Friedman: Sabres ask on Eichel is still huge

[Empoleon8771]

Buffalo couldn't win building around Eichel, Dahlin, Reinhart, Hall, and Risto...which is a lot more talent than what you just described for the Ducks.

The facts are that you're hilariously exaggerating what kind of demise Anaheim would have by making that trade.

If you can't build around a core of Eichel, Zegras, Drysdale and Gibson, while having basically no anchors of contracts on your books, you're an absolute dunce and you have no business running a NHL team. You literally have the 4 hardest positions to acquire already figured out with 4 elite (or projected elite) players. If you can't build around that, you have no business being a GM.

You're so close to getting the point.

 

[tomd]

You're so close to getting the point.

A good GM will make the right trade for the right player at the right time. You believe Eichel is the right player for Anaheim right now. I don't. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is this Ducks fans just hilariously exaggerating this or is the Ducks future way more bleak than it seems on paper? I'm looking at their roster and I fundamentally can't understand how someone can argue that the Ducks future would be shot if they traded #3 overall, Comtois, Perreault and Dostal for Eichel.

Even if you take out all of those assets, they still have a pretty solid collection of young NHL talent in Steel, Terry, Larsson, Fleury, Jones, Lundestrom, Guhle and Milano. Sure, maybe all of those guys don't end up hitting their upside, but once you have your elite players figured out, you don't need those guys to hit their upsides. You just need to get solid players out of it. They also have a decent amount of tradable assets in Lindholm, Rakell, Shattenkirk, Silfverberg and Fowler.

Idk, I just really feel like a GM would have to be really bad at their job to not be able to turn Eichel, Zegras, Drysdale and Gibson plus everything else into at least a contender. This is even more true if Anaheim keeps Lindholm, which they should IMO. They have 4 (5 if they keep Lindholm) of their most important positions figured out.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

A good GM will make the right trade for the right player at the right time. You believe Eichel is the right player for Anaheim right now. I don't. Let's agree to disagree.

Cost is most important factor in that….

If your getting a guy like eichel for a reasonable cost and keeping guys like gibson zegras drysdale lindholm…. You def are in a good spot to make a run at a playoffs.


Also making an eichel move means we’re likely going to spend money in free agency… having eichel and zegras down the middle increases our pp and the players around them

 

[bsu]

I'd make any trade instantly as ducks fan for eichel that doesn't include zegras, drysdale, lindholm or gibson. Anyone else can go but obviously depends on how many pieces and what pieces.

3rd overall, comtois or perreault, lundestrom or steel, henrique, dostal plus another prospect (Brayden Tracey?) or pick is an easy yes from me.

 

[tomd]

Is this Ducks fans just hilariously exaggerating this or is the Ducks future way more bleak than it seems on paper? I'm looking at their roster and I fundamentally can't understand how someone can argue that the Ducks future would be shot if they traded #3 overall, Comtois, Perreault and Dostal for Eichel.

Even if you take out all of those assets, they still have a pretty solid collection of young NHL talent in Steel, Terry, Larsson, Fleury, Jones, Lundestrom and Milano. Sure, maybe all of those guys don't end up hitting their upside, but once you have your elite players figured out, you don't need those guys to hit their upsides. You just need to get solid players out of it. They also have a decent amount of tradable assets in Lindholm, Rakell, Shattenkirk, Silfverberg and Fowler.

Most Ducks fans would agree that other than Terry (who still might have some upside) all of the forwards you mentioned are bottom six players. That's their ceiling. Fleury is a bottom pairing defenseman...maybe a #4 on a bad team. Lindholm, Rakell, and Manson are all UFA's in one year. If they are traded it will be for futures which puts the team FURTHER away from competing in the next 3-5 years. Shattenkirk is terrible and untradeable. Silfverberg and Henrique are on the wrong side of 30 and on inflated contracts. Fowler is still a top 4D but has a very restrictive NTC. That's what you have to work with.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Is this Ducks fans just hilariously exaggerating this or is the Ducks future way more bleak than it seems on paper? I'm looking at their roster and I fundamentally can't understand how someone can argue that the Ducks future would be shot if they traded #3 overall, Comtois, Perreault and Dostal for Eichel.

Even if you take out all of those assets, they still have a pretty solid collection of young NHL talent in Steel, Terry, Larsson, Fleury, Jones, Lundestrom, Guhle and Milano. Sure, maybe all of those guys don't end up hitting their upside, but once you have your elite players figured out, you don't need those guys to hit their upsides. You just need to get solid players out of it. They also have a decent amount of tradable assets in Lindholm, Rakell, Shattenkirk, Silfverberg and Fowler.

Idk, I just really feel like a GM would have to be really bad at their job to not be able to turn Eichel, Zegras, Drysdale and Gibson plus everything else into at least a contender.

