RW Vitaly Kravtsov (2018, 9th, NYR; traded to VAN) Part2

[Rangerfan4life90]

whats the updated outlook on Kravtsov? he used to be every rangers fans' favorite prospect. now, he seems to be filled with controversy. i hope he reaches his potential tho. he looks great and real fun when on his game.

Mostly due to the drama of last season where he didn't make the team. Not due to his talent.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

If he's in his 4th/6th season and still struggling, it's at the point he's already a bust or being discussed as a bust. Andersson is four drafts removed from being drafted, and people are calling him a bust. If a 2OA isn't tracking as a 2OA after two seasons, thats time to be seriously worried.

I wouldn't suggest Kakko is a bust or anything like that yet and I don't think he will be a bust, but its the 2nd pick in the draft. That pick is going to be scrutinized a lot early on and that player is going to be expected to contribute right away.

Unfortunately, you're right in the scrutiny part. It's in the same way as Jack Hughes (even though I'm not a Devils fan). Some are already calling him a bust. Far too early to declare that.

 

[Legend123]

Mostly due to the drama of last season where he didn't make the team. Not due to his talent.

True but his numbers are not encouraging.

 

[wings5]

True but his numbers are not encouraging.

Idk the kid first I remember was like 6'1 around draft time or just before and now he is mostly listed at 6'4. So he has still been developing physically while developing his game, most other prospects his age are not dealing with that.

 

[Legend123]

Idk the kid first I remember was like 6'1 around draft time or just before and now he is mostly listed at 6'4. So he has still been developing physically while developing his game, most other prospects his age are not dealing with that.

He was always listed at 6'4 tho, at least according to what I remember

 

[wings5]

He was always listed at 6'4 tho, at least according to what I remember

Numerous sites like this one had him at 6'2. I remember him earlier in the season listed at 6'1.
Vitali Kravtsov | Vitali Kravtsov Profile | Vitali Kravtsov Scouting Report 2018

If you see him at the u-18s and WJC you can see he was shorter as well, he grew pretty recently and is still growing/filling out.

 

[Legend123]

Numerous sites like this one had him at 6'2. I remember him earlier in the season listed at 6'1.
Vitali Kravtsov | Vitali Kravtsov Profile | Vitali Kravtsov Scouting Report 2018

If you see him at the u-18s and WJC you can see he was shorter as well, he grew pretty recently and is still growing/filling out.

Interesting. Thx for sharing

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

whats the updated outlook on Kravtsov? he used to be every rangers fans' favorite prospect. now, he seems to be filled with controversy. i hope he reaches his potential tho. he looks great and real fun when on his game.

They always overrated him. He was never as good as some claimed. He's still a good prospect with potential, but now also has some obvious red flags to his game.

If we get a middle six winger, that won't be a bad outcome. A second line winger, and thats a good outcome. Anything better, and that'll be a great outcome. But I don't think its a certainty that he'll be an NHL winger.

 

[Legend123]

They always overrated him. He was never as good as some claimed. He's still a good prospect with potential, but now also has some obvious red flags to his game.

If we get a middle six winger, that won't be a bad outcome. A second line winger, and thats a good outcome. Anything better, and that'll be a great outcome. But I don't think its a certainty that he'll be an NHL winger.

I wonder if the rangers would use him as a trade chip... I hope mtl would show interest. He might need a change of scenery and afresh start...

 

[wings5]

They always overrated him. He was never as good as some claimed. He's still a good prospect with potential, but now also has some obvious red flags to his game.

If we get a middle six winger, that won't be a bad outcome. A second line winger, and thats a good outcome. Anything better, and that'll be a great outcome. But I don't think its a certainty that he'll be an NHL winger.

Best case for him is maybe after this season he gets taken in the expansion draft by Seattle or traded to a weak team where he can play.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I wonder if the rangers would use him as a trade chip... I hope mtl would show interest. He might need a change of scenery and afresh start...

I’m sure we would. He’s causing more problems than he’s worth, but probably not for a discount. And no teams going to give up anything significant for him at this point, so he’s not going to be traded.

 

[Legend123]

I’m sure we would. He’s causing more problems than he’s worth, but probably not for a discount. And no teams going to give up anything significant for him at this point, so he’s not going to be traded.

Why not? He can be packaged in a deal for say gaudreau

 

[mm11]

I’m sure we would. He’s causing more problems than he’s worth, but probably not for a discount. And no teams going to give up anything significant for him at this point, so he’s not going to be traded.

he is middling prospect at this point. Does he have the drive and onions? Tons of hype on him since he was drafted

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

Best case for him is maybe after this season he gets taken in the expansion draft by Seattle or traded to a weak team where he can play.

