Post-Game Talk: Sabres/Refs 5 Leafs 2

[klmdg]

There's no slanted officiating. If you watched more hockey, you would see that, instead of only looking at everything being a conspiracy against the leafs.

After Wideman nailed a linesman, the Flames became the most penalized team in the league by a country mile for the next two seasons. They then hired former officials to "teach" them how to not take penalties and went back to being mid-pack in the penalties taken department. Coincidence???

 

[The CyNick]

After Wideman nailed a linesman, the Flames became the most penalized team in the league by a country mile for the next two seasons. They then hired former officials to "teach" them how to not take penalties and went back to being mid-pack in the penalties taken department. Coincidence???

Probably.

 

[TVs Frank]

Wanna explain how to be physical when you are in possession of the puck and are actually eligible to draw a penalty?

Why are other skill-first teams like Colorado are among the leaders in penalties drawn?

Matthews has drawn 4 penalties all year. Do you think that a guy with 42 goals in February is so easy to stop that you can do it clean other than 4 times?

Colorado has agitators like Kadri who take penalties but also draw penalties. A style of play that emphasizes peripheral passes looking for an open Matthews on the face-off circle will likely generate fewer penalties than a team that puts bodies in front of opposition nets.

 

[Azazel]

The title of this thread should be gas-lighting 101

 

[Iapyi]

So your assertion is that the refs are equally bad for every team? If so, I am good with that. I believe the quality of officiating is much higher than other leagues, but at least we agree there is no conspiracy against the leafs.

I do not think there is a 'conspiracy' nor have I ever said that. I do believe there is a bias against the team.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

This is a separate argument. What I’m saying is
people are blaming the refs and not acknowledging the pathetic performance by the team. Fans always think the Refs are biased towards the other team because bad calls always stick out more when it’s against your team. The Refs absolutely did not cost Toronto that game. A few bad calls didn’t help the cause sure, but you can’t put forth an effort like that in a playoff chase against an inferior team, you can’t.

These guys don’t help themselves either. We are not a contender with this group and its nothing to do with the top 4 because they are carrying their weight.

 

[Superstar]

I see the same complaints in Soccer, NBA and the NFL, it’s not mutually exclusive to the NHL, whenever a team loses you’ll see fans immediately jump on the Refs fair or not. Guess what the common denominator is? Human error, it happens.

Human error is an excuse for bias officiating...so is "the game is too fast" when the same pattern keeps happening...the Leafs have been at the bottom or close to the bottom of the league for the last few years for power play opportunities ever since they drafted Matthews and became good.

 

[NikoEhlers]

I'm basically open to trading anyone besides Matthews (even tho I want him to become a more complete player), Muzzin, Sandin, Reilly, Hyman and our 2 new players, to build a team with more compete and ability to play without the puck. The team run out of gas way too easily and just fold completely. I'm not gonna be blaming our defending alone on our blueliners, this is a team issue where the other team simply outwork us. I also wouldnt trade Andersen until we've fixed our play without the puck. I am a little scared that Dubas didnt see the problems already last season, but the structure under Babs probably fooled him. Or else the Kerfoot/Barrie for Kadri trade make him look like he doesnt understand that part of the game.

 

[sparxx87]

I agree but it doesn't explain why holds and trips made by opposing players trying to get the puck back in the offensive zone are almost never called. Nobody expects them to be league leaders in power plays with their allergy to physicality but that doesn't mean other teams should get blank checks to do whatever they want, these plays directly lead to goals constantly. Believe it or not, a penalty can be committed anywhere on the ice and doesn't require someone driving the net with no chance at making a play to be called.

I think in some instances referees see certain players soft on the puck so they’re less inclined to call a marginal penalty when these players are taken down or knocked off of it.

It’s the unconscious bias that all humans are guilty of, but it has nothing to do with what jersey they’re wearing.

 

[The CyNick]

I do not think there is a 'conspiracy' nor have I ever said that. I do believe there is a bias against the team.

I don't think you are correct. Making an accusation like that should require evidence on your part. I haven't seen any. People are upset that Muzzin made yet another bad read and tripped a player to make up for it. The refs correctly called the penalty. Our team folded on the PK and then went into a shell and gave up an easy two points. Somehow that's bias against the Leafs.

 

[LaPlante94]

I do not think there is a 'conspiracy' nor have I ever said that. I do believe there is a bias against the team.

Why would that be then? We haven't really called out officiating that much at all and we're one of the top franchises in the league when it comes to revenue and all that so why would they want to screw us like that. It's simple really, we'll skate when we have the puck but without it we float around and that leads to taking penalties.

 

[klmdg]

Probably.

Yep, pure coincidence here

 

[The CyNick]

Yep, pure coincidence here

So what did the Leafs do to upset the refs? Maybe we should hire some ex officials and fix this thing once and for all?

 

[GoBuds14]

Human error is an excuse for bias officiating...so is "the game is too fast" when the same pattern keeps happening...the Leafs have been at the bottom or close to the bottom of the league for the last few years for power play opportunities ever since they drafted Matthews and became good.

That’s surface level analysis. If you can’t see the correlation between personnel and style of play as to why the leafs don’t draw many penalties than I can’t help ya.

 

[TVs Frank]

Human error is an excuse for bias officiating...so is "the game is too fast" when the same pattern keeps happening...the Leafs have been at the bottom or close to the bottom of the league for the last few years for power play opportunities ever since they drafted Matthews and became good.

