Ryan Nugent-Hopkins

[Beerfish]

The media still has the hate of for Yakupov and the free passes for guys like RNH other than the old 'he needs to play better'. Dave Jamesion was all over Yakupov the other day essentially saying to just get rid of him.

Last 12 games:

Yakupov 1-3 4 points -4
RNH 0-2 2 points -6

 

[gofafeads]

Obviously the team cares. If one needs to put all the eggs in one basket to get Nuge going where does that leave the other lines. For too long we've been putting redundant talents on one line and then wondering why we don't have scoring depth.

Most successful clubs will put a couple offensive players together with a guy that's not a premium talent but is there to support, forecheck, play a role. Putting Nuge, Hall, Eberle out there always on the same line is fine maybe for that line, but not the club. Its a one basket approach instead of spreading the resources.

Finally, you don't draft a #1 pick center to be heavily reliant on other #1 picks. On most clubs these guys would be expected to be able to carry some of their own weight.

I don't buy it. Perry-getzlaf, kessel-jvr, seguin-benn, toews-kane, ovechkin-backstrom, sedins... A competent coach puts players in a position to succeed. Anybody who watches hockey can surely see that rnh and yakupov have no chemistry and should not be on the sane line.

 

[SchultzSquared*]

I don't buy it. Perry-getzlaf, kessel-jvr, seguin-benn, toews-kane, ovechkin-backstrom, sedins... A competent coach puts players in a position to succeed. Anybody who watches hockey can surely see that rnh and yakupov have no chemistry and should not be on the sane line.

Uh you just echoed his point... Replacement is saying you do not put all THREE of your best players on a line together... RNH-Eberle being one dynamic duo and Hall-Perron the other for example (not saying that is optimal)... basic sports strategy really... not sure how it fails to be embraced either on here or the big club...

Hall-?-Perron
?-RNH-Eberle

Fill in the question marks...

This is where a big strong two way center like Koivu and an abrasive winger like Bickell would round out our top six... neither on their own is a game breaker but they provide the things lacking on their respective unit overall

 

[gofafeads]

Uh you just echoed his point... Replacement is saying you do not put all THREE of your best players on a line together... RNH-Eberle being one dynamic duo and Hall-Perron the other for example (not saying that is optimal)... basic sports strategy really... not sure how it fails to be embraced either on here or the big club...

Hall-?-Perron
?-RNH-Eberle

Fill in the question marks...

This is where a big strong two way center like Koivu and an abrasive winger like Bickell would round out our top six... neither on their own is a game breaker but they provide the things lacking on their respective unit overall

Please read my posts. Never did I say put all THREE of your best players. My response was to replacement saying rnh wasn't producing without hall and he was hinting at some people saying that hall was better with rnh. I was saying that who cares who rides who's coatails, as long as they are producing at their max rate.

 

[Replacement*]

Uh you just echoed his point... Replacement is saying you do not put all THREE of your best players on a line together... RNH-Eberle being one dynamic duo and Hall-Perron the other for example (not saying that is optimal)... basic sports strategy really... not sure how it fails to be embraced either on here or the big club...

Hall-?-Perron
?-RNH-Eberle

Fill in the question marks...

This is where a big strong two way center like Koivu and an abrasive winger like Bickell would round out our top six... neither on their own is a game breaker but they provide the things lacking on their respective unit overall

Exactly, thanks.

 

[Raab]

Please read my posts. Never did I say put all THREE of your best players. My response was to replacement saying rnh wasn't producing without hall and he was hinting at some people saying that hall was better with rnh. I was saying that who cares who rides who's coatails, as long as they are producing at their max rate.

The problem is you can put almost anyone with Hall and they'll produce at there max rate, the same cant be said about RNH. I think RNH has actually been making lines worse as of late... I'd be curious as to what Gagner could do between Yakupov and Eberle as Gagner seems to have chemistry with Yak for some unknown reason.

 

[rboomercat90]

Nuge said before the season he was coming into camp in the low buck eighties. There is absolute zero chance he is playing in the 190's right now. I listened to the piece on Oilers now too. Stauffer seemed like he was grasping at straws more then anything with this theory. If anything Nuge is undersized and eating a lot of minutes with a couple hobbits on his wings. Get this guy some real hockey players on his flanks and we'll see what he can do.

Ha ha. I heard it too and wondered the same thing. Stauffer was scrambling to try and change the subject on Button who was doing his weekly bit on how terrible Eakins is at coaching hockey.

 

[missinthejets]

I'd be curious as to what Gagner could do between Yakupov and Eberle as Gagner seems to have chemistry with Yak for some unknown reason.

