Proposal: Rumours and Proposals Thread: Seriously Chia. We need wingers

[Spawn]

Schmaltz who was cheaper just went unclaimed. Not sure why Benning all of a sudden holds some sort of value. Guy really has done nothing.

Schmaltz is cheaper, but he's also not an NHLer. There is a big difference between a 25 year old with 42 career games who has shown nothing in the slightest at the NHL level and a 24 year old approaching 200 games of relatively consistent bottom pairing play where he scores at a 20 point pace each season and is able to keep his head above water at 5v5.

Benning might have the occasional terrible game. But by and large he's been remarkably consistent for 2.5 years of NHL hockey.

I don't agree with Steven on much, but he's right on Benning imo. He's a decent bottom pairing d-man who can go out there and play ~15 minutes a night and on most nights end up even or ahead.

 

[t0nedeff]

Schmaltz is cheaper, but he's also not an NHLer. There is a big difference between a 25 year old with 42 career games who has shown nothing in the slightest at the NHL level and a 24 year old approaching 200 games of relatively consistent bottom pairing play where he scores at a 20 point pace each season and is able to keep his head above water at 5v5.

Benning might have the occasional terrible game. But by and large he's been remarkably consistent for 2.5 years of NHL hockey.

I don't agree with Steven on much, but he's right on Benning imo. He's a decent bottom pairing d-man who can go out there and play ~15 minutes a night and on most nights end up even or ahead.

I think you meant the occasional okay game where he isn't terrible.

 

[Spawn]

I think you meant the occasional okay game where he isn't terrible.

The stats don't back this up. And imo, a less biased "eye test" doesn't either.

Some posters, yourself included, have spent the better part of 2 years railing on the player every play, every game. You're blind to this player.

 

[joestevens29]

Schmaltz is cheaper, but he's also not an NHLer. There is a big difference between a 25 year old with 42 career games who has shown nothing in the slightest at the NHL level and a 24 year old approaching 200 games of relatively consistent bottom pairing play where he scores at a 20 point pace each season and is able to keep his head above water at 5v5.

Benning might have the occasional terrible game. But by and large he's been remarkably consistent for 2.5 years of NHL hockey.

I don't agree with Steven on much, but he's right on Benning imo. He's a decent bottom pairing d-man who can go out there and play ~15 minutes a night and on most nights end up even or ahead.

He's just another typical bottom pairing guy. Very interchangeable. He can stay or go I really don't care as they should be able to replace him quite easily. I just don't think around the league he has much more value than the other guys we just picked up.

There is just too many bottom pairing guys available right now. If the Oilers were to trade Benning their best value would be finding out what teams wanted him when he signed out of College.

 

[joestevens29]

I literally just posted the data. This isn't an opinion, it's an objective fact that 75% of top 4 defencemen as of January of last year who were drafted out of the CHL had played at least 41 NHL games by the end of their age 21 season. 50% of those guys played 41 games before they even turned 21.

You can post exceptions all you want but it would be ridiculous to make decisions that run counter to the majority of cases because of a few outliers. More teams need to start cutting these guys loose earlier and getting some value out of them before they become completely worthless tbh.

And I'm saying if you just give up after 4 years you are going to get stung. You just don't quit on a guy after 4 years of development. Not unless you had him for 4 years and he's never shown improvement.

 

[Consultant]

No more Chia trades.
Everything can wait until this idiot gets fired.
How he still has a job is the biggest mystery in professional sport right now.
Shameful Bobby Nick's, get that burger out of your face and start interviewing replacements...

 

[Da McBomb]

You would figure that a GM who was trying to save his job would actually make deals that would help his club and his situation.. instead, he makes dumb trades. And Katz and Nicholson continues to sit on their hands and let this madman make deals.. pathetic. Are they really that blind to the plight of the fanbase?

 

[StevenF1919]

And I'm saying if you just give up after 4 years you are going to get stung. You just don't quit on a guy after 4 years of development. Not unless you had him for 4 years and he's never shown improvement.

Chances are that if they aren't good enough to play in the NHL 5 years after their draft year, they never will be. It's smarter to play the percentages and get value out of guys who will likely never amount to anything and take your lumps when you're wrong rather than getting stuck with nothing after they bust.

