Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Change is Imminent

[KIRK]

Yohe on Madden right now. Saying at this point they just want rid of Kessel. Thinks the Zucker deal may have been the best hockey trade they could've hoped for. 100% would play for Arizona but may have to just take the best deal offered out of those from the 8 teams on his list.

Gee, if only there were one or two people (like me ) who said this once it became clear that Phil rejected a trade to Minny.

 

[Turin]

He's not worth more than Guentzel. Who ever said he was?

If you are referring to cap hits, you know that's not how the world works.

So that’s why he’s being dealt. The Pens drafted a better winger and signed him to big money, and it’s time to move on from the old winger before you have an albatross. Teams already aren’t very interested and Kessel being a drama queen over where he plays is already a distraction.

 

[Turin]

Announcing to the world that he's moving Kessel no matter what is a great strategy.

That and being so adamant in trading a player regardless of the return.

He never announced he was moving Kessel no matter what.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Is Stralman any good still? Hes a bit older but could look good in our top-4.

 

[Turin]

 

[KIRK]

Announcing to the world that he's moving Kessel no matter what is a great strategy.

That and being so adamant in trading a player regardless of the return.

JR took a bad hand and made it much worse by running at the mouth. Even if you are willing to do anything to get rid of him, you don't ANNOUNCE it, because that's how you end up in the boat Toronto was in 4 years ago (except now Phil is 4 years older, is being chucked by ANOTHER team, and other GM's aren't traditionally as charitable/fair/whatever you want to call it as JR is when he's holding the cards).

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Well their top powerplay unit now will be Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel and Hornqvist. That's very comparable to Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Kunitz and Neal, who put up big numbers in the past.



The Penguins powerplay in 2012-2013 had 4 left handed players and Letang and scored at a 23% rate.

If we had Sid, Geno, Letang and PH in their primes, it would be much less of a risk to get rid of your PPQB, obviously. But don't act like putting our aging stars out there guarantees the same success it did seven years ago. Even back then there were plenty of down years on the PP.

The supporting cast needs to get stronger every year from now on, not weaker. And the stars need to get more team-oriented moving forward, not more stubborn. If you look at a player like Yzerman, he wasn't good at all defensively early in his career, but after 15 or so years in the league was winning a Selke, working hard at being dominant at faceoffs, etc etc. He was 33-34 when he won the Selke, just like Geno is now. I won't hold my breath on that one.

We either need way, way more from our stars, or else we need way more talent around them. Dumping Phil just for the sake of change is going all-in on our stars to carry the team on the PP and at ES unless we're darn sure we can snag Zucc or maybe Eberle, and get lucky that those players fit in, stay healthy and perform.

It may be necessary to dump Phil if he is being uncooperative, but it reduces your margin for error in any future roster decision.

 

[Malkinstheman]

That's how it SHOULD play out, assuming the ???? is a legit #3, so you can ride the hell out of your top two pairings (and have two reliable puck moving pairings to boot) and more properly insulate Pets-Guds.

Of course it won't . . .

Just looking at FA, Stralman/Edler seem to be the only reasonable options and we dont have the assets to trade for a top-4 D. I think we're gonna be stuck with Maatta sadly. Unless someones willing to do a Murphy for Hjmarlsson type deal. (Maatta for Martinez?).

 

[DesertPenguin]

If we had Sid, Geno, Letang and PH in their primes, it would be much less of a risk to get rid of your PPQB, obviously. But don't act like putting our aging stars out there guarantees the same success it did seven years ago. Even back then there were plenty of down years on the PP.

The supporting cast needs to get stronger every year from now on, not weaker. And the stars need to get more team-oriented moving forward, not more stubborn. If you look at a player like Yzerman, he wasn't good at all defensively early in his career, but after 15 or so years in the league was winning a Selke, working hard at being dominant at faceoffs, etc etc. He was 33-34 when he won the Selke, just like Geno is now. I won't hold my breath on that one.

We either need way, way more from our stars, or else we need way more talent around them. Dumping Phil just for the sake of change is going all-in on our stars to carry the team on the PP and at ES unless we're darn sure we can snag Zucc or maybe Eberle, and get lucky that those players fit in, stay healthy and perform.

It may be necessary to dump Phil if he is being uncooperative, but it reduces your margin for error in any future roster decision.

Actually if it were me I'd run:

____Hornqvist
____________Crosby
Letang _______Malkin
______Schultz

Take advantage of Letang's zone entry ability and then let him move to Phil's RHS position on the half wall. Let Schultz actually run the PP from the top of the umbrella as he has done with great success in the past. Puts 2 d men on the PP also to hopefully limit SHGs.