It's not really an unknown reason, Gagner is a very adaptable player, he seems to be able to adjust to play with anyone. He may not be the guy to carry a line but he has shown that he can play well offensively with anyone.

 

[Panda Bear]

If you contrast Ryan's rookie season with his current season, the main difference you see is his confidence.

He's playing without any confidence in his own game, and he has the privilege to be on a line with another player, Yakupov, who also has no confidence in his game.

 

[Still DRAI]

The problem is you can put almost anyone with Hall and they'll produce at there max rate, the same cant be said about RNH. I think RNH has actually been making lines worse as of late... I'd be curious as to what Gagner could do between Yakupov and Eberle as Gagner seems to have chemistry with Yak for some unknown reason.

Gagner likes to pass. Yakupov likes the puck on his stick. It's the reason that Gagner always looks best between Hall and Yak (both rushing players who like having the puck) and worst when he's with players who don't want to carry the puck.

I've said this before, but if I were coaching the Oilers (which would be a catastrophe of proportions previously unknown ), I'd have Hall - ? - Yakupov and ? - RNH - Eberle as lines. Gagner and Perron seem to be our respective best options for the ?'s right now.

 

[Soundwave]

I really wonder if he jarred his shoulder or got hit there again and it's leading him to play more conservatively. That would explain a lot.

 

[Jtown]

It's not really an unknown reason, Gagner is a very adaptable player, he seems to be able to adjust to play with anyone. He may not be the guy to carry a line but he has shown that he can play well offensively with anyone.

This is true. Gagner got off to about the worst start this season and I was all over him. I wanted him gone for nothing, but now after seeing him play with hall its undeniable that those two play better together than rnh does with hall.

Usually that would be a great scenario , you have your number 2 center working well with first line wingers, and your number 1 center carrying a line by himself with 2nd line wingers in support, but the truth is RNH is not the type of center who can carry a line by himself yet.

yet being the key word

 

[Beatle17]

I think those things will come.

Anyone remember what Datsyuk looked like his first few years in the league?

Datsyuk played behind Yzerman, Federov, Larionov, Draper etc., when he first came into the league yet still succeeded in what he was asked to do. Nuge is handed first line minutes and powerplay time so he should produce at a higher level.

If you are hoping he turns into Datsyuk then he has a looooong way to go.

 

[Replacement*]

This is true. Gagner got off to about the worst start this season and I was all over him. I wanted him gone for nothing, but now after seeing him play with hall its undeniable that those two play better together than rnh does with hall.

Usually that would be a great scenario , you have your number 2 center working well with first line wingers, and your number 1 center carrying a line by himself with 2nd line wingers in support, but the truth is RNH is not the type of center who can carry a line by himself yet.

yet being the key word

Nice to see people come around on this. You'll remember as well that Gagner came back from injury two weeks early this year. Those were the most miserable two weeks of his career. Guy probably should've been resting and gaining strength. People don't think about it a lot but the main way a jaw injury screws with you is through eating through a straw for a lone while. That really impacts more than people think. Gagner for 2mths this season didn't have energy and jump out there.

Now again he does.

 

[MessierII]

He's been absolutely terrible lately no two ways about it.

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

Datsyuk played behind Yzerman, Federov, Larionov, Draper etc., when he first came into the league yet still succeeded in what he was asked to do. Nuge is handed first line minutes and powerplay time so he should produce at a higher level.

If you are hoping he turns into Datsyuk then he has a looooong way to go.

First off, Datsyuk did not succeed in everything he was asked to do. He was small and weak and disappeared in physical games. And his playoff record was atrocious for his first few years.

Secondly, 'hand teenager tons of ice-time + PP time = great production' just .... Doesnt work. Thats the Kevin Lowe method of player development.

Datsyuk was in a FAR better situation developmentally and he still took some time to grow as a player.

 

[Up the Irons]

Uh you just echoed his point... Replacement is saying you do not put all THREE of your best players on a line together... RNH-Eberle being one dynamic duo and Hall-Perron the other for example (not saying that is optimal)... basic sports strategy really... not sure how it fails to be embraced either on here or the big club...

Hall-?-Perron
?-RNH-Eberle

Fill in the question marks...


This is where a big strong two way center like Koivu and an abrasive winger like Bickell would round out our top six... neither on their own is a game breaker but they provide the things lacking on their respective unit overall

That's easy. Gagner and Yak of course. The perfect core to mirror what we did back in the day.

 

[Staghorn]

He's been absolutely terrible lately no two ways about it.

He is a soft and light player who is buoyed with a big fat contract... That is the difference from this to his rookie year, in case people are struggling to find the "difference". It's called complacency. Hard to motivate yourself when you're set for life. Why battle against REAL #1 centers when your contract is a done deal? He isn't competing at all anymore. The book on him is well known, it isn't going to get any better either.