Idk to me you get eichel(let’s say comtois + 3rd + doslal + steel) .
Sign 1 of palmeiri/Hoffman

Rakell eichel palmeiri
Henrique zegras terry
Jones Lundy silfverberg
Rowney getzlaf des

lindholm drysdale
Fowler Manson
Fluery shatt

Gibson

looks fairly solid to me, maybe find a trade for Henrique for a physical left winger that can play on that line( like a josh Anderson or even foligno )

 

[bsu]

Getzlaf will not be the 4th line center lol He will probably play wing

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Most Ducks fans would agree that other than Terry (who still might have some upside) all of the forwards you mentioned are bottom six players. That's their ceiling. Fleury is a bottom pairing defenseman...maybe a #4 on a bad team. Lindholm, Rakell, and Manson are all UFA's in one year. If they are traded it will be for futures which puts the team FURTHER away from competing in the next 3-5 years. Shattenkirk is terrible and untradeable. Silfverberg and Henrique are on the wrong side of 30 and on inflated contracts. Fowler is still a top 4D but has a very restrictive NTC. That's what you have to work with.

I feel like you just type out the worst possible out comes in every post you make, kinda obnoxious

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Getzlaf will not be the 4th line center lol He will probably play wing

Idk lol I just threw him in there at the end cause I kinda forgot bout him

 

[Empoleon8771]

Most Ducks fans would agree that other than Terry (who still might have some upside) all of the forwards you mentioned are bottom six players. That's their ceiling. Fleury is a bottom pairing defenseman...maybe a #4 on a bad team. Lindholm, Rakell, and Manson are all UFA's in one year. If they are traded it will be for futures which puts the team FURTHER away from competing in the next 3-5 years. Shattenkirk is terrible and untradeable. Silfverberg and Henrique are on the wrong side of 30 and on inflated contracts. Fowler is still a top 4D but has a very restrictive NTC. That's what you have to work with.

You don't need them to be any more than that.

This is the same exact thing that I argued with fans years ago who said the Penguins future was in disarray because they had no top prospects coming in the system. They literally had their most important positions filled with Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Fleury (at the time). Who cares if they didn't have anyone who projected to be a 1C? They wouldn't need another 1C for literally another decade.

When you have an elite core, you don't need to be churning out top of the line prospects in addition to that core. You just need to be churning out cost effective talent with it. With Eichel, Zegras, Lindholm, Drysdale and Gibson, they have their big guns figured out. They just need to surround that core with cost effective talent. If you can fill your bottom-6 and bottom pair with decent young talent with an elite core of the most important positions, you're in a terrific spot to contend.

 

[tomd]

I feel like you just seem the worst possible out comes in every post you make, kinda obnoxious

What do you disagree with? Because most of what I've written can be found on the Ducks board every day.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

You don't need them to be any more than that.

This is the same exact thing that I argued with fans years ago who said the Penguins future was in disarray because they had no top prospects coming in the system. They literally had their most important positions filled with Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Fleury (at the time). Who cares if they didn't have anyone who projected to be a 1C? They wouldn't need another 1C for literally another decade.

When you have an elite core, you don't need to be churning out top of the line prospects in addition to that core. You just need to be churning out cost effective talent with it. With Eichel, Zegras, Lindholm, Drysdale and Gibson, they have their big guns figured out. They just need to surround that core with cost effective talent.

Also I’d argue eichel and zegras have the ability to turn bottom 6 wingers into middle 6 wingers

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

What do you disagree with? Because most of what I've written can be found on the Ducks board every day.

I disagree with the whole idea that you can’t make a contender with eichel lindholm gibson zegras drysdale, I think you very easily can.

just fix the power play, and that alone prob puts us as competitor(which zegras/eichel will help)

 

[tomd]

You don't need them to be any more than that.

This is the same exact thing that I argued with fans years ago who said the Penguins future was in disarray because they had no top prospects coming in the system. They literally had their most important positions filled with Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Fleury (at the time). Who cares if they didn't have anyone who projected to be a 1C? They wouldn't need another 1C for literally another decade.

When you have an elite core, you don't need to be churning out top of the line prospects in addition to that core. You just need to be churning out cost effective talent with it. With Eichel, Zegras, Lindholm, Drysdale and Gibson, they have their big guns figured out. They just need to surround that core with cost effective talent.

Convenient that you didn't mention Rust, Guentzel, Kapanen, McCann, and Zucker who are all better than anyone on the Ducks forward lines except for maybe Rakell. Adding 5 talented players to Crosby and Malkin makes a HUGE difference. There is no such talent on the Ducks.

 

[tomd]

I disagree with the whole idea that you can’t make a contender with eichel lindholm gibson zegras drysdale, I think you very easily can.

just fix the power play, and that alone prob puts us as competitor(which zegras/eichel will help)

Well if the Ducks acquire Eichel and he isn't hurt then I guess we'll get to see how accurate your assessment is. Going to be fun to watch.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Convenient that you didn't mention Rust, Guentzel, Kapanen, McCann, and Zucker who are all better than anyone on the Ducks forward lines except for maybe Rakell. Adding 5 talented players to Crosby and Malkin makes a HUGE difference. There is no such talent on the Ducks.

