Post-Game Talk: Sabres/Refs 5 Leafs 2

[Wafflewhipper]

Kerfoot is the most useless player on this team. I can’t stand this do nothing fly by stick checking softie. Everything he does is weak. He’s really overstayed his welcome already for me personally. Useless player

 

[Drytoast]

It's not the refs fault we had a brain fart in the third

 

[Green Snow Storm]

Kerfoot is the most useless player on this team. I can’t stand this do nothing fly by stick checking softie. Everything he does is weak. He’s really overstayed his welcome already for me personally. Useless player

His money would be better spent on the backend that's for sure.

 

[sparxx87]

Or a few refs grew up disliking Toronto and got their panties in a bunch when Babcock called them out publicly, and that latent bias turns 50/50 calls into 49/51 calls.

A team this skilled drawing the least amount of penalties over a 3 year sample size where they out-possessed the field makes absolutely 0 sense. Game management and subconscious ref bias leads to unbalanced outcomes without the need for an actual conspiracy.

Team that plays non-physical, low intensity hockey doesn’t draw a lot of penalties? You don’t say!

 

[Shanwhatplan]

That was the most Lazy stand around puck watching debaucle I have ever witnessed, this team looked liked they needed geritol as they all played like they were 75 freakin years old, If I was the coach I would have been put in jail as I would of cuffed the back of their helmets and freaked on them from being embarrassed at a bottom team cycling the &^% out of us for 2 (*&^ periods where we barely could get out of our zone as we stood around with this DUMBARSE 2 step trying to defend in our own zone. I surely hope the team was riddled with the flu or something for an excuse for that absolute tired display of hockey, a little life to begin the 3rd just does not cut it these are valuable points which again in the month of Feb they are pissing away. Yes the officiating sucked but this team played like they jogged all the way down the QEW to Buffalo with a no show and no gas, we were beaten to every puck and out skated, NO excuse unless every player was flu ridden.

There is definitely something wrong with this team, especially with how it’s built. I don’t have any stats, but have we beaten any playoff-worthy team in the 2nd game of a b2b this season? And what about games where it wasn’t b2b, but we failed to show up for extended periods?
From what I hear, Muzzin isn’t afraid to speak up, and when he does, I believe he intends to back it up. The other “leaders”, I wonder if it’s just lip service? Hopefully not, but actions do speak louder than words.

 

[GoBuds14]

I have been paying attention to poor refereeing league wide. Its brutal and discipline is brutal. Players and coaches are fed up and snapping all over the league. It is a real issue. It is so hard to rationalize with many calls that it looks like ulterior motives are underlying

This is a separate argument. What I’m saying is
people are blaming the refs and not acknowledging the pathetic performance by the team. Fans always think the Refs are biased towards the other team because bad calls always stick out more when it’s against your team. The Refs absolutely did not cost Toronto that game. A few bad calls didn’t help the cause sure, but you can’t put forth an effort like that in a playoff chase against an inferior team, you can’t.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I am curious: why do the Leafs allow 3+ goals with Freddy, but with Campbell they have allowed 2 or less in all of his starts except one? Just sample size? Or is there something more to it? Just a question, not hating on Freddy. I just want to know what's the deal? He played well despite the 5 goals against

 

[Martin Skoula]

Team that plays non-physical, low intensity hockey doesn’t draw a lot of penalties? You don’t say!

Wanna explain how to be physical when you are in possession of the puck and are actually eligible to draw a penalty?

Why are other skill-first teams like Colorado are among the leaders in penalties drawn?

Matthews has drawn 4 penalties all year. Do you think that a guy with 42 goals in February is so easy to stop that you can do it clean other than 4 times?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

There’s already been speculation that the leafs players are all about the money. It seems they play that way. It seems when negotiating contracts, defensive play and actually winning accounts for almost nothing. It’s just goals/points.

And that’s what it’s been looking like recently. A team full of players trying to make more money. Not actually win.

At times yesterday, my mind was playing tricks on me and it looked like the leaf players were wearing business suits instead of jerseys, and holding briefcases instead of hockey sticks.

 

[Superstar]

This is a separate argument. What I’m saying is
people are blaming the refs and not acknowledging the pathetic performance by the team. Fans always think the Refs are biased towards the other team because bad calls always stick out more when it’s against your team. The Refs absolutely did not cost Toronto that game. A few bad calls didn’t help the cause sure, but you can’t put forth an effort like that in a playoff chase against an inferior team, you can’t.

Bad and corrupt officiating and bad team play are not mutually exclusive...yes, the team played badly, but the refs made sure the Leafs took a loss on this one...once the Leafs tied the game 2-2 in the 3rd, the refs were looking to call the next penalty on the Leafs and they did...they didn't give the Leafs a PP until it was 5-2 with the game almost done so the figures don't look too bias on the game log...a mockery...I watched the game and there were opportunities that they could have called a couple on Buffalo earlier in the game, but chose to turn a blind eye. These refs should not be officiating games in pros sports at the NHL level...you expect this in a beer league.