Rangers aren't going to just lose him for nothing in the expansion draft.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Rangers aren't going to just lose him for nothing in the expansion draft.

He's also not expansion draft eligible.

 

[Merrrlin]

he is middling prospect at this point. Does he have the drive and onions? Tons of hype on him since he was drafted

He's 20, so I think the jury is still out. Kuznetsov didn't break out until his 23 year old season, on a very good team. With that being said, Kuz did look more impressive by this time and you could already see his elite potential. Same can't be said for Kravstov.

 

[mm11]

He's 20, so I think the jury is still out. Kuznetsov didn't break out until his 23 year old season, on a very good team. With that being said, Kuz did look more impressive by this time and you could already see his elite potential. Same can't be said for Kravstov.

He is creeping up to 21 in a few short months and cruising into his D3 season. I don't see a strong desire in him to be an NHL player at this point. Could it change? Sure I guess

 

[DollardStLaurent]

Why not? He can be packaged in a deal for say gaudreau

I doubt the Rangers are looking for a Winger with Lafreniere probably coming aboard.. Their need is a 2nd line Center.

 

[Crease]

Loved the pick at the time. Not very high on him at the moment. His post-draft production has been meh and it's looking like he's going to spend his entire D+3 season overseas. Fully acknowledge that he could be a late bloomer, but he's certainly not trending in the right direction.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

So basically he isn't getting recalled at least until after the season?

Perfectly fine. Russian prospects from the KHL simply don't come over to NA at 19 or 20 and theres a reason for that. Rangers thought they could rewrite the script and they were wrong. Let him marinate over there.

 

[Levitate]

Perfectly fine. Russian prospects from the KHL simply don't come over to NA at 19 or 20 and theres a reason for that. Rangers thought they could rewrite the script and they were wrong. Let him marinate over there.

Kravtsov himself wanted to come over and even tried to buy out his KHL contract after being drafted in order to come over for his D+1 season. He was pushing hard to get over to NA, it wasn't the Rangers rushing him (or at least, wasn't JUST the Ranger rushing him...also, they signed him after his KHL deal ran out which is not a bad thing to do considering the lack of transfer agreement and all kinds of other considerations).

That he wasn't ready for the NHL in his D+2 season isn't a huge deal. He still displayed talent but the different style of play is hard to immediately adjust to. The bouncing back to the KHL and then back to NA is really the only part of all of this that has created controversy and it wasn't a great move on his part. But he came back and he worked hard in Hartford and even if his production wasn't fantastic from all accounts the coaching staff were happy with him and the adjustments he was making.

If it wasn't for the pandemic he would be getting a good chance to make the Rangers next season and I'd be cautiously penciling him in on the RW depending on what goes on with trades and free agents. If he didn't make it out of camp I'd be expecting him to force his way back up soon.

With the pandemic...we don't even know if there will legit be a NHL season next year. We know the NHL wants to have one, it may not actually be possible. Even if there is one, it won't start until the end of the year. At that point Kravtsov will have gone what, nearly 10 months without playing hockey? Even if he ends up staying in the KHL all year long this is still a better move for him...he will get to play, he will get to work on things, he will get to develop while playing meaningful games.

 

[JimmyG89]

His post-draft production has been meh and it's looking like he's going to spend his entire D+3 season overseas.

Except for this fact that he has an out clause for his loan when NHL camps begin and I'm pretty sure the Rangers are going to exercise that option if they were asked about it today

 

[goonybird]

Except for this fact that he has an out clause for his loan when NHL camps begin and I'm pretty sure the Rangers are going to exercise that option if they were asked about it today

I've been told this is misinformation so Brooksie can afford an extra night out with the family.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Kravtsov himself wanted to come over and even tried to buy out his KHL contract after being drafted in order to come over for his D+1 season. He was pushing hard to get over to NA, it wasn't the Rangers rushing him (or at least, wasn't JUST the Ranger rushing him...also, they signed him after his KHL deal ran out which is not a bad thing to do considering the lack of transfer agreement and all kinds of other considerations).

That he wasn't ready for the NHL in his D+2 season isn't a huge deal. He still displayed talent but the different style of play is hard to immediately adjust to. The bouncing back to the KHL and then back to NA is really the only part of all of this that has created controversy and it wasn't a great move on his part. But he came back and he worked hard in Hartford and even if his production wasn't fantastic from all accounts the coaching staff were happy with him and the adjustments he was making.

