Rutherford to Rossi: "You're a ****ing jerk. ... Your opinion is ****."

[Waffle Fries]

I like Horny, but Spaling drags the deal down. It is possible that JR could have got Horny and kept Neal. Maybe I'm wrong classifying the trade as bad, but Spaling eats cap space takes a valued spot in our lineup an I'm still not sure what he brings to the Pens with helping them win on a nightly basis.

Can you explain how?

Spaling hasn't been a negative asset for us either. He's vanilla so people don't like him. He definitely hasn't hurt us in any way.

 

[Gurglesons]

Love that this thread turned into an argument about 1 - 10 scales versus grading scales.

 

[djt153]

this thread could use an ice cream

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Love that this thread turned into an argument about 1 - 10 scales versus grading scales.

I mean, considering the basis for this thread's existence... it's not all that ridiculous.

 

[Shady Machine]

Depends on my alcohol intake at the time

Way to side step the question. You would know that I meant she was average. Your scale of 1-10 shows that a 5-6 is average. 1-10 rankings generally go like this:

1-4 terrible to below average
5-6 average
7-10 above average to excellent

We didn't interpret your scale wrong, you created your scale wrong.

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread. All of the GM's should go!

 

[sf expat71]

this thread could use an ice cream

Look at what this team has done to us! We're all bitter, jaded, miserable fans who constantly bicker (about grading systems even) and *****. I want to like my team and I want to enjoy hockey. And ice cream...

 

[Waffle Fries]

Some teams can afford to trade a first rounder. I think when we got Iggy we COULD have afforded that deal, especially since they didn't give up much more than the first and because they were acquiring a Hall-of-Famer. Iggy > Perron, all day every day. Of course, we screwed that one up as well.

THIS year? We really couldn't afford it. I will also state that I think ALL teams who dealt away 2015 firsts will live to regret those decisions. I was shocked so many were moved.

Organizations don't value wingers as much as the other positions, but this year's draft has a plethora of great winger talent. We'll probably see 5-10 in the NHL right away, too.

More than any other team, and moreso this year than any other year, we really couldn't afford to move our pick this year for anything less than a total slam dunk. Some may suggest David Perron is a slam dunk, but I don't believe that to be the case.

Iggy, in his prime, is a much better use of a 1st rounder than Perron. But we didn't trade for that. We traded for a 30-something UFA. Perron is the same age as our core and signed for another season. Trading for Perron is a much wiser use of that asset.

I'm not sure what gives you the impression that this organization would have drafted and developed a winger that would be able to have a bigger impact on the team than Perron in the next 3 years. We took that first round pick and put it in a time machine.

 

[Winger for Hire]

This all easier than trying to explain the 20-80 grading system for scouting to someone who has no idea what it is.

 

[kodoshin]

So you nullify the last 5 numbers of the scale... effectively making it pointless. If 1 through 5 are all the same, there is literally no reason for them to exist. Therefore, it's an incorrect application of the 1-10 scale. Quite simple really.

Back to Hockey. If you want the last 5 ranks to be more meaningful perhaps some rejiggering is due. They could represent grander levels of failure. The base rating of 1 could be the equivalent of a letter grade M, for Milbury.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Can you explain how?

Spaling hasn't been a negative asset for us either. He's vanilla so people don't like him. He definitely hasn't hurt us in any way.

I believe what you stated above is the main problem with this team. The Pens built a roster to avoid mistakes, almost using early 2000 NJ Devils as a template. Now we are stuck between two identities. High end talent of Sid, Gen and Letang vs the guys who won't kill you in a game.

Problem is, the Pens have too many guys that make limited mistakes but rarely help them win. How many games down the stretch and in the playoffs did you think, glad we have Spaling in the lineup? Spaling doesn't hurt us, but is that the new goal for building a team?? I want guys that bring something unique to the table that actively help the team win. If you don't score, then you should be a voracious forechecker. You should be nasty as hell to play against. Otherwise, what's the point. Are these players simply designed to play at even and kill time to get the stars back out there to win it for them???

This mindset is the exact reason we traded Despres. Yes Lovejoy is safer, but does LOVEJOY help you win???? I can think of at least 7 -10 games this year that Despres played a huge part in our success.

 

[Shady Machine]

I believe what you stated above is the main problem with this team. The Pens built a roster to avoid mistakes, almost using early 2000 NJ Devils as a template. Now we are stuck between two identities. High end talent of Sid, Gen and Letang vs the guys who won't kill you in a game.

