Ryan Kesler

[thekernel]

Kesler trade proposals already.

Gotta love it.

There's no telling what a Canucks fan can cook up when he's on an internet forum. I for one am not pushing any panic buttons, he will have his chances.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Was it him who set up Higgins for that point-blank chance, or Hansen?

Either way, seemed like his line was the only one that could generate much of anything against SJS in the early going.

Him.

The issue with Kesler is once again the same: he no longer trusts Higgins. And as per usual, his ego gets the better of him and he attempts to do everything himself. Kesler absolutely needs linemates he can trust to be effective. Booth and either Kassian or Burrows is the logical trial and error.

 

[Havre]

Him.

The issue with Kesler is once again the same: he no longer trusts Higgins. And as per usual, his ego gets the better of him and he attempts to do everything himself. Kesler absolutely needs linemates he can trust to be effective. Booth and either Kassian or Burrows is the logical trial and error.

Don't necessarily disagree, but if you move Higgins of a 2nd line you don't really have much to choose from unless you move Higgins up to the 1st (which definitely shouldn't happen as a permanent solution).

Two out of Burrows, Booth, Kassian and Hansen.

Booth - Kesler - Kassian.

With:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows

Then Higgins and Hansen on the 3rd with whoever C looks decent at any given time.

Actually does make a lot of sense in my opinion. Fairly good mix of size, play making ability and finishing.

 

[vanuck]

Him.

The issue with Kesler is once again the same: he no longer trusts Higgins. And as per usual, his ego gets the better of him and he attempts to do everything himself. Kesler absolutely needs linemates he can trust to be effective. Booth and either Kassian or Burrows is the logical trial and error.

I don't know if that's really the case. Higgy had a good year alongside Kes and it's hard to think that the latter would lose trust in his linemate like that so quickly. Because if it was true, that would mean the real issue is Kesler himself and you're forever trying to solve a problem where there shouldn't be one. That said, I've gone on record as saying Daniel would be a perfect fit too. Also agree with Booth and Kassian.

------

As an aside, Higgins seems to get his fair share of chances in tight but gets stoned often because he doesn't roof them. I don't know if he was like this in Montreal even with his 20+ goal seasons but would love to see him pull that off when he gets another opportunity.

 

[Lord Flacko*]

Trading Kesler is possibly the worst thing we could do right now.

 

[Havre]

Trading Kesler is possibly the worst thing we could do right now.

Based on?

 

[shortshorts]

Him.

The issue with Kesler is once again the same: he no longer trusts Higgins. And as per usual, his ego gets the better of him and he attempts to do everything himself. Kesler absolutely needs linemates he can trust to be effective. Booth and either Kassian or Burrows is the logical trial and error.

How about he gets his ass out of his head and continue to feed Higgins and Booth?

You think a player like Datsyuk (yes he's much better offensively) trusts Abdelkater, and Cleary night in and night out?

 

[Tiranis]

Him.

The issue with Kesler is once again the same: he no longer trusts Higgins. And as per usual, his ego gets the better of him and he attempts to do everything himself. Kesler absolutely needs linemates he can trust to be effective. Booth and either Kassian or Burrows is the logical trial and error.

That's complete and utter ********. Kesler was yet again the weakest link on his line. I would understand these type of posts if he was controlling the play but nothing was happening because he wasn't trusting his linemates. That's not the case as he's playing worse than both of them.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Based on?

Based on mere buy-low, sell-high principles. Kesler's value is at its absolute lowest. I said during the 2012 season that we should look at the possibility of trading Kesler and if we could get a good return for him then we should pull the trigger. With the way he plays the game I just don't see his body holding up into his 30's. He's still probably got a few strong years coming up, but his value will never be higher than it was just over a year ago.

At this point we aren't going to get a whole lot for him. Sure the return won't be garbage because it's still Ryan Kesler and he has a track record, but we won't get the quality of player that we probably would have during the 2012 season.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Comment was directed towards you at all.

They only come in full force when he's not effective for a stretch.

I have never advocated trading him before now. I've always been fairly silent on the Kesler question.

But after years of playing armchair GM, and trying to find wingers that can play with him and form a cohesive unit, and watching the team do the exact same thing - I've finally realized/accepted that the issue is not his wingers.

The problem lies with him. He does not grasp the team concept. Our 2nd line will never be productive or cohesive or matchup well against another team's as long as he's on it.

Great player, but perhaps should never have been elevated outside of a checking role.

