Post-Game Talk: Sabres/Refs 5 Leafs 2

[Shanwhatplan]

The Leafs depth is the same as it would be if Matthews, Marner and Nylander were on the ELC.....

Kapanen, Hyman and Johnsson to round out your top 9.

The only argument you could make is Kadri over Kerfoot... So no, the heavy cap spending isnt more evident.

Except for the fact we could have addressed our defence. Of course, whether Dubas would have done anything is another story. Would probably have gone after more offence-minded defenceman anyway.

 

[Mess]

Big respect to you Mess, but, that's not what happened on the first goal.

The pass went across from the right D to the left D and Andersen is tracking it, I could see it quite clearly (even though i can't go to games and have to watch on tv/internet and you don't get as much view as you would if you were there live), but, Andy knows and senses, (cause both of his Dmen are to his left and the shot is coming from the his right side).

There's a opposing player bearing down on him or kind of in front of him, but, his Dmen are to his left and he's got to know that if and when the puck comes back off the boards, it's coming right to the opposing player and his dmen can't play it.

He could have (even shots that are quite wide of the net can easily be deflected, esp. since he was so far out) deflected it into the corner (maybe, again, i''m just saying this is a possibility), but, if he doesn't deflect it, which he didn't, he has to to be aware (i'm positive he was) that the puck is wide and coming hard back off the boards, and that's his mistake.

If he doesn't challenge and go out so far, but just moves over to the post, when the puck comes back off the boards, the player (whose too close him) has really nothing to shoot at, but, he's so far out, that he actually can turn around and the player is practically behind him and then taps it in.

Sorry, this is not a hindsight kind of thing, he just played it wrong, jmho.

In hindsight retrospectively now knowing it was going to rebound straight out in front Freddy could have played it better, but I look at it more as the number of big saves he made including that one on his pad that looked like it might have been in at first offsets that one as there other grade scoring chances the Sabres could have scored on if not for that one..


The Leafs team was flat most of the net and looked burnt out in front of Freddy, so even if Freddy stops that one goal of the 5 against Leafs still lose this game regardless. I just thought he gave the Leafs a chance to win particularly after it was 2-2 and even with 15 minutes left to play.

Often its easy to blame soft goaltending for a Leafs loss, but this was really anything but overall and the players, and coaching and other factors bigger reasons the Leafs lost.. Lack of effort and giveaways more the reason then Freddy on this night. IMHO

 

[The Podium]

Except for the fact we could have addressed our defence. Of course, whether Dubas would have done anything is another story. Would probably have gone after more offence-minded defenceman anyway.

Yup, that was more my point with the last comment. If the players took a discount we would be addressing the D before the depth. However, with Lilly and Sandin's play and Muzzin returning from injury, I think depth forwards and goaltending have actually been bigger issues for this team than D.

Considering Dubas' primary target this offseason was Brodie, I dont think his plan was ever to go after a more offence-minded D. Unfortunately for us, Barrie was, alternatively, the best D available that a team was willing to retain on in the offseason.

With that said, Nylander is paid appropriately, JT wasnt coming in at less than 11 so the only place to have saved was Marner and Matthews. Between them you can maybe make an argument for 2-2.5 mill savings total (9.5 and 10.5 respectively), so it isnt like you are getting a huge upgrade either at that money.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Asking a question for one of those "business of hockey" people. Say that, just for shits and giggles, that Tavares, Matthews, and Marner had a change of heart and they decided that winning was more important to them. Could they restructure their contracts to give the team cap relief they way some players do in the NFL?

 

[Rogie]

In hindsight retrospectively now knowing it was going to rebound straight out in front Freddy could have played it better, but I look at it more as the number of big saves he made including that one on his pad that looked like it might have been in at first offsets that one as there other grade scoring chances the Sabres could have scored on if not for that one..

Maybe Freddy doesn't know his physics that the angle of equal of incidence equals thes angle of refraction and expected a wide shot to rebound off in a different angle off the back boards then straight back on its own axis. .

The Leafs team was flat most of the net and looked burnt out in front of Freddy, so even if Freddy stops that one goal of the 5 against Leafs still lose this game regardless. I just thought he gave the Leafs a chance to win particularly after it was 2-2 and even with 15 minutes left to play.

Often its easy to blame soft goaltending for a Leafs loss, but this was really anything but overall and the players, and coaching and other factors bigger reasons the Leafs lost.. Lack of effort and giveaways more the reason then Freddy on this night. IMHO

Good post Mess, and I hear you, saying he kind of made up for it, because he made some other saves that kept them in the game.

