Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building (Cap Details in First Post) | Turning Pages

[Empoleon8771]

Brassard is on a 31 pt pace.

And I think the amount of improvement we can get for Brassard and what it would cost is minimal tbh.

But again, he put up points while playing LW with Crosby. He's not on a 31 point pace as a center, he's doing much worse as the 3C.

If anything, they should treat him like a LW for the rest of this year and try to acquire a 3C. He has shown he can be effective with Crosby, so why not try him with Malkin and Hornqvist and acquire a 3C? Just using Jarnkrok as a name, end up with something like:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Brassard-Malkin-Hornqvist
Pearson-Jarnkrok-Kessel
Simon-Cullen-ZAR

That's a sexy forward group.

 

[Ryder71]

When was Brassard with Jake and Hornqvist?

I think Brassard usage is really one of his biggest issues. Kessel isn’t even working with Malkin.

Also, to your point above. Are third line centers often a reason teams win games?

I've questioned Sully's usage of players quite a bit, but in this case I think Sully has been more than fair with the options he's afforded Brassard. I mean Pearson and Kessel? And some shifts this season with Sid?

He's simply not playing well away from the puck and beyond that his effort is definitely questionable. Do you really think that's a long term recipe for success here or even for the remainder of this season?

 

[pensfan71]

I do think Kessel and Brass are just oil and water. Brass' best success came when playing with Hagelin and Zuccs, where he controlled the puck. I don't think he's a great fit on any line unless he has the puck in his hands, which as of right now may look like he's handling a bomb since he has no confidence...

Also remember when we thought we were getting this Brass that I described 8 months ago:
GDT: - Trade Deadline Thread - MOAR Trades PLZ (Warning in OP)

Good f***ing times

 

[Gurglesons]

I've questioned Sully's usage of players quite a bit, but in this case I think Sully has been more than fair with the options he's afforded Brassard. I mean Pearson and Kessel? And some shifts this season with Sid?

He's simply not playing well away from the puck and beyond that his effort is definitely questionable. Do you really think that's a long term recipe for success here or even for the remainder of this season?

Yes. Because we’ve been successful with him.

 

[Riptide]

Brassard is on a 31 pt pace.

And of his 12 points 3 came from the Calgary game where he took 2 FOs all game and was on Crosby's wing. Another one came in the NYI game where he took 3 FO's all game and was again on Crosby's wing.

So while yes he's on pace for 31 points (still not nearly good enough), it hasn't all been when he's been playing center. If we were just talking about a point or two, it wouldn't really matter. But we're talking about 33% of his total production.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think he would fit with Kessel like Sheahan did. Some underrated passing and doing all the grunt work, with Kessel just doing his thing. Kessel might not like it, but I believe that they would be a successful line for us.



I'm curious as to how someone could covet a player like Nuke with 0g/7a in 32 games this season and who carries a 3m cap hit this season and next, and think it's a good idea. I mean if that's the price to get Faksa, I'd probably do it... but that doesn't mean it's a good idea if we don't have to.

If we're getting a winger from Dallas, the guy I'd be looking at is Janmark. With his poor season (6g/30pt pace) he shouldn't cost too much on his next deal. But this is a guy who's a good skater and has some skills.

I like Janmark, but I think if we can dump Maatta and Brass to them, we'd have to take back Nuke.

 

[Gurglesons]

And of his 12 points 3 came from the Calgary game where he took 2 FOs all game and was on Crosby's wing. Another one came in the NYI game where he took 3 FO's all game and was again on Crosby's wing.

So while yes he's on pace for 31 points (still not nearly good enough), it hasn't all been when he's been playing center. If we were just talking about a point or two, it wouldn't really matter. But we're talking about 33% of his total production.

This strikes me a lot like the Bonino only produced when Malkin was hurt. I don’t really mind where Brassard is producing and I don’t have an issue with them moving him to wing.

It should also be included in a reason why he’s not consistently producing. He’s had absolutely no consistency in his usage here or line mates.

Has he spent over 150 minutes with any player? He spent 60ish 5v5 minutes with Kessel through December 23rd before JR’s complaints about them.