If it wasn't for the pandemic he would be getting a good chance to make the Rangers next season and I'd be cautiously penciling him in on the RW depending on what goes on with trades and free agents. If he didn't make it out of camp I'd be expecting him to force his way back up soon.

With the pandemic...we don't even know if there will legit be a NHL season next year. We know the NHL wants to have one, it may not actually be possible. Even if there is one, it won't start until the end of the year. At that point Kravtsov will have gone what, nearly 10 months without playing hockey? Even if he ends up staying in the KHL all year long this is still a better move for him...he will get to play, he will get to work on things, he will get to develop while playing meaningful games.

I see a few things wrong with your portrayal.

1. The lack of a transfer agreement is not reason enough to upend the development of a top 10 pick. Who was the last NHL caliber pick from the KHL that didn’t eventually come over? Why try to force players to come over when you want them to as opposed to when they feel ready?

2. More than the bouncing back and forth has created controversy. It’s also been his attitude. The team openly talks about his lack of maturity, as evidenced by Davidson’s recent interview. He was benched in an AHL game for poor play and then moved down the lines. Instead of working hard and regaining his spot over players he’s clearly better than, he went home. The bouncing back and forth also says something about the situation. It’s not an irrelevant factoid. His interviews in the Russian press always seem to cause headlines in New York. Can you say the same for Panarin, Buchnevich, Shestyorkin, Georgiyev? No, you cannot because they don’t say things that they shouldn’t be saying.

3. Where is the spot for him? There’s no top six role available, probably no third line role available, and it’s much more likely the team has veterans who can play a gritty style and PK or even younger players with that style over a finesse winger. I also don’t see how he’s done anything yet to deserve a spot in the NHL. If you are a forward and can’t even score .5PPG in the AHL, you shouldn’t be promoted to the NHL. Let him prove he deserves a spot.

 

[Levitate]

I see a few things wrong with your portrayal.

1. The lack of a transfer agreement is not reason enough to upend the development of a top 10 pick. Who was the last NHL caliber pick from the KHL that didn’t eventually come over? Why try to force players to come over when you want them to as opposed to when they feel ready?

Again I feel it's important to point out that Kravtsov wanted to come over as soon as possible and was himself pushing hard for it. If we want to say the Rangers should have shown more restraint and forced him to go back that's one thing, but they also didn't force him to leave the KHL before he felt ready since he was trying hard on his own to get signed and over to NA.
I think the lack of transfer agreement does play a role here because NHL teams want to have control over their prospects development and would rather sign a player than lose ability to do anything with them for 3 years or whatever when they re-sign with their KHL team. Again though I think you have to take into account Kravtsov's own desires and role in this.

2. More than the bouncing back and forth has created controversy. It’s also been his attitude. The team openly talks about his lack of maturity, as evidenced by Davidson’s recent interview. He was benched in an AHL game for poor play and then moved down the lines. Instead of working hard and regaining his spot over players he’s clearly better than, he went home.

I mean, yes those things are all intertwined to some degree. He went back the way he did and dealt with it the way he did because he was a 19 year old kid and there's some immaturity there (though also I think he was getting hit with the culture transition and struggling to deal with being in a NA dominated locker room and adjusting to all of that in the AHL).
The coming back and putting his head down and working and drawing praise from the AHL coaching staff shows growth and maturity though, which we shouldn't discount either.

3. Where is the spot for him? There’s no top six role available, probably no third line role available, and it’s much more likely the team has veterans who can play a gritty style and PK or even younger players with that style over a finesse winger. I also don’t see how he’s done anything yet to deserve a spot in the NHL. If you are a forward and can’t even score .5PPG in the AHL, you shouldn’t be promoted to the NHL. Let him prove he deserves a spot.

I doubt they will re-sign Fast at this point (probably don't have the cap room) and we have yet to see what roster moves may be made this offseason but Buchnevich is a possibility to be moved for various reasons (I kind of think they'll wait on that one but if the right deal pops up then I think they won't hesitate), but Kravtsov will be competing with players like Gauthier and Letteri for the 3rd line RW spot, and third lines these days aren't just "checking lines". In general, if he shows up as the best player in camp for that spot then he'll win it regardless of what he did in the AHL. If he doesn't, he'll need more time in the AHL. I'm not "handing" him a spot but I am saying there is an opportunity for him depending on what happens with roster building this offseason.