 

[Havre]

Based on mere buy-low, sell-high principles. Kesler's value is at its absolute lowest. I said during the 2012 season that we should look at the possibility of trading Kesler and if we could get a good return for him then we should pull the trigger. With the way he plays the game I just don't see his body holding up into his 30's. He's still probably got a few strong years coming up, but his value will never be higher than it was just over a year ago.

At this point we aren't going to get a whole lot for him. Sure the return won't be garbage because it's still Ryan Kesler and he has a track record, but we won't get the quality of player that we probably would have during the 2012 season.

I obviously see the logic, but I'm not sure how "real" that principle is. NHL hockey players are not commodities. For most players there aren't that many teams that kind of player, at that age, with that contract etc. they would be interested in offering something realistic for. My guess is that for most players being shopped around the offers teams get back on these will vary greatly. So "value" is very tough to place on a player.

I love Kesler and I really hopes he can get back to his best now that he is injury free. But if we can get a slightly younger C and a pick or a talented youngster for him - then maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world trading him. Both for us and Kesler.

 

[shortshorts]

That's complete and utter ********. Kesler was yet again the weakest link on his line. I would understand these type of posts if he was controlling the play but nothing was happening because he wasn't trusting his linemates. That's not the case as he's playing worse than both of them.

Exactly.

I have never advocated trading him before now. I've always been fairly silent on the Kesler question.

But after years of playing armchair GM, and trying to find wingers that can play with him and form a cohesive unit, and watching the team do the exact same thing - I've finally realized/accepted that the issue is not his wingers.

The problem lies with him. He does not grasp the team concept. Our 2nd line will never be productive or cohesive or matchup well against another team's as long as he's on it.

Great player, but perhaps should never have been elevated outside of a checking role.

Yup. Though, to be fair, we could never predict how big his ego would grow.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I obviously see the logic, but I'm not sure how "real" that principle is. NHL hockey players are not commodities. For most players there aren't that many teams that kind of player, at that age, with that contract etc. they would be interested in offering something realistic for. My guess is that for most players being shopped around the offers teams get back on these will vary greatly. So "value" is very tough to place on a player.

I love Kesler and I really hopes he can get back to his best now that he is injury free. But if we can get a slightly younger C and a pick or a talented youngster for him - then maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world trading him. Both for us and Kesler.

Sadly, like everyone else, he has a NTC. While he would probably be willing to go to Detroit they don't really have anyone I'd want that fits your description of an ideal return (something I agree with).

In terms of your first paragraph, I can see your point too. I think it's probably somewhere in between though as obviously player values do fluctuate based on performance, but you're right in that they aren't pure commodities. There are also factors that fans don't even consider such as personality and a GM's assessment of how a particular personality would fit with his current roster.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Kesler is not going to get traded; plain and simple based on the way the team is currently constructed.

Also, Gillis does not have the balls to do it IMO.

If he were ever to be traded, I'd focus on the Flyers and the ridiculous circus that is their organization.

I'd be targeting Voracek and B. Schenn in the deal.

 

[dave babych returns]

Guys, not to gloat or anything but I have been saying all day that it is 9:10 AM, I'm just glad to see people are finally agreeing with me.

 

[gobi]

If a trade is not happening anytime soon then perhaps the next best option is to demote Kesler to the 3rd line. It will be a kick in the pants for him.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Kesler is not going to get traded; plain and simple based on the way the team is currently constructed.

Also, Gillis does not have the balls to do it IMO.

If he were ever to be traded, I'd focus on the Flyers and the ridiculous circus that is their organization.

I'd be targeting Voracek and B. Schenn in the deal.

I think Voracek AND Schenn is a bit much, but Schenn is exactly the type of player the Canucks should target.

Interestingly enough, there were rumours that there was Luo for Bryz & Schenn deal prior to the draft, and we would've bought out Bryz. Philly pulled the plug a the last minute, possibly because Lecavalier became available. Dumb move.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I think Voracek AND Schenn is a bit much, but Schenn is exactly the type of player the Canucks should target.

Interestingly enough, there were rumours that there was Luo for Bryz & Schenn deal prior to the draft, and we would've bought out Bryz. Philly pulled the plug a the last minute, possibly because Lecavalier became available. Dumb move.

The Canucks would definitely have to add to the deal; possibly pick(s) or prospects.

I know Philly is lacking in defensive prospects but I doubt Gillis (nor fans) would want to give up someone like Corrado.

