Friedman: Sabres ask on Eichel is still huge

[Crazy8oooo]

Is this Ducks fans just hilariously exaggerating this or is the Ducks future way more bleak than it seems on paper? I'm looking at their roster and I fundamentally can't understand how someone can argue that the Ducks future would be shot if they traded #3 overall, Comtois, Perreault and Dostal for Eichel.

Even if you take out all of those assets, they still have a pretty solid collection of young NHL talent in Steel, Terry, Larsson, Fleury, Jones, Lundestrom, Guhle and Milano. Sure, maybe all of those guys don't end up hitting their upside, but once you have your elite players figured out, you don't need those guys to hit their upsides. You just need to get solid players out of it. They also have a decent amount of tradable assets in Lindholm, Rakell, Shattenkirk, Silfverberg and Fowler.

Idk, I just really feel like a GM would have to be really bad at their job to not be able to turn Eichel, Zegras, Drysdale and Gibson plus everything else into at least a contender. This is even more true if Anaheim keeps Lindholm, which they should IMO. They have 4 (5 if they keep Lindholm) of their most important positions figured out.

Eichel's a great player. However, the Ducks are terrible. The Ducks were second to last in goals per game. They only have 2 bonafide top 6 forwards, one of which is Comtois. Sure, Eichel's production would replace him, and then some. But Perrault is probably their best shot from their prospect pool at becoming a top 6 forward. The 3rd overall would also have a good shot at becoming a top 6 forward, assuming they select a forward. So, with that trade, they're giving up 3 possible top 6 forwards for 1. Never mind that Eichel is better than each of them individually, the Ducks needs multiple top 6 forwards in order to become competitive again. Trading away the only ones they have isn't exactly a great idea. Yes, they'd still have Rakell, but he's only signed for one more year and could walk.

I'm not saying Eichel isn't worth that...I'm saying the Ducks aren't exactly in the best of positions to make that move. I think, as gets2noone said, if they were to make that move, Perrault would need to be swapped out with someone like Steel/Lundestrom.

BTW, none of the pieces that you mentioned as being a solid young collection of NHL talent have shown that they will become anything special. Most of them have not lived up to expectations.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

I'd make any trade instantly as ducks fan for eichel that doesn't include zegras, drysdale, lindholm or gibson. Anyone else can go but obviously depends on how many pieces and what pieces.

3rd overall, comtois or perreault, lundestrom or steel, henrique, dostal plus another prospect (Brayden Tracey?) or pick is an easy yes from me.

Because of how difficult it is to get a 1c, I probably do it too...but logically speaking, it's a bad time for the Ducks to have this opportunity. Another couple of drafts worth of prospects, would be ideal. That's why the Kings seem like a perfect destination, because they're a couple of years ahead in their prospect pool.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Idk to me you get eichel(let’s say comtois + 3rd + doslal + steel) .
Sign 1 of palmeiri/Hoffman

Rakell eichel palmeiri
Henrique zegras terry
Jones Lundy silfverberg
Rowney getzlaf des

lindholm drysdale
Fowler Manson
Fluery shatt

Gibson

looks fairly solid to me, maybe find a trade for Henrique for a physical left winger that can play on that line( like a josh Anderson or even foligno )

I think they're still pretty weak with that lineup, but I'd do it since you substituted Perrault with Steel.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Eichel's a great player. However, the Ducks are terrible. The Ducks were second to last in goals per game. They only have 2 bonafide top 6 forwards, one of which is Comtois. Sure, Eichel's production would replace him, and then some. But Perrault is probably their best shot from their prospect pool at becoming a top 6 forward. The 3rd overall would also have a good shot at becoming a top 6 forward, assuming they select a forward. So, with that trade, they're giving up 3 possible top 6 forwards for 1. Never mind that Eichel is better than each of them individually, the Ducks needs multiple top 6 forwards in order to become competitive again. Trading away the only ones they have isn't exactly a great idea. Yes, they'd still have Rakell, but he's only signed for one more year and could walk.