Problem is, the Pens have too many guys that make limited mistakes but rarely help them win. How many games down the stretch and in the playoffs did you think, glad we have Spaling in the lineup? Spaling doesn't hurt us, but is that the new goal for building a team?? I want guys that bring something unique to the table that actively help the team win. If you don't score, then you should be a voracious forechecker. You should be nasty as hell to play against. Otherwise, what's the point. Are these players simply designed to play at even and kill time to get the stars back out there to win it for them???

This mindset is the exact reason we traded Despres. Yes Lovejoy is safer, but does LOVEJOY help you win???? I can think of at least 7 -10 games this year that Despres played a huge part in our success.

This post I agree with. The Pens don't really have an identity and they collected a weird collection of safe 'meh' forwards.

Spaling, Winnik, Lapierre (minus the trolling), Kunitz (now), Sutter (minus the snipe down the wing) are all similar players. Solid defensively, limited mistakes, but mediocre offensive ability. There are no game changers there.

Add in Downie and Comeau who are streaky and you have a very safe group of mostly soft, mostly slow, mostly mediocre forwards. They can limit the Rangers to 2 goals because they make limited mistakes, but they don't have the talent to win games on the offensive side of the puck. So then you have to rely on Sid, Geno, Horny, and Perron to get things done. When one is playing hurt and another goes cold, this team is screwed.

JR can't really be blamed for most of the situation on D, other than Lovejoy for Despres, but he can be blamed for the collective group he acquired. Each player individually was a decent pick up (some better than others), but the collective group is slow, soft, and without an identity other than 'meh'.

 

[cassius]

Way to side step the question. You would know that I meant she was average. Your scale of 1-10 shows that a 5-6 is average. 1-10 rankings generally go like this:

1-4 terrible to below average
5-6 average
7-10 above average to excellent

We didn't interpret your scale wrong, you created your scale wrong.

Anyway, sorry to derail the thread. All of the GM's should go!

When alcohol is in play, a 2 turns into a 7 real quickly.. so had to clarify that.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

It's gonna be a real shame when JR is fired, and the gaggle of ****heads take over. Not because JR is some great GM, but I think we're gonna see a lot more Despres trade type of moves.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's gonna be a real shame when JR is fired, and the gaggle of ****heads take over. Not because JR is some great GM, but I think we're gonna see a lot more Despres trade type of moves.

JR is historically bad with trades. I'd rather have someone else, even a rookie potentially trade whoever is going to be moved this offseason. They will most likely completely clean house if we go out in the first round this year.

 

[djt153]

It's gonna be a real shame when JR is fired, and the gaggle of ****heads take over. Not because JR is some great GM, but I think we're gonna see a lot more Despres trade type of moves.

on the bright side, the pens just dont have that many more attractive assets to trade! maatta/pouliot/kapanen are going to turrn into engelland/goligoski/neal

 

[DearDiary]

How in the hell could we have gotten Horny without giving up Neal?

You are fine to dislike the trade, but we weren't getting Hornqvist without giving up Neal.

The Pens didn't need to get Hornqvist then. My understanding of the deal is that JR went to Nashville and wanted Hornqvist, he didn't shop Neal. Which is why a 40 goal ppg player on a good contract got undervalued.

The Pens got a good hardworking player, but the Pens biggest need was a winger with playmaking skills. The reason Crosby and Malkin get shut down in the playoffs is they pass the puck and can't expect it back in a scoring chance.

 

[Houston Penguin]

The Pens didn't need to get Hornqvist then. My understanding of the deal is that JR went to Nashville and wanted Hornqvist, he didn't shop Neal. Which is why a 40 goal ppg player on a good contract got undervalued.

The Pens got a good hardworking player, but the Pens biggest need was a winger with playmaking skills. The reason Crosby and Malkin get shut down in the playoffs is they pass the puck and can't expect it back in a scoring chance.

We ALL saw NEAL in the playoffs .... he didn't help Crosby or Malkin either. Hell, we barely heard from him and guess who's not hearing from him now .... Nashville.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I believe what you stated above is the main problem with this team. The Pens built a roster to avoid mistakes, almost using early 2000 NJ Devils as a template. Now we are stuck between two identities. High end talent of Sid, Gen and Letang vs the guys who won't kill you in a game.

Problem is, the Pens have too many guys that make limited mistakes but rarely help them win. How many games down the stretch and in the playoffs did you think, glad we have Spaling in the lineup? Spaling doesn't hurt us, but is that the new goal for building a team?? I want guys that bring something unique to the table that actively help the team win. If you don't score, then you should be a voracious forechecker. You should be nasty as hell to play against. Otherwise, what's the point. Are these players simply designed to play at even and kill time to get the stars back out there to win it for them???

