Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building (Cap Details in First Post) | Turning Pages

Discussion in 'Pittsburgh Penguins' started by ColePens, Dec 28, 2018.

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  1. ColePens

    ColePens RIP parabola & Fugu

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    [​IMG]
    From CapFriendly
    AHL thread is here. Links to 2018 draft pick threads and QO information are in the first post.
    Hagelin - Pearson trade thread is here.
    Hagelin appreciation thread is here.
    Sprong trade thread is here.
    Guentzel signing thread is here.
     
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  2. Riptide

    Riptide Registered User Sponsor

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    Yeah I don't think there's any risk of Brassard re-signing here.
     
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  3. Solzhenitsyn

    Solzhenitsyn Registered User

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    To respond to the other thread- no, Bonino wasn’t a possession black hole like Sutter.
     
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  4. ColePens

    ColePens RIP parabola & Fugu

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    What drives me nuts about Brassard is how he gives up on the play in both the offensive and defensive zone. There are plenty of times where there is still a 30-40% chance to make a play and he just stands and watches. It is especially frustrating on the defensive zone side of things. He sometimes just drifts and doesn't go to the play. It drives me a bit mad.

    It's a bit like Sheahan. If you saw Sheahan's sense of urgency and hunger in the Caps game, you would never believe that is the same player we've had for every other game this year. I just don't get why you don't see that out of Sheahan AT LEAST 20+ games. Now for Brassard, same thing. He's just more talented. The "sense of urgency" or maybe there is a better word to describe it, is just not there. That is where Bones really made up. He would go down to block a shot as if he were the goalie and maybe there was only a 20% chance of actually blocking it.
     
  5. Tom Hanks

    Tom Hanks Mistakes brought to you by my iPhone.

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    I’m wondering if it’s more frustration from Brass about how things have gone here and the role he’s playing. He doesn’t really seem happy here.

    That’s just my own observation because he wasn’t really doing those things when he got here. Either way he needs to get over it if that’s what’s really going on. It doesn’t help us and will only cost him money next contract (maybe not by that much but it will also lower his options).
     
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  6. NMK11

    NMK11 Registered User

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    This whole thread just reaffirms my belief that this fanbase just had unrealistic expectations of a third line center. It's like because we have a generational player as our second line center, our third line center should only be a step below that?

    Serious question to people saying all of Brassard, Bonino, and Sutter are not good 3c's: how many points would you be happy with from that position?
     
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  7. EightyOne

    EightyOne Here we ****ing go, again!

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    Its like, maybe 45 points, to be honest?

    Which is what those guys have gotten.

    I just, point TOTALS is one thing. I think people would rather third line scoring that happens at an every other game pace, rather than 3pt night and nothing for the next 5 games?

    Or more consistent shut down defense. If they aren't gonna score, they better as damn well not allow scores against.

    I dunno.
     
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  8. Solzhenitsyn

    Solzhenitsyn Registered User

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    Sutter sucks. The other are good.
     
  9. pixiesfanyo

    pixiesfanyo Registered User

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    100%.

    Jordan Staal is not a 3C. Bonino is a high end 3C. Sutter a low end 3C.

    Brassard is struggling and still is playing at a 30+ pace.
     
  10. dkollidas

    dkollidas Registered User

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    Sabres fan wondering what Brassard would cost st the deadline, if he’s available? Or if you folks feel the organization will deal him?

    I was thinking something around Sobotka & one of Casey Nelson, Nathan Beaulieu, or Marco Scandella.

    I’m most reluctant to deal Beaulieu (he’s been really solid this year in a limited role, reminds me of what you guys have done with Schultz), and he’s still an RFA after this year.

    Scandella is probably currently the best and has the best reputation around the league. He’s battled some injuries this year, but he’s back. He has one year left at $4M. If we added him we might want something added to our side as well. Nothing big, maybe a 4th Round Pick or something of that nature.

    Nelson isn’t the greatest guy, but he’s a capable bottom pairing guy who can skate and move the puck without being a tire-fire. If we put him in the deal, we might be the ones needed to add further. Again maybe a 4th or something small like a Justin Bailey.

    Overall I think Brassard would be a good fit in Buffalo and I think we have some pieces that could help you guys as well for the post season as well.
     
  11. EightyOne

    EightyOne Here we ****ing go, again!

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    Sobotka is a step down for the Pens. But, i would 90% do it for Beau too....45% for Nelson. No thanks to Scandella. Dont know if Pens have the salary cap for it.
     
  12. Solzhenitsyn

    Solzhenitsyn Registered User

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    Maybe Scandella. Pens need an offensive driver on D though. Not interested in the rest tbh, for Brassard anyway.
     
  13. Riptide

    Riptide Registered User Sponsor

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    Bonino is NOT a high end 3c. He played like when when HBK was on fire, but for the rest of his time here was average at best.
     
  14. EightyOne

    EightyOne Here we ****ing go, again!

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    I think as a bottom four player, Beaulieu would be a good responsible with offensive ability guy--I mean, the Pens are starting to get a log jam of bottom four guys though, too.
     
  15. OGBobbyFarnham

    OGBobbyFarnham Registered User

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    It was simply a failed gamble on JR's part.
    Brass is a softer 2C who can win draws.
    I also wouldn't rule out him still having a bad groin tho.
     
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  16. JRS91

    JRS91 Registered User

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    Bonino was a good third line center for the Penguins.

    He was a good two-way player, decent passer, blocked shots, could play on the PP or the PK, decent hands, good possession numbers (If that's your thing). Basically a jack of all trades. He wasn't necessarily great at anything, but decent at everything. The only thing where he might've been below-average was skating. He was also cheap, was a solid playoff performer and had chemistry with Hagelin and Kessel.