I'm not saying Eichel isn't worth that...I'm saying the Ducks aren't exactly in the best of positions to make that move. I think, as gets2noone said, if they were to make that move, Perrault would need to be swapped out with someone like Steel/Lundestrom.

BTW, none of the pieces that you mentioned as being a solid young collection of NHL talent have shown that they will become anything special. Most of them have not lived up to expectations.

But like I said with the other guy, you do not need any of those guys to become "anything special". You need them to become serviceable depth players, that's it. You need 1 or 2 of those depth guys to become decent middle-6 options, and 2 or 3 of them to become decent bottom-6 options. That's really about it. With that core, you have all of your hardest to acquire positions lined up. You don't need to surround a Zegras-Eichel center group with guys on par with Kucherov, Panarin or Draisaitl. You need to put good complements who can do well in the role.

Not only that, but you do not need 6 top-6 forwards if you have Zegras and Eichel as your 1-2 duo, if Zegras ends up as good as he projects. Know how I know that? My team won 3 cups without 6 top-6 forwards.

If you keep Terry, have Steel establish himself as a decent playmaking middle-6 winger and get Jones and Lundestrom as decent 3rd liners, you're pretty well set. You still need to add some pieces, but you're pretty well set.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

I feel like you just type out the worst possible out comes in every post you make, kinda obnoxious

If we're basing it on the past couple of years, he's not really wrong. Most of the prospects have been a disappointment and our vets have sucked.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

Eichel's a great player. However, the Ducks are terrible. The Ducks were second to last in goals per game. They only have 2 bonafide top 6 forwards, one of which is Comtois. Sure, Eichel's production would replace him, and then some. But Perrault is probably their best shot from their prospect pool at becoming a top 6 forward. The 3rd overall would also have a good shot at becoming a top 6 forward, assuming they select a forward. So, with that trade, they're giving up 3 possible top 6 forwards for 1. Never mind that Eichel is better than each of them individually, the Ducks needs multiple top 6 forwards in order to become competitive again. Trading away the only ones they have isn't exactly a great idea. Yes, they'd still have Rakell, but he's only signed for one more year and could walk.

I'm not saying Eichel isn't worth that...I'm saying the Ducks aren't exactly in the best of positions to make that move. I think, as gets2noone said, if they were to make that move, Perrault would need to be swapped out with someone like Steel/Lundestrom.

BTW, none of the pieces that you mentioned as being a solid young collection of NHL talent have shown that they will become anything special. Most of them have not lived up to expectations.

Eichel is signed for 5 more years though. It's not like you have to be a cup contender right away. Having Eichel, Zegras, and Drysdale would be a great foundation to build on.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Again, the Ducks won't need to acquire anything that valuable.

I'm going to lump Lindholm in here too because the Ducks should keep him. They would have their 5 most important positions figured out. What do you need a lot of "value" there to add? They have a ton of young players who can fill depth roles, and it's not farfetched to say that a couple of those young guys can surprise and end up more than depth players. What significantly valuable players would need to be acquired by Anaheim? Why can't Anaheim take one of those younger bottom-6 players and attach a #1 pick and a prospect to get a top-6 upgrade when they're ready to contend?

Your opinion isn't "negative", it's completely unrealistic and unreasonable for how teams build cup contenders. I'm using the Penguins because I'm the most familiar with them. The Penguins didn't win back to back cups in 2016 and 2017 because they hoarded high value assets. They won because:

1. They had an elite core
2. Ray Shero made a lot of really good draft picks from 2010-2013 that started yielding benefits in 2015.
3. Jim Rutherford made a lot of really good and really bold trades
4. They hired an elite coach in Mike Sullivan

They did this while having 1 top-10 pick (that ended up a bust) and generally not having any sort of elite prospects (outside of Sprong for a hot second). Adding Eichel would lock the Ducks into having #1. They still need to do the other 3, but they have arguably the hardest part figured out.

You're talking about a team who had a core of two number 1 picks and one 2nd overall pick. And one of those #1's and the 2nd were arguably the best and second best player in the world.