 

[Superstar]

It's not the refs fault we had a brain fart in the third

But they made sure Buffalo got a power play once the Leafs tied the game.

 

[Iapyi]

Maybe it's because I watch more hockey (ie other teams) than most, but I don't see any bias whatsoever. I see a gutless team that floats through large stretches of games and goes to get by on skill alone.

I watch more hockey at all levels then basically every person I know. While I don't disagree with your summary of our team it has nothing to do with the slanted officiating that takes place.

 

[sparxx87]

Wanna explain how to be physical when you are in possession of the puck and are actually eligible to draw a penalty?

Why are other skill-first teams like Colorado are among the leaders in penalties drawn?

Matthews has drawn 4 penalties all year. Do you think that a guy with 42 goals in February is so easy to stop that you can do it clean other than 4 times?

Since when do you need to be in possession of puck to draw a penalty? Playing hard and battling for position will most certainly result in a fair share of interference and roughing penalties.

Colorado has a nasty, intense captain whose not afraid to mix it up and the team follows suit. They’re an excellent blend of skill and grit - you’ll even see MacKinnon mix it up and play a little nasty from time to time. They were also able to swindle a player like Nazem Kadri from a foolish GM in favour of two of the least intense players you’ll see in professional sports... Its these high intensity players that seem to elevate when the stakes are high... The Avalanche have been a lot of fun to watch this year.

Matthews is allergic to contact. If he’d ever drop his shoulder and drive the net the odd time, he’d most certainly draw holding/hooking/tripping penalties pretty regularly... but if he doesn’t have a lane he’ll slam on the brakes and spin off or try to dangle.. He doesn’t embrace contact so he’s never really putting any physical pressure on the defence.


The team is full of players who don’t embrace contact so it’s pretty predictable that they won’t draw a lot of penalties. This shouldn’t have to be explained to you.

 

[GoBuds14]

Bad and corrupt officiating and bad team play are not mutually exclusive...yes, the team played badly, but the refs made sure the Leafs took a loss on this one...once the Leafs tied the game 2-2 in the 3rd, the refs were looking to call the next penalty on the Leafs and they did...they didn't give the Leafs a PP until it was 5-2 with the game almost done so the figures don't look too bias on the game log...a mockery...I watched the game and there were opportunities that they could have called a couple on Buffalo earlier in the game, but chose to turn a blind eye. These refs should not be officiating games in pros sports at the NHL level...you expect this in a beer league.

I see the same complaints in Soccer, NBA and the NFL, it’s not mutually exclusive to the NHL, whenever a team loses you’ll see fans immediately jump on the Refs fair or not. Guess what the common denominator is? Human error, it happens.

 

[Stephen]

I see the same complaints in Soccer, NBA and the NFL, it’s not mutually exclusive to the NHL, whenever a team loses you’ll see fans immediately jump on the Refs fair or not. Guess what the common denominator is? Human error, it happens.

Human error doesn't award penalties 3-0 in favor of one team, with the third specifically after the game is tied 2-2, with a token PP at the end of the game to make it 3-1. That feels specifically managed especially when the penalties called are all of the cheap hooking variety that happens on every play.

 

[The CyNick]

I watch more hockey at all levels then basically every person I know. While I don't disagree with your summary of our team it has nothing to do with the slanted officiating that takes place.

There's no slanted officiating. If you watched more hockey, you would see that, instead of only looking at everything being a conspiracy against the leafs.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Human error doesn't award penalties 3-0 in favor of one team, with the third specifically after the game is tied 2-2, with a token PP at the end of the game to make it 3-1. That feels specifically managed especially when the penalties called are all of the cheap hooking variety that happens on every play.

First, yes, human error can do that, but more importantly, good officiating can, if the calls are legit,which they were. Ok, the third call was iffy, but if you are going to let your man come out of the corner and into the slot that easily, and then reach out with your stick, you're asking for a penalty.

I saw Muzzin, Matthews, and Dermott, with one each, and Hyman with several, but I don't think anyone else won a single one-on-one battle.

 

[GoBuds14]

Human error doesn't award penalties 3-0 in favor of one team, with the third specifically after the game is tied 2-2, with a token PP at the end of the game to make it 3-1. That feels specifically managed especially when the penalties called are all of the cheap hooking variety that happens on every play.

Nope that’s human error. The game is incredibly fast and the Refs make a quick decision. Remember, we have the luxury of instant replay, slow motion and multiple camera angles.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Human error doesn't award penalties 3-0 in favor of one team, with the third specifically after the game is tied 2-2, with a token PP at the end of the game to make it 3-1. That feels specifically managed especially when the penalties called are all of the cheap hooking variety that happens on every play.

Remove Buffalo's 1 PP goal, and the final score is 4-2 Buffalo.
Maybe it had something to do with being outshot 28-12 in the first 2 periods, Toronto was chasing the game,
Could of been a 5 on 3 for buffalo for too many men, refs biased towards leafs there, feels managed.