Philly would have no need for Schroeder and someone like Gaunce would essentially be redundant with their centre depth,

More likely someone like Jensen would be included if a "top" prospect of the Canucks were to be included.

 

[mercurium]

If a trade is not happening anytime soon then perhaps the next best option is to demote Kesler to the 3rd line. It will be a kick in the pants for him.

I'd trade Kesler, Burrows and Bieksa at the trade deadline. Corrado, Jensen and Horvat all could slide into their positions. The depth might hurt for a year or two til the trade returns kick in but honestly at this point Canucks aren't going anywhere deep. Those three should give some decent returns and they aren't getting any younger.

 

[Havre]

Sadly, like everyone else, he has a NTC. While he would probably be willing to go to Detroit they don't really have anyone I'd want that fits your description of an ideal return (something I agree with).

In terms of your first paragraph, I can see your point too. I think it's probably somewhere in between though as obviously player values do fluctuate based on performance, but you're right in that they aren't pure commodities. There are also factors that fans don't even consider such as personality and a GM's assessment of how a particular personality would fit with his current roster.

I know. I was just arguing against statements like "it would have been the worst thing we could do" - not necessarily, if we could, is my point.

If everyone are to honour their NTCs then nothing much will happen with our team for quite a while. And we can only pray that our core once again steps up. That probably sounds more negative and pessimistic than I mean it to. I think we got a fantastic set of core players generally on good or decent contracts. But I also think they are basically all somewhat under performing - playing at 90-95% of their ability. I just want something to happen to "ignite" something that gets us going again. Hopefully that something is Tortorella and then we don't have to talk more about trading Kesler.

 

[gobi]

I'd trade Kesler, Burrows and Bieksa at the trade deadline. Corrado, Jensen and Horvat all could slide into their positions. The depth might hurt for a year or two til the trade returns kick in but honestly at this point Canucks aren't going anywhere deep. Those three should give some decent returns and they aren't getting any younger.

I agree with this actually. But as one poster said, I don't think Gillis has the guts to change the core. Or he is going to ask for too much again.

 

[SgtToody]

Based on mere buy-low, sell-high principles. Kesler's value is at its absolute lowest. I said during the 2012 season that we should look at the possibility of trading Kesler and if we could get a good return for him then we should pull the trigger. With the way he plays the game I just don't see his body holding up into his 30's. He's still probably got a few strong years coming up, but his value will never be higher than it was just over a year ago.

At this point we aren't going to get a whole lot for him. Sure the return won't be garbage because it's still Ryan Kesler and he has a track record, but we won't get the quality of player that we probably would have during the 2012 season.

Good point. However, who's to say it won't get worse, ie injury, doghouse etc? I too thought he was an wxcellent candidate to be traded after the Cup run, but Gillis knew best. No sense in asset management, right? It's true, there's a risk to both sides of the coin, but look at the Sharks; Wilson gambled and converted some of his assets to younger prospects and voila! Of course we may need to hire their scouting staff...

 

[deadinthewater]

Good point. However, who's to say it won't get worse, ie injury, doghouse etc? I too thought he was an wxcellent candidate to be traded after the Cup run, but Gillis knew best. No sense in asset management, right? It's true, there's a risk to both sides of the coin, but look at the Sharks; Wilson gambled and converted some of his assets to younger prospects and voila! Of course we may need to hire their scouting staff...

How could anyone fathom trading him after our Cup run? He was getting better and better: 25 goals to 40 goals; a 75 pt player. Sharks dropped dead weight in Clowe and Murray.

 

[Tiranis]

Good point. However, who's to say it won't get worse, ie injury, doghouse etc? I too thought he was an wxcellent candidate to be traded after the Cup run, but Gillis knew best. No sense in asset management, right? It's true, there's a risk to both sides of the coin, but look at the Sharks; Wilson gambled and converted some of his assets to younger prospects and voila! Of course we may need to hire their scouting staff...

Sharks have only traded secondary assets. They've never traded away a core member of their roster. Last year when people thought they were giving up, they actually made a smart move in giving up all their slow players to further cement their identity as a big and fast team (rather than the slow team they were for years).

 

[arsmaster*]

Him.

The issue with Kesler is once again the same: he no longer trusts Higgins. And as per usual, his ego gets the better of him and he attempts to do everything himself. Kesler absolutely needs linemates he can trust to be effective. Booth and either Kassian or Burrows is the logical trial and error.

Higgins has had the best scoring chances on the team this season.