I don't disagree with the building strategy you're talking about, but you're not acknowledging that having Sid and Malkin is what gave them the chance to be good without much surrounding them. As good as Eichel is and what Zegras might be, they're not prime Sid and Malkin. They still need a couple of decent secondary assets.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You're talking about a team who had a core of two number 1 picks and one 2nd overall pick. And one of those #1's and the 2nd were arguably the best and second best player in the world.

I don't disagree with the building strategy you're talking about, but you're not acknowledging that having Sid and Malkin is what gave them the chance to be good without much surrounding them. As good as Eichel is and what Zegras might be, they're not prime Sid and Malkin. They still need a couple of decent secondary assets.

I was talking about what they had outside of the core. If the Ducks get Eichel, they would have a core of a #2 pick, 2 #6 overall picks, a #9 overall pick who has progressed into being a top-5 pick in his redraft and one of the best goalies in hockey. Why is that not on par with any of the recent cup winners cores? How is that not a playoff contender caliber core?

I mean hell, you can easily argue that core is better than any other core that Anaheim ever had after Niedermayer retired.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

I was talking about what they had outside of the core. If the Ducks get Eichel, they would have a core of a #2 pick, 2 #6 overall picks, a #9 overall pick who has progressed into being a top-5 pick in his redraft and one of the best goalies in hockey. Why is that not on par with any of the recent cup winners cores? How is that not a playoff contender caliber core?

I completely agree that it's a great core...and I've acknowledged that I'd make the trade. Without that core meeting expectations, however, it leaves them as a mid playoff team, who can't win it all and won't get any good draft picks. Going with the Pit core that you compared...they were already well established as being the best players in the world. Zegras and Drysdale may get there, but they're not there yet. By getting Eichel, you're talking about trying to contend within a year or two. I'm looking at it from both sides...

 

[BananaSquad]

I was talking about what they had outside of the core. If the Ducks get Eichel, they would have a core of a #2 pick, 2 #6 overall picks, a #9 overall pick who has progressed into being a top-5 pick in his redraft and one of the best goalies in hockey. Why is that not on par with any of the recent cup winners cores? How is that not a playoff contender caliber core?

I mean hell, you can easily argue that core is better than any other core that Anaheim ever had after Niedermayer retired.

I agree. Especially in that division , playoff spots are up for grabs.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Rakell - Eichel - Comtois
Henrique- Zegras - Silfverberg
Terry - Getzlaf - Lunderstom
Volkov - Steel - Jones


Lindholm - Drysdale
Fowler - Manson
Shattenkirk - Fleury

Gibson

Some iteration of that is not a bad lineup on paper, especially if the promising young players continue to develop. Also, you would have the beef of the lineup controlled for years. You add a free agent or two and I don't see why they couldn't compete, especially in a weak Pacific division.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Rakell - Eichel - Comtois
Henrique- Zegras - Silfverberg
Terry - Getzlaf - Lunderstom
Volkov - Steel - Jones


Lindholm - Drysdale
Fowler - Manson
Shattenkirk - Fleury

Gibson

Some iteration of that is not a bad lineup on paper, especially if the promising young players continue to develop. Also, you would have the beef of the lineup controlled for years. You add a free agent or two and I don't see why they couldn't compete, especially in a weak Pacific division.

Who did you trade to get Eichel? I don't think an Eichel deal happens without Comtois being included.

 

[Beerz]

Rakell - Eichel - Comtois
Henrique- Zegras - Silfverberg
Terry - Getzlaf - Lunderstom
Volkov - Steel - Jones


Lindholm - Drysdale
Fowler - Manson
Shattenkirk - Fleury

Gibson

Some iteration of that is not a bad lineup on paper, especially if the promising young players continue to develop. Also, you would have the beef of the lineup controlled for years. You add a free agent or two and I don't see why they couldn't compete, especially in a weak Pacific division.

And apparently only gave up a 3rd round pick for Eichel

 

[Hookslide]

Oh yeah, so much tastier than a proven centre. People forget Eichel is 24. He is a core piece you build around. He's not 31. He's signed for five years. This is not a career-ending injury.