We'll agree to disagree, AND you always make great points.

 

[Jack Flask]

Amazing all this analyzing the $ and cap space and why everyone is worth it.
Whats the incentive to put your body on the line and play in both ends with the same determination ? I do love the fancy suits and hats and sh** they are showing up to games in. Very entertaining .

 

[Mess]

Good post Mess, and I hear you, saying he kind of made up for it, because he made some other saves that kept them in the game.

We'll agree to disagree, AND you always make great points.

Maybe Freddy just doesn't know his Physics very well and that the angle of incidence equals the angle of refraction, and expected a wide shot to rebound in a different angle off the backboards then straight back on its own axis out front .

Perhaps he just needs a protractor and a compass to calculate his angles better.

 

[Rogie]

Maybe Freddy just doesn't know his Physics very well and that the angle of incidence equals the angle of refraction, and expected a wide shot to rebound in a different angle off the backboards then straight back on its own axis out front .

I wish i knew how to upload some funny emoticons, but, i don't, sorry mate

 

[56 Years No Cup]

I wish i knew how to upload some funny emoticons, but, i don't, sorry mate

If you're on a computer, in the comment box right above where it says "write your reply", click on the smiley face. There's tons of smilies choices in there.

 

[Rogie]

If you're on a computer, in the comment box right above where it says "write your reply", click on the smiley face. There's tons of smilies choices in there.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Just read the Habs had some atrocious one sidded Reffing as well. All momentum changing, willpower sapping type of penalties.

They played an American Team. Dallas.

This isnt even a conspiracy THEORY anymore.
I think they have MTL a last second PP so they can have a balanced stat

NBA not hating on Raps... gonna wear a red and Black

Bettman has ruined this Blue and White

 

[yubbers]

No. Just 2 trash teams who's fans are trying to rationalize it :p

 

[The CyNick]

Help yourself out and watch some games. It is apparent for all to see. My non-Maple Leaf fan friends admit it.

What does us getting bogus penalties have to do with the lack of obvious penalties not called against the team?

Maybe because we don't work hard in both zones to make refs think we earn penalties.

It's like a basketball team that only shoots from the outside and wonders why they don't get to the foul line. Maybe if we played a man's game we would draw more penalties, but when you shy away from any contact, it's not going to happen.

 

[paulhiggins]

Just read the Habs had some atrocious one sidded Reffing as well. All momentum changing, willpower sapping type of penalties.

They played an American Team. Dallas.

This isnt even a conspiracy THEORY anymore.
I think they have MTL a last second PP so they can have a balanced stat

NBA not hating on Raps... gonna wear a red and Black

Bettman has ruined this Blue and White

Yeah we're not the only Canadian team complaining. Here's the article from TSN:

Montreal Canadiens head coach Claude Julien fined $10K for post-game comments - TSN.ca

 

[Shanwhatplan]

You think faulting a player on one down year with clearly identifiable factors is better than applauding career averages and predictable inherent progression?

He hasnt built back value, he should have never had his name dragged through the mud. He definitely also has positive value on his contract considering he is producing at a 37 goal 73 point pace at 6.9 mill.

Nylander is the last player you trade at the moment, since he is the only one bringing back positive on his cap. The way to build a competitive roster is to have multiple players outplay their salary, and unfortunately for the Leafs right now they only have 2 (Nylander and Hyman).

Too bad Dubas gave Nylander his word that he wouldn’t trade him. Smh

 

[Carltons Cup]

Yeah we're not the only Canadian team complaining. Here's the article from TSN:

Montreal Canadiens head coach Claude Julien fined $10K for post-game comments - TSN.ca

I despise the Habs, but Julien was correct in his criticism. I saw some of the missed calls on the Habs and they were pretty blatant and obvious....

Since they're already toast, it doesn't matter as much.

 

[Shanwhatplan]

Yup, that was more my point with the last comment. If the players took a discount we would be addressing the D before the depth. However, with Lilly and Sandin's play and Muzzin returning from injury, I think depth forwards and goaltending have actually been bigger issues for this team than D.

Considering Dubas' primary target this offseason was Brodie, I dont think his plan was ever to go after a more offence-minded D. Unfortunately for us, Barrie was, alternatively, the best D available that a team was willing to retain on in the offseason.

With that said, Nylander is paid appropriately, JT wasnt coming in at less than 11 so the only place to have saved was Marner and Matthews. Between them you can maybe make an argument for 2-2.5 mill savings total (9.5 and 10.5 respectively), so it isnt like you are getting a huge upgrade either at that money.