This mindset is the exact reason we traded Despres. Yes Lovejoy is safer, but does LOVEJOY help you win???? I can think of at least 7 -10 games this year that Despres played a huge part in our success.

I don't disagree with most of this, I just don't see Spaling as a problem on this team. It's the combination of Spaling + the rest of the bottom six. I've said before, but I think the addition of Spaling and Sundqvist's potential make Sutter expendable. If we move Sutter and use Spaling at 3C while Sundqvist develops, then he becomes a much more valuable piece to us.

The only thing I disagree with is that it is the same thought process that went into the Lovejoy/Despres trade. I think that particular case was about certain people liking one guy and disliking another while also incorrectly analyzing talent and who was supporting who. (I.e. Fowler was helping Lovejoy, Despres was helping Scuderi. Team saw it the other way around)

 

[MtlPenFan]

Anyone dare listen to the Podcast of Rossi on the Trib show? I can't do it.

 

[Gooch]

Earlier this season the trade people were using to defend Rutherford was the Perron trade and now that has soured so what on earth can be used in this guy's defense? He was a known quantity when we got him and that was as a crap GM for Carolina. I think it should be painfully obvious that the magic pixie dust we have in pittsburgh wasnt going to turn him into a decent GM all of a sudden. He is what he is.

The Johnston hiring was the only thing I actually liked that he did besides the obvious firing of Bylsma. I am disappointed with how things turned up with Johnston but at the very least there is upside that he will turn into a good coach and that the team will get more offensively creative as he has time to integrate his system. It could fail like any other coach could fail but it's at least nice to have hope that it could be better, there is none with a gm like Rutherford.

It just sucks because if we had a guy who did literally nothing as GM outside of fire Bylsma we'd probably be in a better situation this offseason and next year.

 

[cassius]

Earlier this season the trade people were using to defend Rutherford was the Perron trade and now that has soured so what on earth can be used in this guy's defense? He was a known quantity when we got him and that was as a crap GM for Carolina. I think it should be painfully obvious that the magic pixie dust we have in pittsburgh wasnt going to turn him into a decent GM all of a sudden. He is what he is.

The Johnston hiring was the only thing I actually liked that he did besides the obvious firing of Bylsma. I am disappointed with how things turned up with Johnston but at the very least there is upside that he will turn into a good coach and that the team will get more offensively creative as he has time to integrate his system. It could fail like any other coach could fail but it's at least nice to have hope that it could be better, there is none with a gm like Rutherford.

It just sucks because if we had a guy who did literally nothing as GM outside of fire Bylsma we'd probably be in a better situation this offseason and next year.

Cole trade, Comeau and that's about it.

Downie is a tossup.

His low risk/ high reward moves have panned out...

But his high risk/high reward moves have totally flopped (Despres, Ehrhoff, Perron, Winnik.. altho you could argue it's a high risk low reward move).

 

[shaler79]

For GMJR Love Rossi Let's Go Pens!!!!

 

[Gooch]

Iggy, in his prime, is a much better use of a 1st rounder than Perron. But we didn't trade for that. We traded for a 30-something UFA. Perron is the same age as our core and signed for another season. Trading for Perron is a much wiser use of that asset.

I'm not sure what gives you the impression that this organization would have drafted and developed a winger that would be able to have a bigger impact on the team than Perron in the next 3 years. We took that first round pick and put it in a time machine.

To a degree that is the same argument that was made every year we traded our first and 2nds. Then when we realize our system sucks and we have nobody able to step up without having to overpay in FA or overpay in trade. We also never get that guy performing at a great level making league minimum salary so our team is always either playing at or below it's cap hit salary wise instead of above it. Out of the cup winners there was always seemingly a common denominator, key performances out of players grossly underpaid meaning they were getting more production out of their salary than other teams were.

 

[Waffle Fries]

To a degree that is the same argument that was made every year we traded our first and 2nds. Then when we realize our system sucks and we have nobody able to step up without having to overpay in FA or overpay in trade. We also never get that guy performing at a great level making league minimum salary so our team is always either playing at or below it's cap hit salary wise instead of above it. Out of the cup winners there was always seemingly a common denominator, key performances out of players grossly underpaid meaning they were getting more production out of their salary than other teams were.

I don't ever recall using our high draft picks for long term pieces, so I'm not seeing how it is the same argument that was made every year.

 

[robopigeon]

I have this gut feeling that Billy G was behind a lot of the bad **** lately -- trading Despres, not trading Kunitz and Scuderi, etc. Would make sense, as he's probably pretty good friends with all of them, including Lovejoy. If I'm right, and he takes over as GM... I'm going to need some time away from this team.