Sports teams in general seem to have a tough time moving guys at the right time. It's a bit tougher to quantify value in the NHL but in European soccer you frequently see mid-table teams hold on to players for too long. In Italy alone, teams who don't have a lot of cash (Lazio with Milinkovic-Savic, Torino with Belotti) have lost hundreds of millions these last couple seasons after not selling their stars at the right time. If teams can start optimizing when to let guys go, they can minimize the damage of their poor drafting and maximize the value of their players.

The Islanders have done a good job of this recently (thanks Pete) when they cut Reinhart and Strome loose and got a king's ransom for two nothing players. It's too soon to judge now (especially since Schmaltz is now out for the season) but the Coyotes might have pulled off a similar steal in getting a legit top 6 guy back for a busting Strome.

 

[t0nedeff]

The stats don't back this up. And imo, a less biased "eye test" doesn't either.

Some posters, yourself included, have spent the better part of 2 years railing on the player every play, every game. You're blind to this player.

Because he's terrible. You could go through literally every gdt this year that he has played in and I guarantee you'll see more than me bitching about all the turn overs he creates against himself that lead to goals or grade A chances against. You're the one who is blind to the player ignore all the visual cues you see during the games he actually plays and scream stats because he gets propped up by putting the majority of his points up when its Drai/Mcdavid doing all the work to put the puck in the net and than you come here and scream stats like its actually indicative of his on ice play. The guy is being scratched for f***ing Petrovic right now so it seems Hitchcock has a similar feeling towards the player.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Chances are that if they aren't good enough to play in the NHL 5 years after their draft year, they never will be. It's smarter to play the percentages and get value out of guys who will likely never amount to anything and take your lumps when you're wrong rather than getting stuck with nothing after they bust.

Sports teams in general seem to have a tough time moving guys at the right time. It's a bit tougher to quantify value in the NHL but in European soccer you frequently see mid-table teams hold on to players for too long. In Italy alone, teams who don't have a lot of cash (Lazio with Milinkovic-Savic, Torino with Belotti) have lost hundreds of millions these last couple seasons after not selling their stars at the right time. If teams can start optimizing when to let guys go, they can minimize the damage of their poor drafting and maximize the value of their players.

The Islanders have done a good job of this recently (thanks Pete) when they cut Reinhart and Strome loose and got a king's ransom for two nothing players. It's too soon to judge now (especially since Schmaltz is now out for the season) but the Coyotes might have pulled off a similar steal in getting a legit top 6 guy back for a busting Strome.

Strome has 14 points in 21 games since the trade. Just needed a change of scenery I think.

 

[Spawn]

Because he's terrible. You could go through literally every gdt this year that he has played in and I guarantee you'll see more than me *****ing about all the turn overs he creates against himself that lead to goals or grade A chances against. You're the one who is blind to the player ignore all the visual cues you see during the games he actually plays and scream stats because he gets propped up by putting the majority of his points up when its Drai/Mcdavid doing all the work to put the puck in the net and than you come here and scream stats like its actually indicative of his on ice play. The guy is being scratched for ****ing Petrovic right now so it seems Hitchcock has a similar feeling towards the player.

Where am I screaming about stats? Or anything regarding Benning for that matter? Since day one you've had a bizarre vendetta against the player. Makes it impossible to take anything you say about him seriously.

 

[North]

Nope. I responded half seriously to a guy posting a backhanded chirp towards Chiarelli, stating that something might make sense if we're trying to improve the team today. Trading Matt Benning and clearing the $1.9m owed to him next season for a UFA Jordan Eberle--who I also mentioned would need to be retained--and a swap of poorly trending prospects.

That's the descriptive version of the initial post you responded to, saying that the value was off. The exchange since then has had almost nothing to do about how I liked a prospect in junior.

However, you do seem to take offense to the idea that I still like the prospect in question. So much as to believe that trading a negatively valued asset in Matthew Benning would somehow be 'fair' in exchange for a former top five pick currently posting a PPG in the AHL that can simply be walked away from at season's end.

Please, just stop. Go back and read this from the beginning if you feel inclined to push forward. You missed something very early on.

I’m not going to stop because you’ve accused people of overvaluing our prospects when you’re overvaluing an Islanders one who is older and less skilled.

You’re so far off base on this one just because of your bias towards a shitty Isles prospect that you’re willing to undervalue our prospect to get the one you want.

Benning may be negative value but you’re kidding yourself if you think Dal Colle is worth much more than him.

You won’t listen to anything. You want Dal Colle and you’re okay with losing a trade to get him.