You are absolutely right! So the question then becomes, was it the right move to sign Tavares? I really like Tavares, but to me, it never made sense that we would knowingly spend at least $20,000,000 on two centers. Am I the only one who thinks that alone would make it extremely difficult to upgrade the defence?
But then again, hindsight is always 20/20. So what can we do to fix our problems? As some have said, to bring in a difference maker on defence, it’s going to take Nylander or Marner. I’m not sure how I feel about whether we could get fair value for Marner. I definitely like what he brings to the table. How many of you feel he is way overpaid (I agree he is overpaid, just not sure by how much)? And would we have to retain, or take back a bad contract, if he were to be traded?

 

[Iapyi]

Maybe because we don't work hard in both zones to make refs think we earn penalties.

It's like a basketball team that only shoots from the outside and wonders why they don't get to the foul line. Maybe if we played a man's game we would draw more penalties, but when you shy away from any contact, it's not going to happen.

We are seeing blatant obvious penalties against us that are not being called. It's as simple as that. No need putting an extra onus on ourselves.

I'm not the kind of guy who wants to blame the refs for a loss.

I am the kind of guy who isn't going to blindly pretend that there is not a bias against us when there clearly is.

I have no problem speaking the truth even though some may see it as a cop out.

It is what it is. Acting like it doesn't exist accomplishes nothing and is an ostrich with his head in the sand type of thing.

 

[ToneDog]

You are absolutely right! So the question then becomes, was it the right move to sign Tavares? I really like Tavares, but to me, it never made sense that we would knowingly spend at least $20,000,000 on two centers. Am I the only one who thinks that alone would make it extremely difficult to upgrade the defence?

Yup but JT and AM make $22.634 and not $20M. Willie is slightly overpaid but his cap hit does not put you into a bind until you sign Marner at $11M. A bridge deal like Point's would have given Dubas some cap room to makes other moves over the summer but he gave into Marner's desire for a long term deal.

So here we are battling the pathetic Panthers for a playoff spot because the WC team's from the Metro are leaving us behind.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Yup but JT and AM make $22.634 and not $20M. Willie is slightly overpaid but his cap hit does not put you into a bind until you sign Marner at $11M. A bridge deal like Point's would have given Dubas some cap room to makes other moves over the summer but he gave into Marner's desire for a long term deal.

So here we are battling the pathetic Panthers for a playoff spot because the WC team's from the Metro are leaving us behind.

Willy overpaid?

What's the going rate for a 30 goal 70 point forwards these days?

 

[Rogie]

We are seeing blatant obvious penalties against us that are not being called. It's as simple as that. No need putting an extra onus on ourselves.

I'm not the kind of guy who wants to blame the refs for a loss.

I am the kind of guy who isn't going to blindly pretend that there is not a bias against us when there clearly is.

I have no problem speaking the truth even though some may see it as a cop out.

It is what it is. Acting like it doesn't exist accomplishes nothing and is an ostrich with his head in the sand type of thing.

Really, the Leafs, are the 5 th least penalized team in the league. But, carry on indeed.

 

[The Podium]

Really, the Leafs, are the 5 th least penalized team in the league. But, carry on indeed.

The Leafs are 28th in PP opportunities this season, 31st last season, 29th the season prior. If you average the last 3 seasons, they are 30th, ahead of only Anaheim, for least PP opportunities.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

you think selling scraps gets us teh d help we need? It doesn't. Our D core needs a commander. 1 of our big 4 needs to be a top dog D man. Can't have 5

Kapanen, Dermott aren't scraps ...

Patience is needed for us fans, we already have Rielly coming back soon. No reason to overreact and sell prized assets when our top-dog already exists but is injured.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

I honestly have no idea what these guys would be worth. I believe Muzzin is a solid, shut down defenceman, but I’m not sure Justin Holl is the right partner. Maybe in a few years, yes, but he’s not ready yet. And I would be totally fine with trading Dermott. So we probably could find the missing partner for Muzzin with these pieces. Question is, would our bottom six also be able to get addressed with these trade chips?

Holl is 26 years old already. IMO he was better than Muzzin yesterday.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I fully agree it's risky now. But as I said in another thread, with the solid rookie d-men coming up we need someone that runs the blue line. ANd Willy is the best chip to do so imho. I wouldn't move AM for anything less than McJesus. Marners contract is so bad I don't even think it's possible without us getting the short end of the stick so what's the point? Unless you do like a Doughty for Marner. Maybe Kings would roll the dice on that straight up. They need youth. I'm a big Willy hater but he's almost looked better this year than Marns.

Yikes, this is some awful valuation