Rutherford to Rossi: "You're a ****ing jerk. ... Your opinion is ****."

[Le Magnifique 66]

Not a Chiarelli fan anyway. He had mostly poor drafts and committed an unforgivable sin in trading away Seguin. Not even sure why Edmonton would want him unless they want to hire some nut that will come up with the great idea to trade McDavid if the team is still struggling in a few years.

I wasn't as against McGuire last summer as some. He intrigues me because of how right he usually is when it comes to prospects. He is a risky hire though.

I do expect the next GM to be one of JR's assistants. I'm going to hate that but I'm already bracing myself for it.

How much did Chiarelli really want to trade Seguin? Let's not forget the guy he was working from is a little hard headed ( Neely ) He wanted Julien fired the year before they won the Cup!

As for the drafts he didn't do that bad of a job. A lot better then we have

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

For me, it's all about Trevor Timmins. Look at where Montreal is right now. The biggest reason might be Carey Price, but I would argue that Timmins is probably the second-biggest reason for their success...ahead of Bergevin, ahead of Therrien, ahead of Subban.

Timmins has repeatedly come up with gem after gem. He goes after skill in the late rounds. Guys like Martin Reway, Artturi Lehkonen, Charles Hudon. Those are first and second round talents, taken in the 4th, 2nd and 5th rounds. He also gets grit and toughness, too...guys like McCarron, Thrower et al. He doesn't seem to have a bias towards any particular part of the world, or league either.

He provides the depth, Bergevin and Therrien reap the benefits. I want to steal that man away from that organization SO BADLY.

You don't have to convince me, the only problem I could see is a lack or experience. That's not that big of a deal if he surrounds himself with a **** load of hockey guys

 

[Jaded-Fan]

.....

Furthermore, we need to stop saying things like, "I'm not sure what gives you the impression that this organization would have drafted and developed a winger that would be able to have a bigger impact on the team than Perron in the next 3 years."

THAT is the problem, people. You don't just keep trading picks away because, well, 'we can't develop wingers properly anyway.' That is how teams go from champions to also-rans. It's how teams become mediocre and stay there for a LONG time.

I agreed with your points in most of your quote left on the cutting floor. But not the Perron one. I have seen the stats of what you can expect from picks based upon draft position and any team would be hard pressed to get as good a player as Perron picking in the 16-25 position of the draft. It becomes a real crap shoot and worse and worse further into the draft.

That is not an endorsement or slam of the Pens' drafts, which we agree have been spotty at best. That is true for any team. And the draft pick even if he became as good, or better, than Perron would not do so most likely until Crosby and Malkin would be on the downhill of their careers.

So your points are fair. But the Perron deal was a poor example. It was the right move even given out likely first round exit, hence middling draft pick higher than our usual by five slots or so.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I agreed with your points in most of your quote left on the cutting floor. But not the Perron one. I have seen the stats of what you can expect from picks based upon draft position and any team would be hard pressed to get as good a player as Perron picking in the 16-25 position of the draft. It becomes a real crap shoot and worse and worse further into the draft.

That is not an endorsement or slam of the Pens' drafts, which we agree have been spotty at best. That is true for any team. And the draft pick even if he became as good, or better, than Perron would not do so most likely until Crosby and Malkin would be on the downhill of their careers.

So your points are fair. But the Perron deal was a poor example. It was the right move even given out likely first round exit, hence middling draft pick higher than our usual by five slots or so.

What you're not taking into account is chemistry, intangibles, size, speed...maybe the guy Edmonton takes with our pick would be a better FIT for either Crosby or Malkin than Perron is. And that is something stats cannot measure.

One could argue that we need a guy like Jordan Greenway (just one example) much more than David Perron. Malkin and Crosby may need him more.

The only way the Perron deal turns into a positive for us is if we fire the coach and get the offense going in the right direction again, and/or we trade someone and get back into the first round of this draft.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

What you're not taking into account is chemistry, intangibles, size, speed...maybe the guy Edmonton takes with our pick would be a better FIT for either Crosby or Malkin than Perron is. And that is something stats cannot measure.