Since then he’s spent another 60ish 5v5 minutes with Kessel so his most consistent line mate until the last stretch when he has 3 pts was for 60 minutes.

 

[Andy99]

But again, he put up points while playing LW with Crosby. He's not on a 31 point pace as a center, he's doing much worse as the 3C.

If anything, they should treat him like a LW for the rest of this year and try to acquire a 3C. He has shown he can be effective with Crosby, so why not try him with Malkin and Hornqvist and acquire a 3C? Just using Jarnkrok as a name, end up with something like:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Brassard-Malkin-Hornqvist
Pearson-Jarnkrok-Kessel
Simon-Cullen-ZAR

That's a sexy forward group.

I agree that we need to use him while we have him in a place that makes better use of him than 3C appears to...if that's LW with Geno I'm all for trying it...but we're going to have find an option at 3C that's here already...I don't believe Jarnkrok is available....even though it might wear out Cullen, maybe the best option is for him to play 3C...if not, give Grant, Sheahan and Blueger another try until we something that clicks...

 

[Ryder71]

Yes. Because we’ve been successful with him.

But not necessarily because of him. I mean, you could say we've been successful of late due to JJ being in the line up. That sort of argument doesn't really work. In certain instances there are passengers who come along for the ride.

 

[Gurglesons]

But not necessarily because of him. I mean, you could say we've been successful of late due to JJ being in the line up. That sort of argument doesn't really work. In certain instances there are passengers who come along for the ride.

Except our record with JJ in the line up is

22 - 12 - 6. = .550

Not 20 - 5 - 6. = .645

 

[Ryder71]

Except age record with JJ in the line up is

22 - 12 - 6.

Not 20 - 5 - 6.

So you believe Brassard is the decisive reason for that record?

 

[Gurglesons]

So you believe Brassard is the decisive reason for that record?

I don’t think any 3C is a “decisive reason”. I think Brassard is doing enough to make our team better and more of a threat when he is in the line-up.

If an upgrade falls in our lap, I wouldn’t be opposed. But, I honestly don’t think he has been an issue.

Like I said, I think a lot of people expect more because of the trade. If he was a UFA we signed for 3 mil and one year, I think he’d be viewed as underperforming, but not an issue.

 

[Ryder71]

I don’t think any 3C is a “decisive reason”. I think Brassard is doing enough to make our team better and more of a threat when he is in the line-up.

In theory that's how it was suppose to work. In actuality I think it can be primarily attributed to Crosby playing an unbelievable brand of hockey, Letang playing other worldly on defense and our goaltending tandem shutting the door on the opposition. Brassard has nearly nothing to do with it. And in fact I would suggest we win at times in spite of him.

 

[Peat]

But not necessarily because of him. I mean, you could say we've been successful of late due to JJ being in the line up. That sort of argument doesn't really work. In certain instances there are passengers who come along for the ride.

I wish I had the time to dig deep into the difference between our results with all of our top centres and the 11 game streak where we missed one or the other. I feel pretty sure its partly a coincidence, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn there's something to it.

One quick thought - Matt Cullen (who was coming into form nicely before his injury) was out for a long time. Since getting back 11 games ago, Cullen and Sheahan have (sometimes together, sometimes apart) been on the ice for 8 goals for and 3 against. In the 9 before, Sheahan was on for 3 goals for and 3 against. How much of the difference is on the 4th line only really coming together recently regardless of Brassard's role?

 

[Gurglesons]

In theory that's how it was suppose to work. In actuality I think it can be primarily attributed to Crosby playing an unbelievable brand of hockey, Letang playing other worldly on defense and our goaltending tandem shutting the door on the opposition. Brassard has nearly nothing to do with it. And in fact I would suggest we win at times in spite of him.

Crosby and the goaltenders were pretty average to start the season when we were still winning with Brassard.

Letang and Crosby were playing tremendously well when Brassard got injured and we lost 6 out of seven.

 

[Gurglesons]

I wish I had the time to dig deep into the difference between our results with all of our top centres and the 11 game streak where we missed one or the other. I feel pretty sure its partly a coincidence, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn there's something to it.

