Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Change is Imminent

[Bruru71]

I think you're overrating Nylander and Zaitsev.

Could see Nylander or Kapanen dealt for a. RH top 4 dman this offseason like a Trouba, Faulk, Hamilton.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

Just for ****s and giggles, who says no to Kessel and Johnson for Nylander and Zaitsev?

This Pittsburgh fan says sure

 

[Shady Machine]

So that’s why he’s being dealt. The Pens drafted a better winger and signed him to big money, and it’s time to move on from the old winger before you have an albatross. Teams already aren’t very interested and Kessel being a drama queen over where he plays is already a distraction.

We can keep both and Phil only has 3 years left. I have no idea why you think Phil will be an albatross. There is nothing in his production to suggest it's going to dive off a cliff.

The whole reason I see to trade Kessel is because the coach and him don't get along and the GM picks the coach.

 

[Turin]

I mean we can keep both so...

And have a flexible cap structure? What if Kessel is a 70 point forward with the same defensive game next year? What if Malkin declines further but is stuck with an even worse Phil than last year? What if on top of that Phil is a distraction because the coaches can’t stand his effort level? The Pens are gonna try and trade him when he has even less value then, and have even less or worse, 0 options to move on.

 

[SEALBound]

Announcing to the world that he's moving Kessel no matter what is a great strategy.

That and being so adamant in trading a player regardless of the return.

JR took a bad hand and made it much worse by running at the mouth. Even if you are willing to do anything to get rid of him, you don't ANNOUNCE it, because that's how you end up in the boat Toronto was in 4 years ago (except now Phil is 4 years older, is being chucked by ANOTHER team, and other GM's aren't traditionally as charitable/fair/whatever you want to call it as JR is when he's holding the cards).

If both if you could, please provide an article or video where JR "announces" he wants to trade him. I mean...who is he announcing it to thats of concern? Other GMs? You want to move a player but you want it to be a secret from the other GMs?

IMHO, this is an "axe to grind with JR" comment. JRDS.

You don’t say!

YES! oh you little sneak! You thought you could get that in without me noticing, eh?

Say it! Say it again! Say it again!

 

[Shady Machine]

And have a flexible cap structure? What if Kessel is a 70 point forward with the same defensive game next year? What if Malkin declines further but is stuck with an even worse Phil than last year? What if on top of that Phil is a distraction because the coaches can’t stand his effort level? The Pens are gonna try and trade him when he has even less value then, and have even less or worse, 0 options to move on.

What if we replace Kessel with a mediocre player and the team sucks more? If your doomsday prediction of Malkin declining further happens, who gives a shit if we trade Kessel or not because this team is toast.

Only reason I can buy into trading Kessel is:
1. Good return for a better fit
2. Everyone hates his guts and he's ruining team chemistry

 

[Turin]

It was Minnesota who leaked the Wild deal, not Rutherford. Rutherford has said nothing about moving Kessel, it’s just pretty obvious that he’s gone from the moment the Pens got swept. The only reason Phil’s value is somewhat low is his NMC and the fact that he’s not actually as good as some here seem to think.

 

[Turin]

What if we replace Kessel with a mediocre player and the team sucks more? If your doomsday prediction of Malkin declining further happens, who gives a **** if we trade Kessel or not because this team is toast.

Only reason I can buy into trading Kessel is:
1. Good return for a better fit
2. Everyone hates his guts and he's ruining team chemistry

The team isn’t toast if Geno becomes a 80-70 point player, it just will require different things, one not being an aging Kessel.

His teammates don’t hate him, but the organization’s management is certainly getting there. And that’s not a good environment for his teammates.. and if you think firing everyone and keeping an aging one dimensional winger is the key, then I’d guess that’s where we part ways on this discussion.

 

[Peat]

Trading Kessel for a bad return will not be the end of the world. And I'm on the record as saying that it'll be annoying and a chance missed, but it also won't be the end of the world.

For one thing, I think people are wrong to think that last year was straight up what this team is and not an underperformance brought on by some freakish injuries, bad runs, bad fits, and general malaise. I'm not sure this team is strong contender good but if the team can avoid those injuries (torpedoed my argument I know) and giving lots of minutes to players being arguably the worst in their position in the NHL and just try a bit harder, the season will at least be comfortably numb rather than actively bad - even without Kessel.

For another... hockey is weird and weird things happen, and there's almost always another chance to fix your mistakes. Even without Kessel there's guys we can move to open up cap space, even if we miss free agency there's still the glorious in-season market of other teams making mistakes (which is Rutherford's strong suit as a trader). Are we likely to get another guy with Kessel's creativity through those avenues, or the two-way maestro most of us crave? No. But we might and are at least a step closer to getting that guy with more futures on board and more flexible cap space.

