depth is something we never really had. He can probably still put up 15 goals in the bottom 6 and help on the 2nd unit PP.

And if he gets hurt, oh well.

I’d rather not. We have 2.88mil in capspace with Big O to sign. I’d rather let the kids battle it out for the wing spots and save that capspace for the deadline. You should have a buffer anyway for injuries and suck instead of being tight to the cap.

 

[Peat]

I’d rather not. We have 2.88mil in capspace with Big O to sign. I’d rather let the kids battle it out for the wing spots and save that capspace for the deadline. You should have a buffer anyway for injuries and suck instead of being tight to the cap.

Send ZAR down and that's only 75k more you're paying. It'd work, if Nash was willing to do a 1 year/1m deal, which seems super unlikely.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I agree. It's a tough conversation to have because we all love watching these guys play hockey at a high level. I'd hate to have Sid's career cut short, or any other star. I get so much enjoyment out of watching them play.

But as a human with at least some empathy (my heart isn't completely ice lol) there is a part of me that worries about the future health of these players. It's really hard to read about the problems some of them end up having later in life as a result of their playing careers.

Hell, I've played ice all my life too and I kinda wonder what I've done to my own body from doing it. I'm only 31, but I'm sure that when I was younger I had concussions. I don't remember any specific incidents (*insert concussion joke here*) but I'm sure I got my bell rung once or twice. And I still play now, albeit in beer league where there's no hitting. Am I putting myself at risk later in life? Who knows.

I hope this concussion thing is figured out somewhat in my lifetime. It's pretty scary.

I feel guilty watching them. Part of that is the dirty hits but the other is the cumulative damage from the rest of the game they’re surely picking up. They may be adults but they were started so young and some of them predate CTE being known anyway. Letang is the one on the Pens I find the most concerning. Like in 20 years would someone like him be allowed to play at this point?

I’m almost certain the only time I possibly could have gotten a concussion was when I was a kid and my sister slammed a door on my head. I did soccer as a kid but I don’t remember heading the ball much over the years. I can’t think of any other obvious ones. Looking at family neurological history, it’s still probably not great for me to even have that much.

A thing that scares me with this is that no shit your brain doesn’t like being hurt or sloshed around. It doing something bad to people shouldn’t have come as a surprise. I don’t want to know what common thing someone will be saying about that in a decade or two.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I think thats a huge stretch. I think its much more likely that Despres wanted to play, the Ducks didnt need and didnt need to risk playing him so the agreed to buy him out so he could go get minutes in Russia.

I feel like the Ducks didn’t want him and used it to get out of the contract

 

[Riptide]

Spending time in the offensive zone is one thing, and it was already brought up by pixies in an article. What it doesn't account for and what the article made explicit was precisely why Sheary was a problem in spite of those numbers...because he would constantly fall down and flub perfect passes, negating any positives he might have otherwise brought. Which is why his offensive time so rarely translated into actual production.

It's not just "spending time in the OZ". It's the consistency at which he was regularly able to get there, how you need to be there before you get to think about scoring and how much he aided his teammates in getting into the OZ. Did he have a rough year this year in regards to his consistency, production and a few other facets of his game? Absolutely. But that doesn't change the fact that for a team that was starved for goals, Sheary was one of our best players who could consistently get the puck into the OZ and generate quality scoring chances.

 

[Gurglesons]

Spending time in the offensive zone is one thing, and it was already brought up by pixies in an article. What it doesn't account for and what the article made explicit was precisely why Sheary was a problem in spite of those numbers...because he would constantly fall down and flub perfect passes, negating any positives he might have otherwise brought. Which is why his offensive time so rarely translated into actual production.

I mean, that isn’t true. He had a ton of great chances which is what Rip and I are pointing to when we cite his statistics. It is not debatable. His production you can criticize, but his effect on the game was overall positive statistically at generating opportunities

You’re really hypocritical in how you isolate these issues that you perceive and act like they are consistent problems. The stats don’t lie, bias and personal opinion do. It is fine to have an opinion, but when bringing up his general statistics at generating opportunities your argument has no ground. It is very similar to your accusations against Letang.

Sheary was a 3 million dollar top nine forward. If he had the skill set to be what he was in the regular season in 16-17 he’d be one of the best wingers in the game.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's not just "spending time in the OZ". It's the consistency at which he was regularly able to get there, how you need to be there before you get to think about scoring and how much he aided his teammates in getting into the OZ. Did he have a rough year this year in regards to his consistency, production and a few other facets of his game? Absolutely. But that doesn't change the fact that for a team that was starved for goals, Sheary was one of our best players who could consistently get the puck into the OZ and generate quality scoring chances.

What's the sound of one hand clapping? What's the benefit of getting into the offensive zone when you bugger up every chance because you can't stay on your skates or take a pass?

You're right about one thing, we were starved for goals. Unfortunately, goals and OZ time aren't the same thing when you can't execute for shit.

 

[TimmyD]

Jake Sid Sprong
Rust Malkin Kessel
Hagelin Brassard Hornqvist
Cullen Sheahan Simon/ZAR/Hayes

That is the lineup I would like to see opening night

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Sheary was a 3 million dollar top nine forward. If he had the skill set to be what he was in the regular season in 16-17 he’d be one of the best wingers in the game.