I would like second opinion Doctor Hogstown.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I completely agree that it's a great core...and I've acknowledged that I'd make the trade. Without that core meeting expectations, however, it leaves them as a mid playoff team, who can't win it all and won't get any good draft picks. Going with the Pit core that you compared...they were already well established as being the best players in the world. Zegras and Drysdale may get there, but they're not there yet. By getting Eichel, you're talking about trying to contend within a year or two. I'm looking at it from both sides...

Yeah, that's kinda the point and what Anaheim should be targeting. Get back to being a playoff team and then start picking at the issues on the roster. That's how you build good teams today. The goal should be to get a cup caliber core and then build a cup caliber team around them. That's pretty much exactly what Colorado and Toronto did, although Toronto kinda butchered it by trying to add another core piece to their core that screwed them with the cap.

The focus for any sort of rebuilding team should be "build a cup caliber core" followed by "get back to the playoffs" followed by "build a cup contender". Once you have your cup caliber core locked up, you don't need any more high draft picks.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Who did you trade to get Eichel? I don't think an Eichel deal happens without Comtois being included.

He's free.

Lol good catch. Ok well then I think we would need shift up Terry to first or second line, sign a free agent, or go after a winger via trade for cheap (drouin? )

 

[tomd]

Rakell - Eichel - Comtois
Henrique- Zegras - Silfverberg
Terry - Getzlaf - Lunderstom
Volkov - Steel - Jones


Lindholm - Drysdale
Fowler - Manson
Shattenkirk - Fleury

Gibson

Some iteration of that is not a bad lineup on paper, especially if the promising young players continue to develop. Also, you would have the beef of the lineup controlled for years. You add a free agent or two and I don't see why they couldn't compete, especially in a weak Pacific division.

Remove Comtois as already mentioned. Probably need to remove Henrique as well since it seems that the Ducks won't make a deal without salary going back. Finally, best be prepared to take out another forward that will be taken in the expansion draft. That leaves lots of holes to fill and the lineup wasn't that good to begin with.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

That, to a lot of people over the years, is truly a mystery. I mean, you've got the pieces... or at least you had the primo picks
Every year people say... this is the year for Buffalo... and then its same old same old.

2013 - Ristolainen - 8th pick OAL
2014 - Reinhart - 2nd pick OAL
2015 - Eichel - 2nd pick OAL
2016 - Nylander - 8th pick OAL
2017 - Mittlelstadt - 8th pick OAL
2018 - Dahlin - 1st pick OAL
2019 - Cozens - 7th pick OAL
2020 - Quinn - 8th pick OAL
2021 - Power (I assume) - 1st pick OAL

Frankly, Buffalo is giving Edmonton a real run for its money when it comes to accumulating premier draft pick positions. If I was a Buffalo fan I'd be almost embarrassed.

Note: I realize that Quinn has yet to play for the Sabers and of course neither has Power.

It must suck to be embarrassed about a franchise you have no control over, or generally speaking being embarrassed by something that petty in general. I’d guess you likely use filters on your IG selfies as well.

 

[Rubi]

It must suck to be embarrassed about a franchise you have no control over, or generally speaking being embarrassed by something that petty in general. I’d guess you likely use filters on your IG selfies as well.

I don't post on IG. I also don't post selfies either. I'm one of those photographers who hates taking pics of themselves (I find it somewhat narcissistic) and I much prefer taking photos of sports and wildlife. One of my favorites that I took.... (I think he thought I was an Oiler fan.... LOL)

 

[Not Sure]

I wouldn't call the disc replacement surgery experimental. It is a newer technique and it has never been performed on an NHL player. But, it has been performed on a lot of people at this point.

Given that we are roughly 5 months out from Eichel's last game, I would be surprised if further rest and rehab resolved the issue. Eichel had one doctor say that if by the 6 week mark rest and rehab hadn't resolved the issue, rest and rehab was unlikely to ever resolve the issue.

It seem like we are at the game of chicken point of things where Eichel wants the disc replacement and the Sabres doctors will not approve of that procedure. The Sabres cannot force Eichel to get a spinal fusion surgery, so here we sit...