Realistically making this team younger and hungrier and just as talented isn't good to happen overnight. You have to do it in steps and accept that some of those steps will be gambles. But we have to do it if we're going to stay competitive and trying to do it while maintaining our core of big expensive ageing contracts makes no sense to me.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Just for ****s and giggles, who says no to Kessel and Johnson for Nylander and Zaitsev?

Phil.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Zucc is the type of player who would complement Sid and Jake in a way that none of our RW's do.

Would love this, he definitely has some speed to his game. However, I think the Stars drop some decent coin to keep him.

 

[Bruru71]

Would love this, he definitely has some speed to his game. However, I think the Stars drop some decent coin to keep him.

Maybe but believe they give up a first round pick if he resigns. That is why one Dallas writer pondered a Kessel trade.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Maybe but believe they give up a first round pick if he resigns. That is why one Dallas writer pondered a Kessel trade.

They would, but he fit that team extremely well. Either way is a risk and a cost.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

It was Minnesota who leaked the Wild deal, not Rutherford. Rutherford has said nothing about moving Kessel, it’s just pretty obvious that he’s gone from the moment the Pens got swept. The only reason Phil’s value is somewhat low is his NMC and the fact that he’s not actually as good as some here seem to think.

And obviously, every potential trade partner is well aware of this so the market is what it is. We acquired an undervalued asset from Toronto for similar reasons, enjoyed two great cup runs, and will now move on, realizing the asset has depreciated even more. I hope Phil enjoys success at his next stop, before he inevitably wears out his welcome. I don't really see how JR could have managed this situation much differently given the constraints. Now, the jabbering about Malkin in April is an entirely different story.

 

[pensfan71]

Well Zaitsev has requested a trade apparently

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

And have a flexible cap structure? What if Kessel is a 70 point forward with the same defensive game next year? What if Malkin declines further but is stuck with an even worse Phil than last year? What if on top of that Phil is a distraction because the coaches can’t stand his effort level? The Pens are gonna try and trade him when he has even less value then, and have even less or worse, 0 options to move on.

Yeah I think its less about Phil's point totals and more about getting this team focused again...better all around play. And the right line chemistry. We already have Sid not wanting to play with Hornqvist. Malkin and Kessel werent working like they were. Too many guys out of place..a change is needed and Kessel is the one that makes the most sense.

 

[Andy99]

Well Zaitsev has requested a trade apparently

Guds and JJ for Zaitsev...do it JR

And while we’re at it...Rust for Kapanen

 

[Turin]

“I’d heard things went badly last season between him and the organization, and this confirms it. He knows he will be traded because there’s no benefit to staying, but he’s going to make sure it is on his terms if the Penguins want to send him anywhere other than his eight-team list. My guess is Arizona would be high on his choice of destinations, but I don’t see an easy fit. The Penguins want scoring in return and the Coyotes finished 28th in goals-for. Memorial Day weekend comes at a perfect time for everyone to take a deep breath, drink some strawberry daiquiris, then search for a solution.”

from 31 Thoughts. It’s not salvageable.

 

[JRS91]

Arizona is trying to get better, even if Kessel wants to go there, the best you'll get is a 1st round pick in my opinion.

Trading for Galchenyuk is a lateral move. I'm not sure if I want Goligoski, he's as expensive as Schultz and in my opinion is a pretty sub-par top four defenseman. We'd probably be better off keeping Maatta than trading for Goligoski. Ekman-Larsson, Keller, Hinostroza, Chychrun, Panik, Stepan, Dvorak are probably not going anywhere most likely.

I'm not sure if I'd want Crouse. I just feel like we don't really need another power forward type player, especially at the cost of speed. I just don't really see Arizona wanting to trade anyone that the Penguins would want. I want nothing to do with Grabner. That's a situation where you pass on speed for the fact that he's extremely one-dimensional. If you're trading for Grabner, you might as well just keep Kessel.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Well Zaitsev has requested a trade apparently

Hey JR! These aren’t the D you’re looking for.

 

[Andy99]

Summary from TIOPs from another poster...

TIOPS latest on Penguins and Kessel:

--Says Kessel is not going to be a Penguins this fall under any circumstance. He will be moved and will not be on the roster come fall.

--Concern is now, if Penguins can't find a partner on Kessel's list, how far does Kessel drag this out....July, August?? That would totally wreck any further plans the Penguins have.