 

[Jamin]

Datsyuk played behind Yzerman, Federov, Larionov, Draper etc., when he first came into the league yet still succeeded in what he was asked to do. Nuge is handed first line minutes and powerplay time so he should produce at a higher level.

If you are hoping he turns into Datsyuk then he has a looooong way to go.

So he was sheltered, got to play easy opp. and gain confidence...the way you should do it. You seriously think a 175 pound 20 year old just because he is getting minutes is going to put up mad points against Thornton, Getzlaf, Kopitar etc.

 

[gofafeads]

Who cares if hall makes rnh better or if rnh makes hall better. There are 3 players on each forward line for a reason. The coach should be putting these players in a position to succeed even if rnh rides off of hall. We have both players on this team, might as well use them where they are producing at the highest rate.

I don't buy it. Perry-getzlaf, kessel-jvr, seguin-benn, toews-kane, ovechkin-backstrom, sedins... A competent coach puts players in a position to succeed. Anybody who watches hockey can surely see that rnh and yakupov have no chemistry and should not be on the sane line.

Uh you just echoed his point... Replacement is saying you do not put all THREE of your best players on a line together... RNH-Eberle being one dynamic duo and Hall-Perron the other for example (not saying that is optimal)... basic sports strategy really... not sure how it fails to be embraced either on here or the big club...

Exactly, thanks.

I'm so confused as to what you guys are trying to point out here. In my post when did I ever say put THREE of the best players together. How did I 'echo his point' of putting 3 of our top players together when I list off dynamic duos such as Perry-getzlaf, kessel-jvr.... In fact you 'echoed my point' which is to pair players which I understand coaches do and the strategy behind it, which is why I listed dynamic duos.

Maybe the confusion stems from me stating 'there are 3 players on each forward line for a reason'?? What I was trying to say in that is there are 3 players on a line and as expected there will be guys who drive and guys who will ride, it's just the nature of being on a line and a team for that matter. That is why dynamic duos work because they play off of each other. If guys have chemistry, then why should it matter who rides and who drives as long as they are producing. Why does it matter that rnh rides hall or vice versa. We have both players after all.

I know some will say rnh was drafted 1st overall and should drive the line but he is 20 years old. Not only do most forwards have more size than him but they also have more experience. I also think people underestimate the negative effects of the oilers being so terrible in their own zone on offensive production. Rnh and the other skill players are hemmed in their own zone sometimes for whole shifts being manhandled because they can't make breakouts and play d. The amount of times I have seen them gasp and barely make it to the bench is laughable. Rnh, being the center, is probably the most tired because he has to chase down low and try to be physical. How can they produce offense when they have nothing left in the tank.

 

[Replacement*]

I'm so confused as to what you guys are trying to point out here. In my post when did I ever say put THREE of the best players together. How did I 'echo his point' of putting 3 of our top players together when I list off dynamic duos such as Perry-getzlaf, kessel-jvr.... In fact you 'echoed my point' which is to pair players which I understand coaches do and the strategy behind it, which is why I listed dynamic duos.

Maybe the confusion stems from me stating 'there are 3 players on each forward line for a reason'?? What I was trying to say in that is there are 3 players on a line and as expected there will be guys who drive and guys who will ride, it's just the nature of being on a line and a team for that matter. That is why dynamic duos work because they play off of each other. If guys have chemistry, then why should it matter who rides and who drives as long as they are producing. Why does it matter that rnh rides hall or vice versa. We have both players after all.

I know some will say rnh was drafted 1st overall and should drive the line but he is 20 years old. Not only do most forwards have more size than him but they also have more experience. I also think people underestimate the negative effects of the oilers being so terrible in their own zone on offensive production. Rnh and the other skill players are hemmed in their own zone sometimes for whole shifts being manhandled because they can't make breakouts and play d. The amount of times I have seen them gasp and barely make it to the bench is laughable. Rnh, being the center, is probably the most tired because he has to chase down low and try to be physical. How can they produce offense when they have nothing left in the tank.

Your comment was interpreted to mean supporting the Hall, RNH, Eberle line. Possibly because when Hall and RNH are together its usually meant as a unit with Eberle. Also that we get used to so many people here ardently arguing for this line to be chiseled in stone good or bad. So that was how I took your post and others too and perhaps due to what the typical statement on that is here.

But that aside I'm not convinced Hall and RNH are really the ones that have that chemisty. An argument can be made its Hall and Eberle and whoever is along for the ride. Right now Nuge is driving nothing and at some point that's a problem that falls squarely on his shoulders.

