Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Change is Imminent

[CertifiedLurker]

Kessel is older, will not play on the third line, is getting worse defensively than he already was, has betrayed the trust of the coaching staff since those Cups when it comes to his stupid Ironman streak, etc. Phil is not a ppg winger elsewhere, much like Neal in 2014 (except worse defensively).

BUT

This thread is to celebrate the positives of Phil.

Except that he is, and has been exactly that . I can't wait for the trade to be done with and the season to start, thinking that this is somehow the solution is a joke to a contending team. Every trade gets this team further from the identity that won it the back to back championships and its only going to get worse. Pathetic scapegoating. You don't win championships off the safe players, you win them off the ones who have the ability to be spectacular.

Can't wait to see him on a team that has defenseman who can actually first pass like the Pens used to. No idea what games some of you have been watching, this guy hasn't gotten worse defensively at all, he's basically the exact same player he's always been (frankly a lot better than he ever was in Toronto defensively if you can believe that) but this team has been a shell of what made it so great in 2016 and 2017, and when you can't play him to his strengths its probably better for HIM that the Pens want to move on. I've never seen Kessel get so few rush opportunities than I saw this past season, and that's nothing to do with his own speed and everything to do with how much worse their transition game has become.

This trade is only going to buy Sully time, but the inevitable is coming.

Click to read more...

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

My favourite Kessel moment was when he produced at an elite level year-in and year-out for us, which is as much as anyone should have ever reasonably expected.

People who think that moving him will be addition by subtraction, or that we're better off with a Zucker-calibre winger, will be in for a rude awakening.

At the risk of getting off topic and derailing a thread (that's largely been derailed already); This is the kind of shift in approach that happened when we parted ways with Neal and went with Hornqvist. Phil needs to go, and it's in both parties' (Pens as well as Phil) best interest that it happens quickly this summer. The Neal trade worked out very well, but there's always a risk involved with a trade of this magnitude. I do, however, think a Zucker that gets back to his 65pt potential is a better option for this team moving forward than an 80pt Phil Kessel--without a doubt.

 

[BHD]

2019 NHL Entry Draft - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
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2019 NHL Entry Draft - Wikipedia
2019 NHL Draft
NHL Draft big board: Latest rankings of top 31 prospects in 2019 class

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Previous threads:
Salary Cap & Roster Building - Y'all got any more of them Kessel rumors
Salary Cap & Roster building - All of your Pittsburgh born players belong to us
Salary Cap & Roster building - I need a White Russian
Salary Cap: - Salary Cap + Roster Building: Malkin Avengers - EndGame
Salary Cap: - Salary cap+roster building: To Malkin or not to Malkin?

 

[Peat]

Change is just a Maatta of time.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Change is just a Maatta of time.

Waiting on JR to Phil out the roster.

 

[Gurglesons]

Waiting on JR to Phil out the roster.

Rust easy, JR always fixes his mistakes.

 

[TheTang58]

Rust easy, JR always fixes his mistakes.

Then he makes new ones. He's always Malkin mistakes.

 

[BHD]

Then he makes new ones. He's always Malkin mistakes.

He's going to ruhin the roster.

 

[Empoleon8771]

To people in this thread so far

 

[TheTang58]

To people in this thread so far

Because we McCann do whatever the hell we want. Is that a Gud enough reason?

 

[Corvidae]

The pun game here is on point and at a level I cannot hope to compete.

 

[Tom Hanks]

The pun game here is on point and at a level I cannot hope to compete.

You can do it! Try Tristan the words.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because we McCann do whatever the hell we want. Is that a Gud enough reason?

I'm deleting my account

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm deleting my account

All it took was puns? Man, we should’ve pointed you to NHL.com a year or two ago!

 

[Peat]

He's going to ruhin the roster.

This is why I'm not in a murray to see trades done like other people are. I'm okay putting bad news off.

Still, all sid and done, we know there's got to be changes.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Juuso wrong about what JR should do. He needs to be Calen other GMs to Philip the prospect cupboard. Hayes not just going to lay down and be a door Matt for other GMs, he'll make a good move Justin time for the Summers.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

Then he makes new ones. He's always Malkin mistakes.

What’s the next one? Try to add Love and Joy just to make this board Tangery?

 

[Riptide]

From the sounds of it Phil can't exactly change the list to be any harder.

I don't actually believe that's currently the case. Nor have I heard anyone other than MacKenzie suggest it. But even if he has intentionally made his list so that it's harder to trade him... after a month or so of rumors as to whom might be interested and whatnot, he could always make it harder. So while I'm not sure when that deadline is - I'd be doing my best to move him prior to that.

@Pancakes

I'm going to defend Kessel for a minute here. Regardless of whether winning is a priority, what place you live in matters a lot for your own happiness and well-being. Living in a place where you're unhappy is not going to be enjoyable even if you have millions of dollars. If he doesn't like Minnesota because of the area or the weather or whatever, good for him and I respect him for not wanting to let himself get shipped off there.

Also this summer feels like it is really dragging. I want it to be the draft and for this Kessel deal to be done already. Getting anxious wondering where JR heads with this team.

While a I agree with you that where you live can really affect you mentally if you're unhappy there... these player's travel so much that I question how much it really matters. I mean look at Feb for the Penguins. They had 5 different trips out of town for games (and potentially more if they came home in-between some of those games). And while traveling can be exhausting in it's own right, I'd be surprised if they're spending more than 20 nights a month in their own beds on an average month.