 

[t0nedeff]

Where am I screaming about stats? Or anything regarding Benning for that matter? Since day one you've had a bizarre vendetta against the player. Makes it impossible to take anything you say about him seriously.

You literally said the stats don't back up the fact that he is trash when he is on the ice. It was literally the first thing you said. Vendetta? God forbid I want dman that is actually capable of not being a complete liability every time he is on the ice. Yeah lets wait until the next game he gets to draw into and see the post after post of people besides me bashing him cause he's made mistake after mistake that leads to a goal or great chance against.

 

[StevenF1919]

Strome has 14 points in 21 games since the trade. Just needed a change of scenery I think.

His skating is still terrible. If I had to choose between him and Schmaltz I take Schmaltz any day.

 

[Spawn]

You literally said the stats don't back up the fact that he is trash when he is on the ice. It was literally the first thing you said. Vendetta? God forbid I want dman that is actually capable of not being a complete liability every time he is on the ice. Yeah lets wait until the next game he gets to draw into and see the post after post of people besides me bashing him cause he's made mistake after mistake that leads to a goal or great chance against.

You don't get it.

 

[StevenF1919]

You literally said the stats don't back up the fact that he is trash when he is on the ice. It was literally the first thing you said. Vendetta? God forbid I want dman that is actually capable of not being a complete liability every time he is on the ice. Yeah lets wait until the next game he gets to draw into and see the post after post of people besides me bashing him cause he's made mistake after mistake that leads to a goal or great chance against.

Benning is a +20 at 5v5 over the past 3 seasons.

 

[belair]

I’m not going to stop because you’ve accused people of overvaluing our prospects when you’re overvaluing an Islanders one who is older and less skilled.

You’re so far off base on this one just because of your bias towards a ****ty Isles prospect that you’re willing to undervalue our prospect to get the one you want.

Benning may be negative value but you’re kidding yourself if you think Dal Colle is worth much more than him.

You won’t listen to anything. You want Dal Colle and you’re okay with losing a trade to get him.

It's like you're not even reading my post. Go away.

 

[North]

It's like you're not even reading my post. Go away.

Your posts are nonsense when it comes to limited prospects that you covet and are willing to overpay for the honour of playing them in Bakersfield.

 

[belair]

Your posts are nonsense when it comes to limited prospects that you covet and are willing to overpay for the honour of playing them in Bakersfield.

The only nonsense in this exchange is the argument you think is happening.

I've stated very clearly multiple times that the prospect in question has minimal value. The only trade proposal I've mentioned in this exchange is the one I mentioned in the previous post that you completely ignored. The most valuable piece coming back in that deal would be Jordan Eberle. Is he going to play in Bakersfield?

 

[MaxR11]

this might have been stated earlier in the thread but i wouldn't be surprised if the oil go and acquire wayne simmonds.

 

[belair]

Benning is a +20 at 5v5 over the past 3 seasons.

And he would clear waivers.

 

[Homesick]

Maybe they are willing to if it results in a special player, just not sure who is out there that they'd unload their 1st for. Unless part of the deal is unloading Sekera as well.

I proposed Sekera(hypothetically retiring due to injuries) Lucic, Spooner, 1st, Bear and Yamamoto for Stone(rental) and Ryan.
Over payment for a rental but we end up with a better player on a shorter term(yes 1.5m higher) and jettison Lucic.
Might have some interest from Ottawa(mainly Melnyk)
- Sekeras contract would help them get to the cap floor while costing zero real dollars
- Lucic is owed 19m for 4 more seasons and Ryan is owed 22.5m over the next 3 seasons
- Lucic would cost 5m to buyout in June vs 11m for Ryan.

I'm looking at this as an 80% financial trade, 20% hockey trade, and 100% fantasy

 

[StevenF1919]

And he would clear waivers.

No he wouldn't.

 

[belair]

No he wouldn't.

As a $1.9m bottom pair defenseman for another season, he absolutely would.

The only way a team would value what he brings over the salary commitment is if they're able to send similar money back.

I'm not saying we should waive him. But he would clear waivers.

 

[joestevens29]

Strome has 14 points in 21 games since the trade. Just needed a change of scenery I think.

Arizona is a team in shambles. Make too many moves based on stats and keep spinning their tires. They also moved Domi far too quickly, although Galchenyuk isn't horrid for them.

Very similar issue to what we do with young players. Play them with little insulation. Although at least we have three really good centers.