Finally, and this has nothing specific to do with your posts but for years I've been hearing stuff here like Gagner isn't good enough because we need to Taylor(excuse pun) a team around him and put him with selective linemates. Gagner, the argument being needed to be more than complimentary. He should be driving a line. Understand as well that these comments in respect of Gagner have been going on for years here.

So it is a little juicy when I see such claims being made in defence of RNH, who should be better imo, and more capable than Gagner. If you're a number 1 pick it comes with the territory. So why the double standard?

As far as your point on getting hemmed in ownzone theres a problem there as well. The Oilers org imo made a mistake originally going so much with the kidstars line and giving them as much as 60% offensive zone starts and weak opposition lines. They got them used to a status quo that just isn't going to be the case in the NHL. The lockout didn't help either as the line again got used to weaker opposition. Now they're playing tough opposition and seeing some results of that.
But one of the things I sense is that players like Hall, Nuge, Eberle had an exaggerated sense of how good they were based on seeing easier minutes and as much offensive zone starts and PP as the team could throw at them.

All the Oilers really succeeded in doing is distorting the apparent worth of these players by affording them easy pts. They didn't have to work too hard in their first year together, and now they are fairly shocked with how hard it is in the NHL (Nuge specifically feeling this).

 

[gofafeads]

As far as your point on getting hemmed in ownzone theres a problem there as well. The Oilers org imo made a mistake originally going so much with the kidstars line and giving them as much as 60% offensive zone starts and weak opposition lines. They got them used to a status quo that just isn't going to be the case in the NHL. The lockout didn't help either as the line again got used to weaker opposition. Now they're playing tough opposition and seeing some results of that.
But one of the things I sense is that players like Hall, Nuge, Eberle had an exaggerated sense of how good they were based on seeing easier minutes and as much offensive zone starts and PP as the team could throw at them.

All the Oilers really succeeded in doing is distorting the apparent worth of these players by affording them easy pts. They didn't have to work too hard in their first year together, and now they are fairly shocked with how hard it is in the NHL (Nuge specifically feeling this).

When working rookies and sophomores in, is it not logical to work them in slowly against lesser opponents and easier situations so they can gain a bearing on the competition? What did you want the oilers to do, throw them to the wolves against the top lines and dmen so they fail and lose all confidence? Somehow making them feel like the nhl is harder than it was would magically turn them into better players. Maybe they will learn their lesson for next year after finding out how tough it actually is this year.

 

[Replacement*]

When working rookies and sophomores in, is it not logical to work them in slowly against lesser opponents and easier situations so they can gain a bearing on the competition? What did you want the oilers to do, throw them to the wolves against the top lines and dmen so they fail and lose all confidence? Somehow making them feel like the nhl is harder than it was would magically turn them into better players. Maybe they will learn their lesson for next year after finding out how tough it actually is this year.

What should have occurred is sheltering. That's how you work players in. What the Oilers did instead was plain nuts. Putting all the kids together was stupid. Horc should've been matched with guys like Hall and Eberle every day. Damned be the pts, we weren't winning anything anyway. A guy like Nuge should've been with role players like Hendricks, Smyth, maybe even Gaz (just using examples) and getting a gradual acclimatizing to the league with not as much expectation and with ample protection.

The kids are kinda burned out. I don't blame them either. I'd gladly sacrifice around 20pts off of each of their rookie seasons in exchange for them learning something more about NHL hockey and veteran play.

 

[Shanahanigans]

Did you guys hear Button's interview with Stauffer on Oilers now this past Friday? Basically, Stauffer said that RNH has actually put on 9-10 lb of muscle during the season and his body fat is way down, due to him following Dallas Eakins' fitness plan for him. Button said that was most likely the reason RNH was struggling, and that Eakins was not a strength and conditioning coach so he shouldn't try to be one. He said that what made RNH so good was his quickness and agility. 190lbs of muscle just means a slower RNH.

He said that RNH needs to get stronger without adding a ton of weight, ESPECIALLY over sucha short period of time (10lbs of muscle in a few months is huge, especially considering how much hockey he's playing.) He also said that the loss in body fat for RNH just means a loss in energy. He had a lot of negative things to say about Eakins, but in terms of RNH's play, he essentially said that Eakins' fitness plan for RNH is why RNH is struggling so much on the ice.

 

[The Dayvan Cowboy]

He didn't put on 10lbs of muscle. If he put on 10lbs of something it was lean mass with some muscle. While I can't speak for RNH, but I find myself getting only faster / more explosive the more muscle or lean mass I put on -- that, and I don't really know anyone who has gotten significantly slower with only 10lbs added weight.

He's throwing out complete ******** to try and create excuses for RNH.