Oh for Pete’s sake. The Leafs are at the bottom of the league for penalties against as well. Look up the stats. How is it a bias against the Leafs if refs rarely put our players in the box? We are not a physical team. Physical teams draw penalties and get called for penalties because they play an aggressive, physical style that draws attention from refs and retaliation from opposing players. This might mean hitting a lot (we are one of the lowest hitting teams in the league) or having players that are aggressive in front of the net (we tend to pass around the periphery) or players that drive the net, like McDavid (who is at the top of the league in drawing penalties, btw vs. Matthews who prefers to shoot from the face-off circle).

 

[hockeyes]

Colorado has agitators like Kadri who take penalties but also draw penalties. A style of play that emphasizes peripheral passes looking for an open Matthews on the face-off circle will likely generate fewer penalties than a team that puts bodies in front of opposition nets.

Kadri has increased his penalties drawn per game by 26% vs his last 3 years in Toronto, I'm sure that is entirely due to adjustments he's made after forgetting how to draw penalties for so long.

 

[TVs Frank]

Fun fact:
2018-2019 (Jan 1st to Feb 16th) = .553 %
2019-2020 (Jan 1st to Feb 16th) = .553 %

We've went through a similar rough patch last year. The difference this year we've had Andersen/Hutchinson play poorly, but it seems like Andersen/Campbell have started playing much better. Rielly and Mikheyev are injured.

And we had 76 points after 60 games last year vs 70 this year. Those 6 points may not seem like a lot but would have meant us missing the playoffs last year.

 

[TVs Frank]

Kadri has increased his penalties drawn per game by 26% vs his last 3 years in Toronto, I'm sure that is entirely due to adjustments he's made after forgetting how to draw penalties for so long.

Hard to draw penalties when you are suspended. Just ask Marchand who took a few years to control his temper and now is one of the best at drawing penalties. Looks like Kadri is becoming a more mature agitator.

 

[hockeyes]

Hard to draw penalties when you are suspended. Just ask Marchand who took a few years to control his temper and now is one of the best at drawing penalties. Looks like Kadri is becoming a more mature agitator.

You are right, players typically enter the league very mature for their first 4 years, become immature for 3 years, then become mature again all the time.

 

[Shanwhatplan]

These guys don’t help themselves either. We are not a contender with this group and its nothing to do with the top 4 because they are carrying their weight.

Actually, I think it has a lot to do with the top 4. Too much money spent on them, not enough to spend on areas where we need improvement.

 

[steam whistle]

When our big Boys don't score, we are not deserved to win.

 

[steam whistle]

Actually, I think it has a lot to do with the top 4. Too much money spent on them, not enough to spend on areas where we need improvement.

At least marner doesn't worth that much compared with rattanna's contract

 

[Superstar]

Oh for Pete’s sake. The Leafs are at the bottom of the league for penalties against as well. Look up the stats. How is it a bias against the Leafs if refs rarely put our players in the box? We are not a physical team. Physical teams draw penalties and get called for penalties because they play an aggressive, physical style that draws attention from refs and retaliation from opposing players. This might mean hitting a lot (we are one of the lowest hitting teams in the league) or having players that are aggressive in front of the net (we tend to pass around the periphery) or players that drive the net, like McDavid (who is at the top of the league in drawing penalties, btw vs. Matthews who prefers to shoot from the face-off circle).

This is nonsense...Tampa Bay is not a physical team, but draw more penalties with their speed and skill game, a similar speed and skill game the Leafs play...and stop looking at just raw stats...they don't tell the story...watch the games, lots of them...refs will give the Leafs powerplays during garbage time to even things out over time, like last night when they handed the Leafs their first powerplay opportunity when it was already 5-2 with minutes left in the game...it's game management. It's funny that folks think that the NHL and it's officiating is infallible...no human created institution is infallible...there's bias and corruption, it's human nature...the Raptors have been getting the short end of the stick on officiating for years and years, and they were blatant.

And driving the net and getting hooked is the obvious one, but getting hooked, interfered with and held onto behind the play is not so obvious, and the Leafs don't get many of those calls while their opponents do.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Colorado has agitators like Kadri who take penalties but also draw penalties. A style of play that emphasizes peripheral passes looking for an open Matthews on the face-off circle will likely generate fewer penalties than a team that puts bodies in front of opposition nets.

We had Kadri and still finished bottom-3 lol. Teams that have the puck should be drawing penalties, even if we never hit a single time we should still be drawing more hooking and holding calls than teams that don't have the puck as much.

 

[Superstar]

Hard to draw penalties when you are suspended. Just ask Marchand who took a few years to control his temper and now is one of the best at drawing penalties. Looks like Kadri is becoming a more mature agitator.

Marchand and the Bruins have George Parros in their back pocket...stop using him as an example...in the last couple of years, he's committed checks to the head, pushed players dangerously into the board (a similar play to the 2 game suspension Kerfoot got), even licked Komarov on the face, and got nothing. It's like they want to wipe the history books clean with Marchand and paint him as a saint because his next suspension won't be 2 games due to his past history. Chara has been taking cheap shots at opposing players for years, and only recently received a $5,000 fine for crosschecking Gallagher on the FACE, which is a blatant head shot the league is trying to crap down on.