 

[hockeyes]

Since when do you need to be in possession of puck to draw a penalty? Playing hard and battling for position will most certainly result in a fair share of interference and roughing penalties.

Colorado has a nasty, intense captain whose not afraid to mix it up and the team follows suit. They’re an excellent blend of skill and grit - you’ll even see MacKinnon mix it up and play a little nasty from time to time. They were also able to swindle a player like Nazem Kadri from a foolish GM in favour of two of the least intense players you’ll see in professional sports... Its these high intensity players that seem to elevate when the stakes are high... The Avalanche have been a lot of fun to watch this year.

Matthews is allergic to contact. If he’d ever drop his shoulder and drive the net the odd time, he’d most certainly draw holding/hooking/tripping penalties pretty regularly... but if he doesn’t have a lane he’ll slam on the brakes and spin off or try to dangle.. He doesn’t embrace contact so he’s never really putting any physical pressure on the defence.


The team is full of players who don’t embrace contact so it’s pretty predictable that they won’t draw a lot of penalties. This shouldn’t have to be explained to you.

I agree but it doesn't explain why holds and trips made by opposing players trying to get the puck back in the offensive zone are almost never called. Nobody expects them to be league leaders in power plays with their allergy to physicality but that doesn't mean other teams should get blank checks to do whatever they want, these plays directly lead to goals constantly. Believe it or not, a penalty can be committed anywhere on the ice and doesn't require someone driving the net with no chance at making a play to be called.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

There's no slanted officiating. If you watched more hockey, you would see that, instead of only looking at everything being a conspiracy against the leafs.

Since the 2016/2017 season, the leafs are DEAD LAST in pp time on ice (other than Vegas for obvious reasons). The gap between the leafs and the top pp toi team is almost THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY minutes.

I mean... at some point something strange is going on.

Also, way back when the leafs were full of non skill grinders, we were contstantly told "It's the young skill teams that draw penalties". And I thought "Oh great, can't wait till we're a young skill team." And now here we are. The leafs are arbuably the YOUNGEST most SKILLED team in the league. And STILL no PP's. Now we're told "It's the team full of unskilled grinders that draw penalties".

It's bullshit.

I'm starting to really entertain the idea that something bigger is going on.

 

[Iapyi]

There's no slanted officiating. If you watched more hockey, you would see that, instead of only looking at everything being a conspiracy against the leafs.

I strongly suspect I watch more hockey then you. I watch multiple games involving every team in the league.

The officiating is terrible in virtually every game I watch. Doesn't change things. I have never said there is a conspiracy. You are drawing hasty conclusions.

 

[The CyNick]

Since the 2016/2017 season, the leafs are DEAD LAST in pp time on ice (other than Vegas for obvious reasons). The gap between the leafs and the top pp toi team is almost THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY minutes.

I mean... at some point something strange is going on.

Also, way back when the leafs were full of non skill grinders, we were contstantly told "It's the young skill teams that draw penalties". And I thought "Oh great, can't wait till we're a young skill team." And now here we are. The leafs are arbuably the YOUNGEST most SKILLED team in the league. And STILL no PP's. Now we're told "It's the team full of unskilled grinders that draw penalties".

It's bull****.

I'm starting to really entertain the idea that something bigger is going on.

So the league wants the highest revenue generating team to lose? You would think Rogers would fight this, but maybe they're in on it too.

 

[TVs Frank]

Or a few refs grew up disliking Toronto and got their panties in a bunch when Babcock called them out publicly, and that latent bias turns 50/50 calls into 49/51 calls.

A team this skilled drawing the least amount of penalties over a 3 year sample size where they out-possessed the field makes absolutely 0 sense. Game management and subconscious ref bias leads to unbalanced outcomes without the need for an actual conspiracy.

Last night before the Leafs/Sabres game I watched a bit of the Canucks/Ducks games. A Vancouver player blatantly tripped an Anaheim player right at the face-off circle a few feet from the Vancouver net and no call was made. Even the Vancouver announcers were shaking their heads in disbelief. Is it an example of a league-wide conspiracy against Anaheim? No. It was a blown call. It happens. It happens to Anaheim, it happens to us.
We draw the fewest penalties and get called for the fewest penalties. Why? Because we play a soft, offensive style of hockey. Toronto has the third lowest hits per game in the NHL. If you hit the other team they get mad and retaliate and go to the box. If you don’t hit you don’t draw penalties. Try to name a single agitator on our team since Kadri left. The Bruins hit a lot, have agitators like Marchand and some would say are a dirty team and guess what, they get a lot of penalties called against them and draw a lot of penalties. No conspiracy, just different styles of play.

 

[The CyNick]

I strongly suspect I watch more hockey then you. I watch multiple games involving every team in the league.

The officiating is terrible in virtually every game I watch. Doesn't change things. I have never said there is a conspiracy. You are drawing hasty conclusions.

So your assertion is that the refs are equally bad for every team? If so, I am good with that. I believe the quality of officiating is much higher than other leagues, but at least we agree there is no conspiracy against the leafs.