Prospect Info: Ryan Poehling - Part 7

[1909]

Does anyone remember what the trade was a couple years ago that Bergevin let it pass because the team was insisting on Poehling?

O'Reilly....

 

[SpezNc2]

O'Reilly....

As per Matthias Brunet, Jason Botterill wanted 3rd Overall, Danault and Poehling in exchange of O’Reilly.

I think we can understand why MB said no.

 

[DAChampion]

As per Matthias Brunet, Jason Botterill wanted 3rd Overall, Danault and Poehling in exchange of O’Reilly.

I think we can understand why MB said no.

In the real world, ROR was traded for a late 1st, a late 2nd, some cap dumps, and Tage Thompson.

 

[SpezNc2]

In the real world, ROR was traded for a late 1st, a late 2nd, some cap dumps, and Tage Thompson.

Botterill did not wanted to trade ROR to MTL probably because both are in the same division. He added a surprime. Would not be surprised if MTL’s offers was better than STL’s in the end. Botterill has only himself to blame. He knew MB was in a tough spot looking out for a C so badly and ask for the moon. MB did not budge. Good for MB. And yeah, Botterill completely blew out the deal.

 

[jaffy27]

O'Reilly....

Wrong!!!!!.....O’Reilley + 3rd overall pick +

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I hope RP takes inspiration from Kotka's revival.

From what I've heard/read, both had troubles maintaining discipline for physical training. KK went over the hump and RP can see the results.

Unless he suffers a slight PTSD from his concussion. Trauma can take some time to overcome.

 

[DAChampion]

Botterill did not wanted to trade ROR to MTL probably because both are in the same division. He added a surprime. Would not be surprised if MTL’s offers was better than STL’s in the end. Botterill has only himself to blame. He knew MB was in a tough spot looking out for a C so badly and ask for the moon. MB did not budge. Good for MB. And yeah, Botterill completely blew out the deal.

A major assumption of your analysis is that Botterill is a complete imbecile. That might actually be true, I don't know, but I think it's worth stating that this is an assumption.

 

[SpezNc2]

A major assumption of your analysis is that Botterill is a complete imbecile. That might actually be true, I don't know, but I think it's worth stating that this is an assumption.

I don’t think he is a moron. Being a GM is not easy and pretty sure he is very smart.

it’s very common a GM ask more when it’s within the same division. I don’t get it but it’s common.

Tage Thomson was also highly valued at that time. That is said, no GM wanted more a center than Bergevin. Botterill knew it and probably tried to exploit it. Nothing wrong there.

but when Brunet report the ask was 3rd, Danault and Poehling and then he accept STL’s offer, you understands he was not trading the player to MTL unless the offer was massive. MB probably knew that and probably back down.

of course it’s speculation. But we the puzzle get clearer.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Wrong!!!!!.....O’Reilley + 3rd overall pick +

Would have been Poehling and Caufield cause the 3rd OA would have been top 10 or lottery protected. If we had ROR, probably not the 15th pick either cause we would have been a better team? Lets say we had Danault and ROR. We probably don't trade Patch and draft KK right? Things would be different. Would be ROR and Tkachuk or Hughes?

What do you like more?

Poehling, Caufield, Suzuki, Norlinder, Tatar, Kotkaniemi
vs
ROR, Patch, Tkachuk or Hughes

 

[malcb33]

It’s the butterfly effect! There’s no why to tell how things would have ended up if the trade was made.

 

[salbutera]

Rarely do GMs want to trade established higher caliber players within their conference - like Pacioretty, Mark Stone etc those players are moved to the “other” conference unless someone within the same conference is willing to significantly overpay...see Gomez deal

 

[DAChampion]

Rarely do GMs want to trade established higher caliber players within their conference - like Pacioretty, Mark Stone etc those players are moved to the “other” conference unless someone within the same conference is willing to significantly overpay...see Gomez deal

That is something that fans like to talk about, but in practice it doesn't actually make any sense and many great players are trading within the conference. The most significant recent trade is between Toronto and Pittsburgh. Here the 2020 trade deadlines, there were tons on intra conference trades:
NHL trade tracker 2020: List of deals completed before the deadline

Look at this alleged Botterill example. The idea is that he willingly made the Sabres a weaker team so as not to trade with the Habs. Are you sure that's rational?

 

[Adam Michaels]

Would have been Poehling and Caufield cause the 3rd OA would have been top 10 or lottery protected. If we had ROR, probably not the 15th pick either cause we would have been a better team? Lets say we had Danault and ROR. We probably don't trade Patch and draft KK right? Things would be different. Would be ROR and Tkachuk or Hughes?

What do you like more?

Poehling, Caufield, Suzuki, Norlinder, Tatar, Kotkaniemi
vs
ROR, Patch, Tkachuk or Hughes

Technically, the ROR trade wouldn't necessarily mean that Pacioretty stays. The plan to trade Pacioretty was already made by the draft (which is where the potential ROR trade to Montreal was being worked on). That same weekend, Habs had a deal in place with LA that fell through.

So Habs were looking to acquire ROR while also looking to move Max.

Also, there would be no Tkachuk or Hughes because the 3rd overall was in play for that trade. It was not Top-10 protected. That trade was being worked on leading into the draft. So the pick was going to be part of the trade. In other words, there would be no Kotkaniemi, Tkachuk or Hughes.

And let's say for the sake of the scenario, Habs didn't miss the playoffs and would not get to pick Caufield at 15. But looking at the 2019 players taken after Caufield from the playoff teams, there were some good prospects available. And we know the 3rd Overall was in play for that trade so there would be no Kotkaniemi.