--Says Penguins have set their sights on the plan, knowing they will be subtracting talent for team chemistry and buy-in.

--TIOPS says that GMJR's plan after the trade deadline was to make Kessel the scapegoat for a failed season, and, before he took at 2 week break after their playoff exit, he told GMs he had an internal deadline to complete a Kessel trade before the start of the Cup Finals.

--Says the trade was in the works for about 2 weeks before it became public knowledge. Fenton wanted a week or so to think about it, green lighted the deal on Monday the 20th, official trade request went to Kessel on the 21st, but says Kessel agency had gotten wind of this potential deal earlier, had already given Phil background on the Wild's prospects, Boudreau's system player feedback, etc, and it was a pretty quick turnaround for Phil to officially say no.

--Says Penguins are extremely frustrated because they thought they were doing him a favor by trying to shop him to his home state.

--TIOPS says, as widely reported before, that Kessel's 8 team trade list is made up of teams that can't afford him under the cap or don't want him. TIOPS said for over 5 years there were two Western Conference clubs on his list, but, after those teams reportedly checked in/kicked tires last year at the draft, Kessel removed them from his list. Another rumor, which doesn't fit with my next bullet, is that Arizona was on his list, but Kessel removed them when Pittsburgh asked for an updated list, just to have the power.

--TIOPS claims Tampa, Toronto, Boston, Rangers, Islanders, and Flyers are 6 teams on his list.

--TIOPS says Rutherford has gone back to work trying to get more teams to the table (two teams not on his list, one team that is), and that Arizona hasn't said anything, just sitting back and waiting to see how this all shakes out before playing their cards as to whether they actually have any interest.

 

[Turin]

Summary from TIOPs from another poster...

TIOPS latest on Penguins and Kessel:

--Says Kessel is not going to be a Penguins this fall under any circumstance. He will be moved and will not be on the roster come fall.

--Concern is now, if Penguins can't find a partner on Kessel's list, how far does Kessel drag this out....July, August?? That would totally wreck any further plans the Penguins have.

--Says Penguins have set their sights on the plan, knowing they will be subtracting talent for team chemistry and buy-in.

--TIOPS says that GMJR's plan after the trade deadline was to make Kessel the scapegoat for a failed season, and, before he took at 2 week break after their playoff exit, he told GMs he had an internal deadline to complete a Kessel trade before the start of the Cup Finals.

--Says the trade was in the works for about 2 weeks before it became public knowledge. Fenton wanted a week or so to think about it, green lighted the deal on Monday the 20th, official trade request went to Kessel on the 21st, but says Kessel agency had gotten wind of this potential deal earlier, had already given Phil background on the Wild's prospects, Boudreau's system player feedback, etc, and it was a pretty quick turnaround for Phil to officially say no.

--Says Penguins are extremely frustrated because they thought they were doing him a favor by trying to shop him to his home state.

--TIOPS says, as widely reported before, that Kessel's 8 team trade list is made up of teams that can't afford him under the cap or don't want him. TIOPS said for over 5 years there were two Western Conference clubs on his list, but, after those teams reportedly checked in/kicked tires last year at the draft, Kessel removed them from his list. Another rumor, which doesn't fit with my next bullet, is that Arizona was on his list, but Kessel removed them when Pittsburgh asked for an updated list, just to have the power.

--TIOPS claims Tampa, Toronto, Boston, Rangers, Islanders, and Flyers are 6 teams on his list.

--TIOPS says Rutherford has gone back to work trying to get more teams to the table (two teams not on his list, one team that is), and that Arizona hasn't said anything, just sitting back and waiting to see how this all shakes out before playing their cards as to whether they actually have any interest.

In other words, nothing a poster here couldn’t have made up.

 

[Andy99]

 

[Turin]

It’s becoming more clear where this Jack Johnson Defense Program stuff came from last year. There obviously were real problems in the room (personality, bad attitude problems) and Rutherford didn’t like Johnson, who was a good person through it all (god awful player) taking all the blame given how fed up he was with certain individuals as people. Brassard was one, I’m guessing Phil was another.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Madden makes just as compelling as a point as that point.

It’s becoming more clear where this Jack Johnson Defense Program stuff came from last year. There obviously were real problems in the room (personality, bad attitude problems) and Rutherford didn’t like Johnson, who was a good person through it all (god awful player) taking all the blame given how fed up he was with certain individuals as people. Brassard was one, I’m guessing Phil was another.

No, I think he legitimately liked Johnson. I think the acquisitions of Gudbranson and Pettersson pushed Johnson out of having a spot, that's why JR is looking to move him.