    The issue is he sort of out-performed his way out of Pittsburgh. He was an annual 12-15 goal, 30-40 point guy. He overachieved a bit his last year here and got paid. Well deserved in my opinion, but probably overpaid in most people's eyes. The Penguins don't need a guy like Brassard, they never did. Yes, having Brassard around is nice in case of injury, but hindsight's 20/20. Brassard is a second line center on most teams. He won't be back and I wouldn't be shocked if he sticks around given how good he is in the playoffs. Let's not forget, he was playing with a pretty nasty injury last season.

    The Penguins need to find a 3rd line center though. Sheahan looked like he could've been that guy, I just don't think he really fits here. Don't get me wrong, Bonino wasn't someone who was on the scoresheet every night, he actually struggled a lot his first season here until he was playing with Hagelin and Kessel (Then again the whole team was struggling up until about January that season). I personally really like Adam Lowry. Super underrated defensively and offensively is good for about 12-15 goals and 30-40 points. That's all the Penguins need in my opinion or any team for that matter.
     
  17. NMK11

    NMK11 Registered User

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    Kudos for throwing out a number.

    And not to call you out, but just to put some context in here. There are 31 teams in this league, that means 186 top 6 players. Do you know how much the 187th highest scoring player scored last year? 33 points. If you look at just centers, the 63rd highest scorer (after the 62 1/2Cs) scored 45 points, which is probably a little high as it is because a few of the players listed as C are actually more often wingers. An average 3rd line center produces high 30s for points. You, and plenty of other people on this board, are essentially saying they would only be satisfied if we had the highest scoring 3rd line center in the league. And that's just points, we also want that elite offensive center who can also play a shut down game.

    I know this methodology is flawed by just looking at one year (two years ago the point totals for those same rankings were actually even lower) and just points, and just NHL's officially listed position, but it at least ballparks it. Again, I think because our second line center puts up 90+ points a year we expect a 3C who will produce 50-60 points a year as though that's normal. And before you respond to that, I 100% had a regular poster on this board tell me that's what they expected last year during our early-year 3C debacles. I really just want people to start understanding what a 3C really is and what it isn't

    I could see high end being debatable. But in his last 5 years, Nick Bonino has averaged 36 points per season, one of which was cut short to 3/4 of a season, could play on the PP and PK, and was above average defensively. I would challenge you to name 8 (chose that number to put him in the second quartile) true third line centers (i.e. not a career 2C playing 3C like Brassard) that you'd take over him. Not that I"m 100% disagreeing with you, just curious.

    Kuhn sucks. Rowney sucks. Reaves sucks. Gladams was a truckful of suckage. Sutter doesn't suck, he's just a low end 3C that isn't going to help you win a Cup if he's playing there. Some people talk on here like he's barely an NHL player and that's absolutely a symptom of our center expectations syndrome.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
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  18. BHD

    BHD Coaching change?

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    Bonino was really effective when the HBK line was doing it's thing. However, he struggled after that. Even though he scored some key goals the follow year, his play took a hit. I would still take him over Sutter though.
     
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  19. SherogoesHAM

    SherogoesHAM Registered User

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    JR is right. This teams biggest need is a strong offensive third line with Kessel on it.
     
  20. Tom Hanks

    Tom Hanks Mistakes brought to you by my iPhone.

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    I don’t think struggled is the right word. Not as consistent but that’s why he’s on the 3rd line. He had a fair amount of different wing combinations too but that is the life of a bottom 6 player (especially on this team). Some of the advanced stats in terms of chances/high danger chances for were actually better away from HBK. The S% was much lower though he also went from 57% oZS with HBK to 35% but he still had good production.

    Not really physically gifted but he played hard especially when it counted. Very solid in his own end and played a smart game going forward. After Hornqvist probably our 2nd best guy in front of the net going after those loose pucks. He battled for everything there. He was a good fit here. I was sad to see him go just the timing of things (being a UFA, other teams overpaying, JR really really wanting Duchene etc).
     
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  21. NMK11

    NMK11 Registered User

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    The trade off of making the third line more offensive is that you then need to make Sid and Malkin's lines more two-way/possession lines as they'd have to take (a few) more d-zone starts, plus the fact that you really can't get 6 offensive top 9 wingers on one team. I would personally be fine with trying it, but it's easier said than done.
     
  22. Tom Hanks

    Tom Hanks Mistakes brought to you by my iPhone.

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    Which is why losing Hagelin is a bit of a loss. He added that element to Geno’s line and HGH in particular could go up against any line and shut them down while still being able to produce.

    I miss Hagelin. I think Malkin does too on the ice. He was really close with a lot of our better players off the ice too. Sucks that there is not even a possibility that we could get him back at the deadline.
     
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  23. molon labe

    molon labe Registered User

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    IF Dallas were to move one of their two big stars as a rumor may suggest - I wonder what other assets would be on the block? If Benn and/or Seguin get moved, you would have to think that the season is truly a write-off and other assets could be had for the right piece.

    Not really sure what would be available, but they certainly have a few RD's and Radulov stands out as being a guy that would not be long for the team without those two.

    Right now two of our recent trade partners seem to have availability (Blues and Stars) - so if we were to strongly consider moving on from Brass, now seems to be the time to do so.
     
  24. pixiesfanyo

    pixiesfanyo Registered User

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    So.. who exactly is a high end 3C?
     
  25. BHD

    BHD Coaching change?

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    I'd be interested in Devin Shore. He's basically a younger Matt Cullen.
     
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