That said, I don't begrudge Kessel for using the rights he was able to negotiate. It's one of the reasons we were able to get him so cheaply 4 years ago. I'm not mad that he has and is using his rights, I just want him gone.

 

[ColePens]

Woaaaah. Thread is on fire right now.

 

[Peat]

I don't actually believe that's currently the case. Nor have I heard anyone other than MacKenzie suggest it. But even if he has intentionally made his list so that it's harder to trade him... after a month or so of rumors as to whom might be interested and whatnot, he could always make it harder. So while I'm not sure when that deadline is - I'd be doing my best to move him prior to that.

There's a dodgy rumour that someone who's played poker with him knows and that it's all rivals and stuff, and I also believe some journo has reported that Rutherford's not at all interested in the potential returns from the 8 teams on the list - and I don't see how it gets harder than that.

 

[Riptide]

I think it was more based around the fact if he wants to win he’d be a little more flexible with where he’d be traded to. Not questioning his desire to win.

@pixiesfanyo @ColePens

I'm not even questioning where he gets traded to, or how he uses his NTC. In that regard while I might not like it, I fully support him using his SPC to his full advantage (must be the union member in me).

If Kessel truly wanted to win, he would be significantly more flexible in his role within the club (aka not pouting whenever not stapled to Malkin's hip) and would do a hell of a lot more without the puck and more importantly wouldn't make as many lazy ass plays with the puck. I get that Kessel had a "bad" Malkin for much of the season and JJ behind him. So while that can excuse a lot offensively, there's no reason for many of his lazy ass performances in the RS as what we saw.

People can say they want something all the time. But their actions (or inactions) speak much louder than words. And in the past 12 months or so we've seen Kessel's actions speak for him to the point that no words are needed.

@SEALBound

If a player waives their NTC to go to a team, I believe it is a team's choice of whether or not to honor it thereafter. Because the Pens were on Phil's list, the NTC did not go away thus it's still valid. Now if the Pens weren't on the list but he waived, JR would not have to honor it...but agains, I believe he would have the choice.

I think that might have been an option in prior CBAs or maybe just some confusion in how it was reported... but as of the most recent CBA or two, that's definitely no longer the case. Now the only option to dump a NTC/NMC is if you acquire the player before the clause kicks in, then you can void it should you wish to. Once it's there, it's there for good.

 

[HuskerTornado]

Change is just a Maatta of time.

Change, it doesn't Maatta who you are.

And now I want to watch Vision Quest.

 

[billybudd]

Are they? Or do they get those numbers from league sources, then come up with different "advanced stats" to try and interpret what that data means?

I'm honestly curious because a lot of these "analytics" crowd folks seem to just use data given to input into various equations and then put their own interpretation on what that data represents.

@Sidney the Kidney
Alright, so there's two types of analytics, now.

There's the publicly available stuff, which is basically just people taking data dumps and looking for correlations by rearranging this data. You get a lot of stupidity and obviously faulty conclusions out of these analytics. For an example, read every Ryan Wilson article, ever, but even some of the smarter people have made some ridiculous pronunciations from evaluating this type of information in this way (Gabe Desjardins famously declaring that "there is no such thing as shot quality," a counter-intutive counter-factual which looked right if you did the math a certain way, but was obliterated by a study on goaltending by...I forget who...the guy used to solicit ideas on one of the forums on this site a few years ago).

Then there's the proprietary stuff. These analytics involves things like video analysis, 3D modeling and biometrics in addition to raw data dumps. None of it is publicly available. It's all hoarded by the teams or kept as a trade secret by consulting firms. This stuff probably is better than the average hockey fan's eye test. Maybe better than the average hockey enthusiast's eye test, though the secretive nature of it makes it impossible to say for certain.

For my money, once the cutting-edge stuff got paywalled and stayed that way, analytics became a pointless thing for fans to discuss. What analytics are valuable are invisible to us and what analytics are available to us are not particularly useful, no matter how colorful the graphs that can be made from them are.

 

[Riptide]

There's a dodgy rumour that someone who's played poker with him knows and that it's all rivals and stuff, and I also believe some journo has reported that Rutherford's not at all interested in the potential returns from the 8 teams on the list - and I don't see how it gets harder than that.

Yeah I heard the rumor of the friend of a friend who plays poker with Kessel. I'm just not going to put much stock into it.

The bolded was Rossi, and those were his conclusions based on that Rutherford went to Minny vs a team on his yes list. But where Rossi went wrong (IMO) is that Minny was on his list several years ago and went to college in the area... so I don't think it's quite the stretch that Rossi is reaching that Kessel might have okay'd going there - vs say some place like Edmonton or Ottawa, and that as such JR doesn't like the assets that he might get from one of the 8 teams on the yes list. In the end (so far) Kessel hasn't okayed going there, and we'll see going forward how things play out. I'm also sure that at some point in the near future if a trade isn't agreed to that we'll see exactly what his yes list is. Then we can have some informed discussions around it.

 

[Riptide]

For my money, once the cutting-edge stuff got paywalled and stayed that way, analytics became a pointless thing for fans to discuss. What analytics are valuable are invisible to us and what analytics are available to us are not particularly useful, no matter how colorful the graphs that can be made from them are.

I disagree with this. They can be useful. BUT I think one also needs to actually watch the games as well, and can't just go off the analytics (such as R.Wilson).