One could argue that we need a guy like Jordan Greenway (just one example) much more than David Perron. Malkin and Crosby may need him more.

The only way the Perron deal turns into a positive for us is if we fire the coach and get the offense going in the right direction again, and/or we trade someone and get back into the first round of this draft.

Just agree to disagree with you on this one point. As I said I agreed with the majority of your post.

 

[The Greatest 101]

We could draft Jordan Greenway with our second round pick.Dude had an off year.

 

[Gooch]

I want someone who's career is on the rise, someone who thinks differently. I want someone who makes it a point to value long term success over short term gains. I want my new GM candidate to actively despise rental deals. I want someone to look to the draft for the top 6 and use free agency/waivers for the bottom 6. I want to see a GM make a conscious effort to sign guys long term BEFORE they get expensive. I basically want a moneyball kind of guy but obviously of the hockey variant.

I don't even know if such a person exists but that is what I want to see out of a new GM.

 

[Gooch]

What you're not taking into account is chemistry, intangibles, size, speed...maybe the guy Edmonton takes with our pick would be a better FIT for either Crosby or Malkin than Perron is. And that is something stats cannot measure.

One could argue that we need a guy like Jordan Greenway (just one example) much more than David Perron. Malkin and Crosby may need him more.

The only way the Perron deal turns into a positive for us is if we fire the coach and get the offense going in the right direction again, and/or we trade someone and get back into the first round of this draft.

What people also seem to forget is that Perron is already making his big money. One of the biggest advantages of drafting your own player if not the biggest is getting their production when they're on league minimum pay. Having a player making league minimum produce like a Perron would AND having the cap space to spend on a player who can also produce a good deal is better than simply having just one Perron.

 

[Mike Jones]

Yup.

This is like taking a seat and watching Nazi Germany and Russia fight it out.

A Kursk on you and your house.

 

[Shady Machine]

What people also seem to forget is that Perron is already making his big money. One of the biggest advantages of drafting your own player if not the biggest is getting their production when they're on league minimum pay. Having a player making league minimum produce like a Perron would AND having the cap space to spend on a player who can also produce a good deal is better than simply having just one Perron.

Do you think we could have drafted a 40-50 point winger that is NHL ready next year with the pick?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

What people also seem to forget is that Perron is already making his big money. One of the biggest advantages of drafting your own player if not the biggest is getting their production when they're on league minimum pay. Having a player making league minimum produce like a Perron would AND having the cap space to spend on a player who can also produce a good deal is better than simply having just one Perron.

Again, the scenerio you pain is the ideal, and goes to some of the truly ****ed up decisions that the Pens have made in the past when it came to trades, drafts, FAs, really anything front office related.

But in THIS one situation, really it is barking up the wrong tree to question. That is true for any organization, it was a good hockey trade. For the Pens who have left the forward cupboard bare? Even more so to patch up sins of the past.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

What people also seem to forget is that Perron is already making his big money. One of the biggest advantages of drafting your own player if not the biggest is getting their production when they're on league minimum pay. Having a player making league minimum produce like a Perron would AND having the cap space to spend on a player who can also produce a good deal is better than simply having just one Perron.

Even if you had a crystal ball you're still likely waiting 1-2 seasons minimum on the guy to be ready. In the mean time what do we do? That's assuming you don't just succumb to the crap shoot that is anything outside the top 5 and simply draft a bust.

We've been over this a million times. I don't know how many different ways there are to explain it. They trade away too many picks. We know this. At the same time they suck at drafting and any time could misfire on that pick anyways and then we're even more screwed. There, there's yet another way to say it.

 

[Kovifan27]

The problem we have now is we haven't drafted any of the forwards we need. Kap might be ready for some big minutes in another year or two but other then that what do we have? Bennett?