The dr that said that was the one that wants to operate and get himself published as the "disc doctor for athletes". Everyone has said that the 12 weeks rehab was agreed on, then eichel goes looking for 2nd and 3rd opinions until one says "yep after 6 weeks if its not healed you need this new surgery" and Eichel goes public before the 12 weeks was finished. Anyone who has had disc problems has heard the stories of surgery gone bad.

i had 3 ruptured discs and was told over and over surgery was necessary by drs, but my uncle was one of the horror stories so I stayed away. It took over a year of chiropractor visits but I have full movement and pain is managed by over the counter meds, after a lot of pain killers prescribed way too liberally.

No one knows how long it may take to rehab, but anyone saying 6 weeks is long enough as a catch all for disc problems definitely has ulterior motives at play. That comment alone would make me refuse the surgery if I were the team. Top tier medical staff against the surgery is just icing on the cake.

 

[tomd]

The dr that said that was the one that wants to operate and get himself published as the "disc doctor for athletes". Everyone has said that the 12 weeks rehab was agreed on, then eichel goes looking for 2nd and 3rd opinions until one says "yep after 6 weeks if its not healed you need this new surgery" and Eichel goes public before the 12 weeks was finished. Anyone who has had disc problems has heard the stories of surgery gone bad.

i had 3 ruptured discs and was told over and over surgery was necessary by drs, but my uncle was one of the horror stories so I stayed away. It took over a year of chiropractor visits but I have full movement and pain is managed by over the counter meds, after a lot of pain killers prescribed way too liberally.

No one knows how long it may take to rehab, but anyone saying 6 weeks is long enough as a catch all for disc problems definitely has ulterior motives at play. That comment alone would make me refuse the surgery if I were the team. Top tier medical staff against the surgery is just icing on the cake.

Good post. Surgery is definitely a last resort but it seems like that's where this is heading. I don't think he's tradeable until the surgery issue is 100% off the table.

Serious question - would you be able to play hockey at the highest level in the world with your current condition?

 

[Not Sure]

Good post. Surgery is definitely a last resort but it seems like that's where this is heading. I don't think he's tradeable until the surgery issue is 100% off the table.

Serious question - would you be able to play hockey at the highest level in the world with your current condition?

With proper pain management and exercise i dont think it would be too restricted. I went back to construction and with the exception of some days hurting more than others I wasnt restricted in my job. It was my lower back and the only thing that really changed was that I paid closer attention to how I lifted and carried things, making sure I used my legs and kept my back as stable as possible.

I'm also not an athlete and didn't really do any outside PT other than chiropractic visits as needed. It could be better or worse for athletes or other situations, but 6 weeks isn't enough for a statement such as was made.

 

[Big Muddy]

Rakell - Eichel - Comtois
Henrique- Zegras - Silfverberg
Terry - Getzlaf - Lunderstom
Volkov - Steel - Jones


Lindholm - Drysdale
Fowler - Manson
Shattenkirk - Fleury

Gibson

Some iteration of that is not a bad lineup on paper, especially if the promising young players continue to develop. Also, you would have the beef of the lineup controlled for years. You add a free agent or two and I don't see why they couldn't compete, especially in a weak Pacific division.

What will Getzlaf's next contract look like? Any info floating around on that? Does he want to stay with Anaheim and does Anaheim want to give him another contract?

 

[MayDayMayDay]

I don't post on IG. I also don't post selfies either. I'm one of those photographers who hates taking pics of themselves (I find it somewhat narcissistic) and I much prefer taking photos of sports and wildlife. One of my favorites that I took.... (I think he thought I was an Oiler fan.... LOL)

View attachment 452088

Nature rules.

 

[dracom]

Remove Comtois as already mentioned. Probably need to remove Henrique as well since it seems that the Ducks won't make a deal without salary going back. Finally, best be prepared to take out another forward that will be taken in the expansion draft. That leaves lots of holes to fill and the lineup wasn't that good to begin with.

Move Terry and Getz up to replace Comtois and Henrique. Have Grant and Desl fill in the bottom 6 for whoever gets taken by Seattle. Filling up that roster isnt that hard to accomplish