 

[KIRK]

Just looking at FA, Stralman/Edler seem to be the only reasonable options and we dont have the assets to trade for a top-4 D. I think we're gonna be stuck with Maatta sadly. Unless someones willing to do a Murphy for Hjmarlsson type deal. (Maatta for Martinez?).

Edler is the guy I'd look at, but I can't see him rushing to sign to play for Sullivan ever again (when Torts coached Vancouver, Sully drove Edler nuts with his yelling all the time), and I'm not sure Edler would look to sign with a team in a situation like the Pens right now even if that weren't a factor.

Stralman had a rough year last year from an injury perspective. He was good when healthy, but isn't he a RD exclusively?

As to Maatta, the Pens can find a place to give him away if it came to it. He's slipped a lot in terms of how he's valued around the league, but it's not Jack Johnson 'how the hell do we get rid of this guy' level.

 

[Turin]

Actually if it were me I'd run:

____Hornqvist
____________Crosby
Letang _______Malkin
______Schultz

Take advantage of Letang's zone entry ability and then let him move to Phil's RHS position on the half wall. Let Schultz actually run the PP from the top of the umbrella as he has done with great success in the past. Puts 2 d men on the PP also to hopefully limit SHGs.

There is enough data now to suggest that 2 defenseman on the PP is generally a bad idea.

 

[Gurglesons]

In retrospect, given all the assets we gave up to eventually get Bjugstad, we should’ve probably just re-signed Bonino. He was good Centre for Kessel and makes exactly the same ($4.1M) as Bjugstad.

You don’t say!

 

[KIRK]

Actually if it were me I'd run:

____Hornqvist
____________Crosby
Letang _______Malkin
______Schultz

Take advantage of Letang's zone entry ability and then let him move to Phil's RHS position on the half wall. Let Schultz actually run the PP from the top of the umbrella as he has done with great success in the past. Puts 2 d men on the PP also to hopefully limit SHGs.

I suspect it will be Jake rather than Horny, but absent some major change aside from Phil leaving, I 100% agree with the 2 defensemen approach and sliding Letang to the left side, where he was pretty good when he played there for (I think) two years (after Whitney left but before Gonchar left).

 

[KIRK]

There is enough data now to suggest that 2 defenseman on the PP is generally a bad idea.

There's data from the Pens playing Letang and Schultz together on the PP?

 

[KIRK]

You don’t say!

Apparently, it's NATIONAL EPIPHANY DAY.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Actually if it were me I'd run:

____Hornqvist
____________Crosby
Letang _______Malkin
______Schultz

Take advantage of Letang's zone entry ability and then let him move to Phil's RHS position on the half wall. Let Schultz actually run the PP from the top of the umbrella as he has done with great success in the past. Puts 2 d men on the PP also to hopefully limit SHGs.

This is painfully obvious to me as well, but there's a big contingent of "Jake must be on PP1" people. Letang needs to have his options reduced on the PP, and can't get pucks in Geno's wheelhouse anyways.

 

[Turin]

There's data from the Pens playing Letang and Schultz together on the PP?

No, but there’s examples of better defensemen playing on the PP and getting worse results than 4 forwards.

 

[KIRK]

No, but there’s examples of better defensemen playing on the PP and getting worse results than 4 forwards.

Which is fair, but in the Pens specific case (given their shorty issues and the alternatives with a 4 forward PP without Phil), I think the odds of success are a little better relatively speaking. It's certainly worth trying, because I've always thought Letang is a really creative and effective player on the left wall of the PP.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Just for ****s and giggles, who says no to Kessel and Johnson for Nylander and Zaitsev?

 

[Turin]

Just for ****s and giggles, who says no to Kessel and Johnson for Nylander and Zaitsev?

Toronto

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Just for ****s and giggles, who says no to Kessel and Johnson for Nylander and Zaitsev?

Toronto?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Toronto

Toronto?

You also have to remember that Nylander just put up a 41 point pace over a full season and Zaitsev is signed for longer and for more money than Johnson.

 

[Turin]

You also have to remember that Nylander just put up a 41 point pace over a full season and Zaitsev is signed for longer and for more money than Johnson.

Still definitely Toronto. Nylander could have put up 1 point and it’s still Toronto.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Still definitely Toronto. Nylander could have put up 1 point and it’s still Toronto.

I think you're overrating Nylander and Zaitsev.

 

[Turin]

I think you're overrating Nylander and Zaitsev.

Uh.. Phil Kessel used to play for the Leafs when he was a bonafide superstar. Fun fact, it didn’t end well.