But he doesn't, which is why he couldn't produce, which is why he should have sat.

Which is the entire point.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Malkin-Crosby-Sprong
Guentzel-Brassard-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Sheahan-Kessel
Simon-Cullen-ZAR

we have enough cups, let's just get Crosby and Malkin a bunch of points.

LOL. If you're stacking Malkin and Crosby, you don't Sprong on that line. You need a guy to dig pucks and wreak havoc.

Malkin - Crosby - Hornqvist

Is obviously the best one line setup you could have.

Guentzel - Brassard - Kessel
Hagelin - Sheahan - Sprong
ZAR - Cullen - Simon

 

[Peat]

I mean, that isn’t true. He had a ton of great chances which is what Rip and I are pointing to when we cite his statistics.

Quite. The Pens produced the same number of HDCF with Sheary on the ice as Kessel vs Washington and 5 more shots, despite Kessel having 14.26 more ice time. Sheary was incidentally on ice for our only non-Sid/Guentzel ES goal for that series too.

 

[Gurglesons]

But he doesn't, which is why he couldn't produce, which is why he should have sat.

Which is the entire point.

Production in the Capital series:
Brassard - 1 pt
Rust - 0 pts
Kuhnhackl - 0 pts
Sheary - 0 pts
Sheahan - 0 pts
ZAR - 0 pts

Nearly the entire bottom six should’ve been scratched by your opinion.

 

[Gurglesons]

Quite. The Pens produced the same number of HDCF with Sheary on the ice as Kessel vs Washington and 5 more shots, despite Kessel having 14.26 more ice time. Sheary was incidentally on ice for our only non-Sid/Guentzel ES goal for that series too.

Yeah, but he can’t skate, and falls down! LOL!

Letang is the dumbest defenseman in the league!

 

[Turin]

Production in the Capital series:
Brassard - 1 pt
Rust - 0 pts
Kuhnhackl - 0 pts
Sheary - 0 pts
Sheahan - 0 pts
ZAR - 0 pts

Nearly the entire bottom six should’ve been scratched by your opinion.

Sheary was not trusted by Sullivan to take a regular shift in a meaningful situation where he’d have to defend, so it’d make sense that he’d be the one to sit.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Brassard - 1 pt
Rust - 0 pts
Kuhnhackl - 0 pts
Sheary - 0 pts
Sheahan - 0 pts
ZAR - 0 pts

We'e not talking just about the Caps series here pixies. That was never the restricted timeframe for determining who ought to sit. Cherry-picking stats doesn't help your case.

In the playoffs, Kuhn and Sheary (and ZAR, but he was in and out) had the worst production and contributed the least of all our forwards.

 

[Shady Machine]

I’d rather not. We have 2.88mil in capspace with Big O to sign. I’d rather let the kids battle it out for the wing spots and save that capspace for the deadline. You should have a buffer anyway for injuries and suck instead of being tight to the cap.

No way. IF Risk Nash would sign that deal, JR would be stupid not to sign him.

 

[Gurglesons]

We'e not talking just about the Caps series here pixies. That was never the restricted timeframe for determining who ought to sit. Cherry-picking stats doesn't help your case.

In the playoffs, Kuhn and Sheary (and ZAR, but he was in and out) had the worst production and contributed the least of all our forwards.

Sheary has two points in the Flyers series and great fancy stats to go with it?

Why would you change a line-up that won especially a bottom six forward who is producing and looks like he is about to break out statistically who had a part in our win in 2016 and was still good at driving play in 2017?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Quite. The Pens produced the same number of HDCF with Sheary on the ice as Kessel vs Washington and 5 more shots, despite Kessel having 14.26 more ice time. Sheary was incidentally on ice for our only non-Sid/Guentzel ES goal for that series too.

Except Kessel also racked up a bunch of points on the PP, which is for some reason omitted/ignored when you're determining impact. You don't play the whole game at ES. Points on the PP don't count for any less.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Sheary has two points in the Flyers series and great fancy stats to go with it?

Which adds up to fewer points than any Pens regular but Kuhn over the duration of the playoffs. Are you being deliberately obtuse now?

Let's rehash why Kunitz didn't stink in his last year here because of his fancy stats too. That was a good one.

 

[Peat]

But he doesn't, which is why he couldn't produce, which is why he should have sat.

Which is the entire point.

Sometimes people don't produce because they don't get enough good shots on net, and they don't get enough good shots on net because they're not good enough.

Sometimes people don't produce despite there being plenty of good shots on net, because they're unlucky or because they're against a hot goaltender.

Honestly, most of the Pens fell into the latter in the Washington series. A 98.7 save percentage over 192 minutes when not facing Sid/Jake, despite there being 31 HDCF, is just not normal. But Sheary particularly fell into that category.

And going around sitting people for the latter is, by and large, bad coaching.

Except Kessel also racked up a bunch of points on the PP, which is for some reason omitted/ignored when you're determining impact. You don't play the whole game at ES. Points on the PP don't count for any less.

Kessel was a non-shooting bad passing mess on the PP who Washington blatantly ignored who could have been replaced by any competent RH shot. As I told you before.