The plethora of D we have was supposed to address this and that plan has been scrapped and we trade youth for old rentals. Despres could have brought back a young forward prospect and a depth defenseman. The obsession with Lovejoy hurt the team.

If we want the forward depth we desire there will have to be trades of vets for picks/youth and hope that some of them develop. They also need to look at some of these guys from the KHL. I would rather spend 2million on an unknown risk vs Scuderi sucking it up on the back end again.

Run Letang/Maatta as the top pair and use Cole, Pouliot, Dumo, Harrington, Lovejoy to round it out any way they see fit. Use the money on forwards that can play D. The entire team would have to play the whole ice but that's not hard to get them to buy into if they are winning. The fans might have to deal with a year or two or crap but I'd much rather that then this constant parade of rentals because this is the year they win it all~

This isn't an overnight fix IMO.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Do you think we could have drafted a 40-50 point winger that is NHL ready next year with the pick?

Absolutely. This draft is rich with wingers of all makes and models. There will probably be between 10-15 2015 first rounders who get at least a 9-game trial next October.

 

[mpp9]

Absolutely. This draft is rich with wingers of all makes and models. There will probably be between 10-15 2015 first rounders who get at least a 9-game trial next October.

My money's on Perron being re-signed this summer and outperforming all of the wingers picked in the 15-20 range this fall.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Absolutely. This draft is rich with wingers of all makes and models. There will probably be between 10-15 2015 first rounders who get at least a 9-game trial next October.

You honestly believe we would have picked a guy who would have been a 50pt winger this fall with our 1st rounder? Really?

C'mon man. Deep draft or not, the odds are pretty horrible of that happening. Especially on this team.

-edit- Words.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

My money's on Perron being re-signed this summer and outperforming all of the wingers picked in the 15-20 range this fall.

Hopefully you're right. Hopefully the coach gets canned.

 

[mpp9]

Hopefully you're right. Hopefully the coach gets canned.

I think he's a perfectly capable coach, but I do wonder with where this league is headed with obstruction. MJ does not seem like a guy who can work the refs and obviously is learning the "nuances" of interference in the NHL, as we all are at the moment.

Babcock would be awesome for many reasons, but also b/c he's the current head coach of Zetterberg, one of the biggest cheats in the game.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

The fact that this series is even close is a credit to Johnston. He's done well tactically and has gotten a poorly-constructed team (which isn't on him) that looked dead in the water for a month plus to show real signs of life. I thought down the stretch they may well have quit on him, but this round has me thinking otherwise.

I'd still like for the Penguins to go for Babcock, but getting him is basically the only circumstance in which I think firing Johnston would be merited.

 

[Penguinator]

I think he's a perfectly capable coach, but I do wonder with where this league is headed with obstruction. MJ does not seem like a guy who can work the refs and obviously is learning the "nuances" of interference in the NHL, as we all are at the moment.

Babcock would be awesome for many reasons, but also b/c he's the current head coach of Zetterberg, one of the biggest cheats in the game.

One of the best posts i've ever read here. Hands down.

... and some folks talk about getting the nets bigger.

 

[Crosberry87]

We are the worst run franchise in the league.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

We are the worst run franchise in the league.

People who genuinely believe this should really find a new hobby.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

People who genuinely believe this should really find a new hobby.

The only reason why he's wrong is because Toronto, Edmonton and Buffalo are also in the league.

Still doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies inside, though.

 

[Jackpot Jaret]

I'd love for the Penguins to draft Connor Garland from the Moncton Wildcats. Hes small (like Petan, etc), but very talented. I believe he still has room to grow, he set records with the Cats this year. Won the QMJHL scoring title, American born. Projected as a 3rd rounder

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

The only reason why he's wrong is because Toronto, Edmonton and Buffalo are also in the league.

Still doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies inside, though.

I mean, the list starts with every team that actually loses money. That's what really defines a bad franchise.

If you want to talk about front offices/ownership, there's the teams you listed, Arizona, Philadelphia, New Jersey, San Jose, Carolina, Ottawa...arguably Boston.