One quick thought - Matt Cullen (who was coming into form nicely before his injury) was out for a long time. Since getting back 11 games ago, Cullen and Sheahan have (sometimes together, sometimes apart) been on the ice for 8 goals for and 3 against. In the 9 before, Sheahan was on for 3 goals for and 3 against. How much of the difference is on the 4th line only really coming together recently regardless of Brassard's role?

So unless we get a 3C back for Brassard we are splitting up that line, correct?

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Except our record with JJ in the line up is

22 - 12 - 6. = .550

Not 20 - 5 - 6. = .645

What is our record with Petterson?

 

[Gurglesons]

What is our record with Petterson?

I think last I checked 12-2-1?

 

[Ryder71]

Crosby and the goaltenders were pretty average to start the season when we were still winning with Brassard.

Letang and Crosby were playing tremendously well when Brassard got injured and we lost 6 out of seven.

The way you're framing it suggests you do in fact believe Brassard is integral and pivotal into the reasons for our success.

 

[Gurglesons]

The way you're framing it suggests you do in fact believe Brassard is integral and pivtol into the reasons for our success.

I think having a threat that needs respected as a 3C is integral and pivotal to success.

I think while Brassard is underwhelming so far, he definitely has that reputation.

I also would not be surprised at all to see him go on a HBK like run with the right line mates. This version of Kessel for this version of Brassard is not the right line mates.

Honestly, I think Kessel has been a huge reason why Brassard and Geno have been underwhelming this year. And it’s created an issue where we can’t get any of them going because we are trying to get all of them going.

I’d just go..

Guentzel - Crosby - Kessel
Pearson - Malkin - Rust
Simon - Brassard - Hornqvist

And be done with it.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I think last I checked 12-2-1?

I think if you want to point to the good fortune, that is your starting point.
A guy who can skate and move the puck up...

 

[Peat]

Crosby and the goaltenders were pretty average to start the season when we were still winning with Brassard.

Letang and Crosby were playing tremendously well when Brassard got injured and we lost 6 out of seven.

Letang had one point in those 8 games and that on the power play, a period in which we only scored 4 PP goals total in about 40 odd minutes of trying while conceding 2. I'm going to guess he wasn't playing tremendously well, particularly as he was on ice for 3 of the 5 PK goals we conceded in this period. Losing special teams 7-4 is probably a big part of our poor record in that time. Hell, that's a bigger differential that we lost 5v5 in that time (14-16).

That said, yes, Sid was pretty awesome (apart from the PP). And our bottom 6 was pretty poor. A 5v5 shooting percentage of 6.01 was a huge part of our woes then... although that was partially on some great opposition goaltenders.

So unless we get a 3C back for Brassard we are splitting up that line, correct?

They've spent as much time away from each other as together since Cullen got back, and have been better away from each other too, so no biggie there.

 

[Riptide]

Except our record with JJ in the line up is

22 - 12 - 6. = .550

Not 20 - 5 - 6. = .645

The joys of being hurt when the team was playing like trash. If only everyone could be so lucky.

Crosby and the goaltenders were pretty average to start the season when we were still winning with Brassard.

Letang and Crosby were playing tremendously well when Brassard got injured and we lost 6 out of seven.

Yep. Then we just had Malkin in God mode with (iirc) 19pts in 10 games.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think if you want to point to the good fortune, that is your starting point.
A guy who can skate and move the puck up...

That would make sense, but..

8 - 3 - 4 before Pettersson.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think an impact PMD is way more important than upgrading or doing something to rectify the Brassard situation at this point. The team is doing really well but that's mostly on the back of Sid's brilliance and a hot Murray/CDS duo. Petterson and Riikola have been good but I'd still like a top 4 PMD.

Now, if somehow assets in a Brassard deal can be re-purposed as part of the package for a PMD, then I'd happily do that. But I don't need to have some dominant 3C. Sheahan and/or Cullen would be fine.

Frankly we need to get our dominant 2C (#71) back a lot more than we need a great 3C. Chicago won multiple cups with average players behind Toews at center.