The scenarios would be more like:

Poehling + Caufield + Kotkaniemi
vs.
ROR + Tatar + Suzuki + Norlinder

 

[Kriss E]

I don’t think he is a moron. Being a GM is not easy and pretty sure he is very smart.

it’s very common a GM ask more when it’s within the same division. I don’t get it but it’s common.

That's BS.
Just think about it for a second would ya? If you're the Sabres GM, what do you actually care about? Improving your team. Now you're trading ROR away so you want some picks and good prospects in return.
If Mtl gives you the best deal, why in the hell would you not move him there? Because he is oh-so-good that you absolutely do not want to face him? So your solution to that is take a lesser offer and be weaker?
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Tage Thomson was also highly valued at that time. That is said, no GM wanted more a center than Bergevin. Botterill knew it and probably tried to exploit it. Nothing wrong there.

but when Brunet report the ask was 3rd, Danault and Poehling and then he accept STL’s offer, you understands he was not trading the player to MTL unless the offer was massive. MB probably knew that and probably back down.

of course it’s speculation. But we the puzzle get clearer.

Brunet's alleged demand is silliness. I'm not saying he made it up, he still has some journalistic integrity but there's no way the Sabres had a hardline on this offer. Maybe they opened the bidding with that offer, like any negotiation you start high, the counter was probably low, then you meet somewhere in the middle or close to it.

It makes no sense to go from 3OV-Danault-Poehling to the crap they got from Stl.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

As per Matthias Brunet, Jason Botterill wanted 3rd Overall, Danault and Poehling in exchange of O’Reilly.

I think we can understand why MB said no.

Well that's what he wanted, he didn't come close to that with Berglund leaving for Sweden after last season, Sobotka and a 1st round pick from St-Louis # 31 overall.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I can buy we might have paid a bit more but I don't think it makes sense that Buffalo would hang up on anything less than 1st Poehling Danault and then accept a late first, 2 cap dumps, and a B prospect.

 

[Istvan]

I sincerely hope Poehling is traded!

 

[Adam Michaels]

I sincerely hope Poehling is traded!

Why hope he gets traded?

 

[Istvan]

Why hope he gets traded?

I'm underwhelmed by his attitude and other items not for this board.

 

[Habricot]

I'm underwhelmed by his attitude and other items not for this board.

I really hope that we give him time to develop in the AHL this year (No call ups at least for a good chunk of the season). I also hope they develop him as a LW. He is IMO exactly what we need in our roster today.... if he starts putting everything together.

 

[The Great Weal]

If this kid comes to camp looking like ass, I'd send him packing. I really hope he has matured over since the playins because I truly want him to do well here.

 

[montreal]

I assume the time to trade him was last year but after such a poor year now it's likely better to just stick him in Laval all year and have Bouchard work with him. If Bouchard thinks it's hopeless then trade him for whatever you can get. I really don't know what went wrong with him but he did show flashes but after he started heating up he got the MB special that i've seen too many times now, prospect starts putting up points, gets called up to the 4th line, ends up in the press box, gets sent down and struggles. rinse repeat.

That said hopefully it was a wake up call, he works hard and someone talks to him about keeping his damn head up more before he gets seriously hurt.

 

[The Great Weal]

I assume the time to trade him was last year but after such a poor year now it's likely better to just stick him in Laval all year and have Bouchard work with him. If Bouchard thinks it's hopeless then trade him for whatever you can get. I really don't know what went wrong with him but he did show flashes but after he started heating up he got the MB special that i've seen too many times now, prospect starts putting up points, gets called up to the 4th line, ends up in the press box, gets sent down and struggles. rinse repeat.

That said hopefully it was a wake up call, he works hard and someone talks to him about keeping his damn head up more before he gets seriously hurt.

The time to trade him was when Buffalo asked for him and a 2nd and another piece for ROR. People here were dreaming when they thought he could be a ROR type player.

As stupid as it was to call him up, I seriously doubt that Bergevin asked him not to give any second effort when playing and to make sure he didn't train accordingly when he could have very well played in the playoffs.

If he still has attitude problems at camp then you trade him because it likely won't get any better. You can also chalk it up to another bad 1st rounder. That would be 8 of the last 9 1st round picks being busts/serious disappointments lol. That's embarrassingly bad.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

I get that his NHL debut might have gotten to his head but it's surprising how a kid who worked so hard academically to play with his brother is doing the dumb shit that is being reported.

 

[montreal]

The time to trade him was when Buffalo asked for him and a 2nd and another piece for ROR. People here were dreaming when they thought he could be a ROR type player.

As stupid as it was to call him up, I seriously doubt that Bergevin asked him not to give any second effort when playing and to make sure he didn't train accordingly when he could have very well played in the playoffs.

If he still has attitude problems at camp then you trade him because it likely won't get any better. You can also chalk it up to another bad 1st rounder. That would be 8 of the last 9 1st round picks being busts/serious disappointments lol. That's embarrassingly bad.

I can't speak to any attitude issues just as i can't explain why like Brook he so badly failed to play his game in Laval.

I get that his NHL debut might have gotten to his head but it's surprising how a kid who worked so hard academically to play with his brother is doing the dumb shit that is being reported.

We'll see how he looks at camp, Bouchard was sticking up for him so that tells me something, I really have no ideal if there was any issues with him outside that he just did not look good, was not playing his game much at all and was handled like shit.