Rust was an internally developed forward that would have fallen in that same "he's a bottom-6er at best" category that you threw guys like Jones, Steel and Lundestrom in. He is a perfect example of how you don't need to be outputting elite talent from your prospect pool to win a cup if you have an elite core. Connor Sheary is another great example of that, both of those guys were top-6 forwards on both of those cup teams.

McCann, Kapanen and Zucker were not on either of the Penguins teams that won cups. There's also no one saying "the Ducks are going to be a contender tomorrow if they trade for Eichel today", the Ducks still need to have work done on them to become a contender again. But they have the framework they need plus a lot of lottery tickets (from tradeable assets, young players on their roster and their prospect pool) who can fill the other needed positions on the roster.

 

[tomd]

Rust was an internally developed forward that would have fallen in that same "he's a bottom-6er at best" category that you threw guys like Jones, Steel and Lundestrom in. He is a perfect example of how you don't need to be outputting elite talent from your prospect pool to win a cup if you have an elite core. Connor Sheary is another great example of that, both of those guys were top-6 forwards on both of those cup teams.

McCann, Kapanen and Zucker were not on either of the Penguins teams that won cups. There's also no one saying "the Ducks are going to be a contender tomorrow if they trade for Eichel today", the Ducks still need to have work done on them to become a contender again.

Yes, I agree. And what I'm saying is that unless the Ducks are willing to mortgage more of their future they can't improve quickly. Big name free agents don't come here. Trades would be tough because - despite what you say - there just isn't that much that is valuable other than Zegras, Drysdale, and future #1 picks. Manson, Rakell, and Lindholm would all need to resign with significant raises. This is not being negative...it's being realistic. It's like needing to fill an inside straight to win a poker hand. Doable? yes. Likely? no.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

I'd make any trade instantly as ducks fan for eichel that doesn't include zegras, drysdale, lindholm or gibson. Anyone else can go but obviously depends on how many pieces and what pieces.

3rd overall, comtois or perreault, lundestrom or steel, henrique, dostal plus another prospect (Brayden Tracey?) or pick is an easy yes from me.

What about 3 OVA, Comtois, Groulx, Thrun, and Henrique?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yes, I agree. And what I'm saying is that unless the Ducks are willing to mortgage more of their future they can't improve quickly. Big name free agents don't come here. Trades would be tough because - despite what you say - there just isn't that much that is valuable other than Zegras, Drysdale, and future #1 picks. Manson, Rakell, and Lindholm would all need to resign with significant raises. This is not being negative...it's being realistic. It's like needing to fill an inside straight to win a poker hand. Doable? yes. Likely? no.

Again, the Ducks won't need to acquire anything that valuable.

I'm going to lump Lindholm in here too because the Ducks should keep him. They would have their 5 most important positions figured out. What do you need a lot of "value" there to add? They have a ton of young players who can fill depth roles, and it's not farfetched to say that a couple of those young guys can surprise and end up more than depth players. What significantly valuable players would need to be acquired by Anaheim? Why can't Anaheim take one of those younger bottom-6 players and attach a #1 pick and a prospect to get a top-6 upgrade when they're ready to contend?

Your opinion isn't "negative", it's completely unrealistic and unreasonable for how teams build cup contenders. I'm using the Penguins because I'm the most familiar with them. The Penguins didn't win back to back cups in 2016 and 2017 because they hoarded high value assets. They won because:

1. They had an elite core
2. Ray Shero made a lot of really good draft picks from 2010-2013 that started yielding benefits in 2015.
3. Jim Rutherford made a lot of really good and really bold trades
4. They hired an elite coach in Mike Sullivan

They did this while having 1 top-10 pick (that ended up a bust) and generally not having any sort of elite prospects (outside of Sprong for a hot second). Adding Eichel would lock the Ducks into having #1. They still need to do the other 3, but they have arguably the hardest part figured out.

 

[bsu]

What about 3 OVA, Comtois, Groulx, Thrun, and Henrique?

I'd do that but I think Buffalo would want Dostal, he's a hell of a goaltender.

 

[LongWayDown37]

I disagree with the whole idea that you can’t make a contender with eichel lindholm gibson zegras drysdale, I think you very easily can.

just fix the power play, and that alone prob puts us as competitor(which zegras/eichel will help)

Get Eichel and your powerplay is fixed. He will make everyone else successful on it.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I'd do that but I think Buffalo would want Dostal, he's a hell of a goaltender.

Tend to agree … I think dostal is a big piece of a potential trade that Buffalo will want

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Get Eichel and your powerplay is fixed. He will make everyone else successful on it.

Well ya that’s my point … eichel and zegras alone make that power play deadly

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

If Buffalo's trading Eichel, Olafsson should also be available to any team looking for a PP weapon. I suspect they'd have some chemistry together.